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StevePots
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Massive leaf damage on Pepper plants.

Over the last 3 days I noticed something damaging my pepper plant's leaves. The damage is on the bottom of the leaves, See photos.
We had two days of rain and I was hoping it would keep the bugs off but no such luck. They just came back with a vengeance last night.
I did spray the plants with a light coating of diluted Ivory soap. But it did nothing to deter whatever is eating my plants up.
Took a look this morning and found leaves and flower buds on the ground.
You all have any thoughts?
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rainbowgardener
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That's an odd kind of damage and I'm not sure what is doing it.

But I can tell you that spraying soap solution on the leaves accomplishes nothing (except possibly harming your plants, if it was actually detergent). The soap solution only works against soft bodied insects like aphids, mealybugs, spider mites etc. and it only works on contact. It has no residual effect when dried on the leaves. The soap when sprayed ON the insect works to disrupt the cell membranes and remove the protective waxes that cover the insect, causing death through excess loss of water.

You need to figure out what pest you have to know how to treat it. Maybe someone else here will recognize that damage. But you can do a thorough search, including coming out at dusk and again after dark with a flashlight.

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StevePots
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rainbowgardener wrote:That's an odd kind of damage and I'm not sure what is doing it..
Hi and thanks for your response.
The weird thing is that there are no bugs on the plants day or night. (Well not that I see) I have been keeping an eye on the plants for a few days now. It is as if the bugs make a getaway when they see me. lol
My Spearmint right next the peppers and the Mysore Raspberry are doing well with no damage. Even the Sunflower sprouts are unaffected. What ever it is loves my pepper plants and no other. Sucky part is the plants just made flower buds and those are all dropping off along with the new leaves.

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StevePots
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Update. What ever this is feeds at night. I know this because I went to check on the plants late last night and the air was full of the pepper plant's sent. It was as if you just crushed the leaves in your hand and sniffed them. The smell was quite strong. Inspecting the plants I noticed fresh damage and more leaves on the ground.

Looked at the plats this morning and the plants are worse than last night so the bugs came back and finished their meal after I left.

At this rate I don't think these plants will survive the weekend.

This morning I saw a spider's web between three of the pepper plants. Hopefully the spider will make a meal out of whatever has made a meal out of my pepper plants. Circle of life and all that.

imafan26
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My guess is that whatever is eating your plants is hiding out in the soil during the day.

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StevePots
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Looks like I'm dealing with Thrips
Found this image online. Image

That is what my pepper plants look like. The plants aborting their unopened flower buds and new leaves droping are also symptoms of Thrips.

As a beginner I made several big mistakes. For starters, I have no predators and no predator friendly plants. I mistakenly used green leaves as mulch to save my peppers from the heat. The leaves and stems were from plants outside of my garden. Basically I put dinner on the table and brought my guests to the table.

Cleaned up the garden today. Changed all leaf mulch for pine bark chips and started treating plants with canola oil (for now). I ordered diatomaceous earth to sprinkle on the soil and neem oil for the leaves. I also bought some Dill seeds, Borage seeds. Anis seeds, Chervil seeds, Catnip seeds and Fennel seeds so that I can attract some beneficial insects.

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rainbowgardener
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Wow! Sounds like you have done your homework. I think you are right on all counts. I should have thought about thrips.

So yes, a dry mulch is better than green. If you are spraying with oil, be sure you get not only the undersides of the leaves, but the nodes where the petiole (leaf stalk) attaches to the stem.

Yes, in the long run what you really need is a garden in balance with beneficial insects and the plants that help attract them and maintain habitat for them in all their phases. All the carrot family plants are good for that, that includes the dill, anise, chervil, and fennel plants you mentioned and also angelica, caraway, coriander, parsley, carrots and Queen Anne's lace and others -- WHEN THEY FLOWER. These are useful for small beneficial insects, because they have flowers that have nectar in tiny florets. If you have one or two varieties from carrot family, you don't need to have them all. But you need to have a variety including other families. Mint family plants are good, including the catnip, but also regular mints (e.g. spearmint), pennyroyal, lemon balm, other culinary herbs like basil, oregano, sage, thyme. Some of the most frequently mentioned plants for beneficial insects are yarrow, tansy, alyssum, marigold, lavender, and milkweed/ butterfly weed.

