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applestar
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Re: About Carbaryl (Sevin) insecticide.

Here’s another thread for your reference: :arrow: Subject: Please read before you spray poisons! INFO SEVIN (carbaryl)

As gardeners, it’s very important to do your homework so you can make an informed decision/choice. This is a good time to read up on these kinds of information, before the gardening season gets into full swing.

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Gary350
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My Grandparents used Sevin, my parents used Sevin, many years ago I used Sevin but not anymore. I do not trust anyone or anything anymore especially big business and the government. If there is $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to be made people with say or do anything.

imafan26
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None of the organophosphates are kind to beneficial insects. The only reason carbaryl and malathion are still on the market,
(Malation 50 isprogramactually half of the strength it used to be), is because they have a lower toxic index or LD50 (lower numbers mean they are more toxic); are relatively short acting, and are low risk to humans if used according to the label. These products are safer for non target species compared to other things, most of which have been withdrawn from the market like dursban, dibrom, diazinon, DDT, etc. This list included not just man made synthetics but also organic pesticides like rotenone and nicotine. Pyrethrins, while organic are pretty toxic as well especially in combination with other chemicals that extend their effects. It is also highly toxic to fish.
https://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/ex ... s-ext.html

Agriculture uses pesticides to protect their crops, but to get a pesticide license to use the better chemicals, you have to take pesticide safety classes, have OSHA rules to follow to protect both people and the environment. Farmers do want their products to pass FDA inspection and not be pulled off the market because of high pesticide levels in their products.

Commercial users are more likely than homeowners to actually use IPM.. monitor their fields for pest levels, select resistant varieties, and because chemicals are expensive they will use the product that works the best and cost the least and to make sure the crop is safe for market, they usually will not spray crops close to market. The food sold through commercially inspected sources are generally safe and test well below accepted levels.

The ones you really have to worry about are not the farmers, but the homeowners, who are not required to take any classes or have a license to purchase any non regulated pesticides. Homeowners notoriously don't read the labels and some of them don't even know most labels peel open with more information inside. Much of what is on the label is required by law, and the label is the law, but it is a lot of small print and many people don't take the time or follow the directions as they should. They don't measure when they mix, don't wear the proper gear, or launder them properly, and they spray everything. Homeowners rarely do any monitoring, while they may look for a pest after they see damage, they see the sooty mold but not the aphids or scale. Instead of choosing the least toxic method that does the job, they reach for a spray that will kill everything. What is on the market is much weaker than other products and very few organophosphates are left available to homeowners. Most stores actually try to stock mostly organic pesticides because that is what the public wants and they are trying to be more environmentally friendly.
https://news.aces.illinois.edu/news/goi ... unterparts
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-science-a ... de-program

Most homeowners and agriculture don't rotate crops and plant the same things year after year. If there is crop rotation it is often limited and while they may rotate crops with the seasons, they usually plant the same things at the same time of year every year, which is an open invitation to pest to keep coming back, same time next year. To keep any pest control program effective, you really need to use a combination of things including monitoring, roguing, isolation and control of alternate hosts, selective and non selective controls. To keep pests from becoming resistant, chemicals should be rotated along with the crops. Predators need to be preserved as much as possible which means providing food (pests), habitat, and limiting use of chemicals of all kinds.

I have used Sevin in the past, but have not used it in years, mainly because I have encouraged a healthy garden patrol to take care of the pests instead. I don't have 100% control, but if all of the pests were eliminated, my beneficial insects and lizards would go somewhere else because there would not be anything for them to eat. They do keep most things in control well enough that I can get a reasonable harvest by inspecting plants every time I work in the garden, using mostly water to knock off most pests, cutting back and removing heavily infested plants, and in some cases there are some plants I can't plant for a while until the pest pressure backs off. I still have to treat roses and hibiscus since they are hard to protect from diseases and erineum mites on the hibiscus. I treat them seasonally, and not all year, but my alternative is to get rid of the plants entirely. The one thing I use a lot is slug and snail bait, and that is a losing battle mainly because I have a lot of rain, potted plants and no real predators.

Would I use Sevin again? I don't know. Right now, the less toxic controls are working. However, if a new pest appears that does significant damage (which can happen when aliens are accidentally introduced in an environment without predators), I'd like to have some options.

I don't think any product is inherently bad. Synthetic or organic products can be equally damaging to non-target organisms if they are improperly used. It is not the product but the people who must act responsibly by doing their homework and selecting the least toxic method, apply the method or product correctly to limit runoff and contamination, and be vigilant but practical and not consider every critter an enemy that must be eradicated. Mother nature usually has a purpose for everything, however, I still can't figure out what roaches are good for.

Rory
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Apparently I haven't figured out how to post right since first one vanished. Anyway, I use sevin when I need to. I will use DE when there is no rain in forecast and watering won't be pressing. Honeybees are not native species to begin with and North America apparently did fine before they arrived. Plenty of pollinators out there.

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rainbowgardener
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Would you consider reading the Sevin post at the link applestar gave above? Even if you don't care about honeybees, there are plenty of other reasons to avoid Sevin. Also please note that all though honeybees are the ones most studied and reported on due to their commercial value, when a report says "severely toxic to honeybees," it is pretty well guaranteed to wipe out all the native bees and a lot of other pollinators as well. Many ground-nesting species, such as squash bees, long-horned bees, mining bees, and sweat bees,construct their nests in the midst of annual and perennial crop fields. Poisonings may disproportionately affect smaller bee species. Most label guidelines only report toxicity to honeybees even though smaller bees may be harmed by correspondingly smaller doses of pesticides. And beehives can be moved or covered before spraying insecticides. It is very difficult to protect wild bees. The problem with poisons like Sevin and others is that they are broad spectrum, not discriminating, and they kill most insects and many other species.

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applestar
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Ooh rainbowgardener has pointed out my pet peeve. Even when you read the label and the instructions, they focus on exactly what the product is effective against — listing enemy pests that are familiar to gardeners ... but then the consumers might overlook that RELATED harmless bystanders and even BENEFICIAL insects would also be affected (poisoned, killed). Same with what specific organisms might be harmed — think of related organisms or that live in same environment that are not mentioned. Honeybees and native bees and wasps are good example... what about beetles/bugs and lady beetles/bugs? Gypsy moths, etc pest moths and Monarch butterflies?

So it’s also important that gardeners know who their friends are, and know who the black sheep in their families are that they are trying to get rid of.

Once you start doing this, it’s easier to question the label and look for and recognize other missing holes in their descriptions. There have been times that the inactive ingredients/carriers have caused additional or greater harm.

Note that same can be said for HERBICIDES as well as PESTICIDES.

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jal_ut
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Thank you all for your responses to my thread.

kimberlymotley
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My fiance is currently on my $%#& list. He apparently put Sevin dust on my garden last night. On top of obvious reasons I do not want my plants exposed to it I am especially concerned that they will not be pollinated since the dust kills pollinators. Does anyone know how to remove this from my garden! please help!

kimberlymotley
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any tips on how to remove it from a garden it was applied to by mistake?



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