weed b gone = TOXIC?

[danagardenfairy]

I moved into a city house (from the country). I have been preparing to transplant our indoor plants to an outdoor garden... I have 3-5 inch sprouts right now. (have done this before at the other house)

THE PROBLEM: My lawn in my new house had a severe weed/dandelion problem. The home store that I went to advised me to spray the lawn with WEED B GONE. I bought into it... and filled my lawn with this toxic juice. I have realized that I will be tilling up a section of the lawn, now, to transplant my veggies!!!! I called ORTHO and they told me that the yard would not be ready to grow food gardens forONE YEAR!!!! OMG!

SOLUTION??? MAYBE???? I was thinking that I would put plastic over a section of the yard and raising a bed... bring in new dirt...

QUESTION: Do you think that this will still seep in the toxins? What do you suggest??? Am I stuck to a container garden this year??? HEEEELP!

[Kisal]

Well, I would container garden, but then, that's what I do anyway, just because I like it. It's a lot easier on my old back.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Raised bed at a minimum, but Kisal probably has the right idea...

Dana, come see us next time. We won't let you do stuff like that... we'll look out for you...

HG

[danagardenfairy]

Well, containers it is!!!??? Never done this before... will I have problems with the roots rotting? I remeber a friend of mine had a heck of a time with the containers starting out great... but then a month later the roots had rotted? WHY... I don't know why???

And got any pointers, or special web sites? I am an art teacher... and hence, VERY visual... would love to see pix!

Thanks, again. You guys have been great! ~Dana

[Gary350]

I think spring rain, summer rain, fall rain and winter snow melt will help to wash away the toxic chemical. If you cover the ground with plastic it will keep the rain from doing its job.

[The Helpful Gardener]

But keeps the roots out contact, G...

Tried to get the info on the Scott's site, but they want you to contact them to get an MSDS sheet, instead of just giving you the info. "Beware he who controls your access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master"...Here's a good site to check this sort of thing out...

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00022800334&DIST_NR=000239

Not me, brutha...

HG

[cynthia_h]

Roots will rot in the ground or in a container if the drainage isn't sufficient. Often, in the ground, this can happen if there's a clay layer close to the surface and (for instance) successive heavy storms saturate the top layer of soil, where the plants' roots are.

Containers are less susceptible to flooding, whether they're pots or raised beds, because--well--their soil level is above that of the surrounding soil. But the pots MUST have drainage holes! Please make sure that any pots/planters you use have holes for drainage. You can use hardware cloth or small terra cotta potsherds or small rocks to keep critters from coming into the pots, but the water needs to be able to find a way out.

Mel Bartholomew's Square Foot Gardening has tons of photos and shows you how to build raised beds according to his methods. There are many other sources, too; your local public library probably has DVDs/videos on gardening, as well as books, but Mel's is a book I have personally read and can recommend.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[TZ -OH6]

Since you already nuked the weeds, you might want to go ahead and nuke the grasses with Roundup, till up the area, ammend it and eventually plant a cover crop of winter rye to get the soil ready for next year. Giving the dormant weed seeds a chance to sprout by tilling this year will cut down on next year's weeds.

I think the cocktail in Weed be Gone has a fast, medium and slow decay herbicide in it, and it is the slow decay one that takes a couple of months to be broken down by soil microbes. Oxygenating the soil by tilling and adding organic ammendments should help speed up the decay process of that herbicide. As long as the covercrop is a grass it should not be affected as long as there is not some germination inhibitor in the cocktail. You can look up each of the active herbicide ingredients on the internet and get a fact sheet which tells you residual times, affect of human consumption (can you eat corn grown on soil nuked by that broad leaf herbicide etc).

[The Helpful Gardener]

So TZ, do you think Round-Up is safe around food?

Not me...

http://eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/JPR/JPR_02.htm

Not to mention the prime breakdown element of glyphosate, aminomethylphosphonic acid (AMPA) has been shown to damage the liver in testing...and it will stick around AND show up in veggies grown a year later...

http://www.ofa.org.au/papers//glyphosatereview.htm

http://www.guarding-our-earth.com/aggrand/roundup.htm

Perhaps you thought the government was testing this stuff to be sure it's safe? Sort of.

http://www.nrdc.org/media/2008/080116b.asp

http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/health_pesticides.asp

but money talks...

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press-center/releases2/greenpeace-analysis-sheds-ligh

http://www.newsday.com/topic/la-me-epa29feb29,0,7000516.story?page=1

Fact sheets, or MSDS sheets are generated by the company that makes the product, and even the EPA testing is often done by the same scientists who developed the product...

http://www.cspinet.org/integrity/press/200412091.html

So before you use (or recommend using) chemicals around food crops, stop and think. We have been doing very bad things to our environment, ourselves and most importantly, our children (who are far more suceptible with the lower body mass, permeable skin and hand to mouth tendencies). Stop and think long and hard because what you don't know (and what you think you do) might well harm, or even kill you or someone you love.

HG

[danagardenfairy]

Thank you all for the information.