So what you are looking for is a good variety of flowers for beneficial insects, representing several different families and blooming over different parts of the season and allowing the herbs to flower. Borage (aka bees bread ) is good for honeybees and other pollinators. I haven't seen it on the list of plants for predatory insects, but you certainly need pollinators also. If you have a variety of these flowers, you will have many benefits. Your garden will be beautiful! :D It will draw in and nurture many beneficials, not only the ones that will help control your thrips; but also parasitic mini-wasps that will help control things like tomato hornworm, cabbage worms, and other such larval pests; tachnid flies that help control not only the caterpillar type pests, but stinkbugs, squash bugs, and beetles; hoverflies that help control aphids, mealybugs, and others. And you will be supporting monarch butterflies, swallowtail butterflies and a number of other butterflies. AND you will have lots of herbs for yourself - culinary herbs, herbal teas, medicinals.

But this is a longer term project. Now is not even the right time to be planting seeds, here in the heat of summer. Some of these could be planted later in the summer, maybe a month from now, for the fall. Some will need to wait for spring. In the meantime, to get a little start on this project, you could check out a good local nursery (NOT big box store) and buy yourself a few transplants of things like mint, marigold, lavender, culinary herbs.

Along with the flowers, your habitat needs to include water. Bird baths are good, especially with a few rocks in them to hold little splashes of water. A shallow flat water container at ground level is also helpful. Birds are also your friends in this project and having some bird feeders will help keep birds in your garden. And of course, don't spray any poisons! No point in trying to attract beneficial insects if you are just going to poison them. Poisons generally are much more effective against the beneficials/ predators which are much fewer in numbers than their prey and have slower generations.

In the meantime, the Neem oil is helpful for controlling a number of leaf-eaters and small soft bodied insects like your thrips. The diatomaceous earth (DE) is less likely to be harmful to the thrips, but is effective against a variety of crawlers including slugs and snails, ants, beetles, caterpillars. I use it against the slugs, except that it needs to be reapplied after rain and we have had nothing but rain this summer, so I gave up. But the DE can also be harmful to those beneficials, so put it on the soil around your plants, put it in those leaf nodes, but try to avoid getting it on your flowers. Any insect control measure is best used as spot treatment for where you see the problems, not broadcast around your garden.

Congratulations, on getting started on a whole new way of gardening - gardening with Nature, not against her. Once you get a garden in balance (which can take a couple or a few seasons, depending on how the garden has been treated ), it is much easier. You can relax and let your garden take care of itself! :)

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StevePots
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rainbowgardener wrote:Wow! Sounds like you have done your homework.
I was just blessed with the ability to find people who know more than I do and ask them for help. It's a gift. lol

I actually learned something interesting about landscaping habits from a Home Depot employee while buying mulch. Landscape companies don't like to use plants that flower and self seed. Has something to do with the plants self propagating and causing more work to keep them under control. I looked around my town and all the townhouse communities, condos, city buildings and even local parks lack flowering plants. My town is a green desert. The lady who I spoke to at Home Depot said she personally believed that it was one of the biggest reasons why we have a whitefly problem in our area.
Funny thing is that the city recommends using insecticides for the whitefly problem. Their educational video even says that you will kill beneficial insects too. First we don't feed them and then we poison the few good bugs that we do have.
So, basically my town is a bad neighborhood for good bugs. I clearly have my work cut out for me if I want beneficial insects.
My pro insect project is currently taking up all my time. Figure I might as well start there. It is still vegetable gardening if you can eat the plants right? Thanks for your long and informative response. I'll refer back to it while I get my garden in fighting shape.



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