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Cola82
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Will milk spray or neem oil hurt ladybugs?

I don't know why I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that I bought ladybugs today, but I did. Now I have a big squirming mess of them in my fridge that I plan to release this evening when it cools down (high of 93F today). I already know to mist them and spray with sugar water to keep them stranded on my plants, although I don't know if I should do that before or after I introduce them. I am just absolutely sick to death of squishing aphids for an hour every day and getting nowhere, especially in this heat.

My real question is in the title of the post, though. I have a pansy with powdery mildew and my rosemary relapses every time it's overcast and humid, no matter how little I water it, so I started spraying them with milk spray. The neem oil hasn't helped much with the powdery mildew, but I'm still wondering if it will be an option after I introduce ladybugs.

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Obviously I don't want to kill off their food supply, but right now that doesn't seem likely. There's a weird alley behind my neighbor's yard that allows us to move equipment into our backyard, because we're the middle house in a row of three. We use it so little that when I checked it recently I found it's overgrown with weeds and the weeds are all covered in aphids. Almost all of the aphids on my tomatoes and other plants have wings, but these were all wingless. Reading about aphids, this seems to make sense--they produce winged offspring when they get too crowded, and boy howdy, are they crowded back there. You can't even see the weeds' stalks. No wonder I'm overrun.

I'm thinking of releasing some ladybugs back there, too. Do you think this will help choke off their supply? I briefly considered using herbicide or getting some more gravel, but this seems more elegant.

Here's a photo of one of the barrels with the tomato (and some nasturtiums I planted with it).

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The aphids themselves have proven very difficult to photograph. This may be my best attempt--it's two of them that got caught in a spider's web when they flew in. I put a leaf behind them to try and help the lens focus but... eh.

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evtubbergh
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Hey Cola

Neem oil is for insects (not mildew) and the milk is for the mildew.

Milk should be fine on the leaves - spray before you release the ladybugs then spray them only with water.

I would leave the neem oil out for now. It won't actually kill them directly but if the aphids are feeding on plants with neem oil on them then the ladybugs feed on the aphids they will be affected.

Let the ladybugs do their job and see what happens with the aphids. Try installing a home for them to breed.
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Regarding your powdery mildew; the problem is usually a wet period (even just watering) followed by dry hot conditions. They look a little leggy, which might have to do with a lack of sun. If they get too much shade the spores will grow better. You need to make sure they have sunlight, god air circulation and also water them at the roots only (not on the leaves).

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Cola82
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I was using the neem oil on the aphids, but it says on the bottle it's also for fungal problems, which is why I tried it. Not so much, I guess. I will definitely retire it for now.

As for the milk spray, you're saying definitely don't use it on the ladybugs, yes?

ETA: as for the ladybug house, that's pretty neat. I did see something like it over by the cooler and wondered what it was. I'll consider it. :)

ETA2: and in my defense the pansies were a gift. They came densely potted with other plants and I tried to break them up when I saw the white patches, knowing they needed more air. :oops:

evtubbergh
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The milk on the plants definitely won't kill the ladybugs so use it, I just wouldn't want to actually spray it on them directly. Not sure why they say the neem will help fungal infections - total rubbish that!

The way the violas (they are violas by the way - similar to pansies but different) were potted is why they are leggy so don't worry. Try picking off the infected leaves and throw in the rubbish, not in the garden.

Spray milk and sunshine will take care of the rest :)

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Cola82
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Okay cool. Thank you so much! :D

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rainbowgardener
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I don't know why that was stated so definitely that Neem oil is not fungicidal. It is definitely marketed as an organic fungicide. There does seem to be scientific evidence to back that up:

"Use of neem for control of plant pathogenic fungi is known and has been amply documented." and gives citations.
https://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/40(1)/PJB40(1)403.pdf


"Some potential alternative fungicides currently available and approved for organic apple production are potassium
bicarbonate (Armicarb® „O‟), Bacillus subtilis (Serenade® MAX), neem oil (Trilogy®), and milk. " from a master's thesis evaluating effectiveness of these alternatives.
https://library.uvm.edu/jspui/bitstream ... Thesis.pdf


General Properties of Fungicides Used in Grapes (includes Neem oil on their list)
https://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r302900211.html

etc.

Milk or Neem won't hurt the ladybugs directly unless it is sprayed right on them.

I never heard anyone say that ladybugs would be harmed by eating aphids that had ingested Neem, but I went looking to check:

"Neem oil products have proved to be remarkably benign to insects such as adult bees and butterflies that pollinate crops and trees, ladybugs that consume aphids, and wasps that act as parasites on various crop pests. As mentioned above, neem oil has to be ingested to be effective. Those insects that feed on plant tissues, therefore, easily succumb. However natural enemies that feed only on other insects, and bees and butterflies that feed on nectar rarely come in contact with significant concentrations of neem oil to cause themselves harm."
https://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/11/neem-oil/

Here is what is put out by the Neem oil people (so yes, this is part of their marketing, but they do seem to be straightforward and give documentation of their claims):

You can also rest assured that while neem hurts aphids, whiteflys and the like, it does not harm ladybugs and other predators that eat the aphids, or the tiny wasps that are parasites on many pests.

In one field trial researchers collected and counted aphids and their parasites and predators from fields. In the neem treated field there was the same amount of predator activity as in the untreated fields, and the aphids carried even higher numbers of parasites!

As I already mentioned above, the reason is that the beneficial insects don't eat the leaves and so never consume enough neem to be affected.
https://www.discoverneem.com/neem-bees-b ... sects.html

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Cola82
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Thanks for the follow-up, Rainbowgardener. There's a lot of good info here. :)

ETA: I released the ladybugs last night. It was a really warm night, though, and this morning I noticed that while many had stuck around, there were exactly zero little red bugs on my tomato plants. :/ They were all over the stakes and peppers and nasturtiums, but none on the tomatoes where I really need them.

Come on, guys.

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applestar
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You could put a mesh/tulle cover over the plants you want the ladybugs to "patrol" and put them inside.

evtubbergh
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I bow to your superior wisdom Rainbow :)

In all the reading I did and talking to people I heard only that neem is only an insecticide. And also, even though I spray with neem for our serious aphid infestation I still get powdery mildew but copper solution does seem to help the mildew. Although, now I will spray the plants that are affected by powdery mildew in advance and see how it works.

I also feel a little funny about spraying anything that kills one insect where other insects could be affected. Even if generally it only affects insects that suck on the plant, what is it gets in a flower and therefore into a nectar eating insect or builds up in an aphid and gets into the system of the ladybird, wasp etc?

Neem also doesn't kill but rather disrupts reproduction so that it should be possible to transfer to other insects that are feeding on aphids etc.

Those studies are promising so I feel positive but I also have a little reservation because we don't always know everything just from studies.

All I am saying is that I would not spray neem oil while releasing lots of ladybirds. I would wait until the have dispersed. And it would be great to see how well they work without any other inputs, wouldn't it?

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Cola82
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That's a good idea, Applestar. Most of them have abandoned me already, but I might try again with that idea in mind. :)

imafan26
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that lady bug house also looks like a tunnel nest for solitary carpenter bees.
https://www.beelovehawaii.com/blog/the-c ... -sonorina/



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