TZ: I think I will try the winter rye plan... I am from the Central Ohio area, too; when do you think I should plant this rye?

Scott: I really loved the articles... very eye-opening... I feel ashamed for having even done this to my yard and now realize the wide-spread problem, as I watch all my neighbors spray their yards down, too.

So, I did get the suggested books on container gardening. I am going to be actually planting most of my garden into PLASTIC containers that I was given from a large restaurant chain-- so that I may re-use them instead of them being trashed or recycled. I am still working on developing a plan for all of my veggies.

Two more questions:

1. What do you suggest I do with my dandelion problem. I mow my neighbor's yard (he is disabled) and he cannot afford to treat his lawn, so his dandelions are spreading all over my yard. I am allergic to bees... and I love that they do thier jobs, but when they are under my feet when I walk, I really fear that one is going to get me when I am walking! This happened to me once before... How do I treat the danadelions, yet keep the yard "safe" for my dog? Any specific product?

2. I was thinking of getting something to help me catch the water (waterbarrel) from our rains to help save on money. (our water is really expensive) Is anyone currently using a pump and hose to help draw water from a rainbarrel?

Thanks again, Dana

[!potatoes!]

hose yes, pump no. if the barrel is set a bit up off the ground (or higher up a hill if that's your situation) gravity will do the work...slowly.

[cynthia_h]

The most important thing with dandelions is to prevent the flowers from distributing seeds with their puffballs.

It's still early in the season in Ohio, so you most likely have young dandelions springing up, and no flowers yet. The young plants can be removed thoroughly and inexpensively, as I babbled about yesterday at:

http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... hp?t=10366

Start with the dandelions in your own yard and then work back into your neighbor's as you're able.

Is this a reel mower or a power mower, though, that you use? If it's a power mower, you're just throwing bits of dandelion right back on your own property, so it will, in the long run, add to your dandelion burden.

I'm allergic to bees, too (I've been told that the next sting will be the LAST sting, if you get what I mean...), and I've never been bothered by bees when weeding dandelions. The bees are much more interested in my lavender and valerian (a naturally occurring sort-of wildflower in my soil) than they are in dandelions. Even the bumblebees prefer the lavender and valerian.

If the dandelions get ahead of you this year, just pick off their flowers when those show up, and worry about the roots when you can get to them.

Cynthia

[cynthia_h]

More on my success and techniques vs. dandelions at:

http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... hp?p=68550

and I also posted a link to the weeder / dandelion fork / whatever its name is in that same thread.

Don't pay over $6 or so for this incredibly useful garden tool, but expect it to be well made and sturdy. I got my replacements at my local Ace Hardware.

Cynthia

[The Helpful Gardener]

Cynthia, your tool is an asparagus fork and that's what I used until I found this...

http://www.hound-dog.com/weed_hound.htm

We have two!

HG

[cynthia_h]

Looks fun! Will it get dandelions out between cracks in pavement? (or other tap-rooted weeds like redstem filaree, mallow, etc.)

That's what's fun about my weed stick /asparagus fork--I can wedge it into a pavement crack about 1/2 inch (just over 1 cm) and pop the weed out. What is the clearance on your fun little guy?

And I didn't see a price range on the Hound, either. Is there an approx. $ range?

Thx! I think most of us with these frustrating plants appreciate all the non-toxic help we can get...

Cynthia

[The Helpful Gardener]

It's about twenty bucks (a little more than the fork) and it can't do cracks as the circular head wouldn't fit (so don't lose the asparagus fork), but it is WAY faster in open lawn, and it is kinda fun...

HG

[rainbowgardener]

I know we must have had some discussions around here about why not to use Round up, but I couldn't actually find much. So I'm attaching this to this thread, because it had the most information on the topic.

Just thought interested people might want to see this:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... _21645.cfm

research linking glyphosate to birth defects in humans and animals.

The lab research was done with "doses far lower than those used in agricultural spraying and well below maximum residue levels in products presently approved in the European Union. "

the lab research was triggered by findings of increased levels of birth defects in humans when glyphosate spraying was initiated.

"reports of high rates of birth defects in rural areas of Argentina where Monsanto's genetically modified "Roundup Ready" (RR) soybeans are grown in large monocultures sprayed from airplanes regularly. RR soy is engineered to tolerate Roundup, allowing farmers to spray the herbicide liberally to kill weeds while the crop is growing."

[soil]

What do you suggest I do with my dandelion problem. I mow my neighbor's yard (he is disabled) and he cannot afford to treat his lawn, so his dandelions are spreading all over my yard. I am allergic to bees... and I love that they do thier jobs, but when they are under my feet when I walk, I really fear that one is going to get me when I am walking! This happened to me once before... How do I treat the danadelions, yet keep the yard "safe" for my dog? Any specific product?

if he doesnt treat his yard with chemicals and its not downhill from your lawn. you can eat them and use them. they are very nutritious and have medicinal properties. cut the blooms as soon as you see them and eat them too, or make dandelion wine. cut the young leaves and steam them before eating or toss in some soup.