Neem plus pyrethrin?

[hit or miss]

I'm convinced I need to get some Neem oil for the garden but, is Neem plus .25% pyrethrin considered organic or natural? I'm really trying to make the transition from "standard" ways to natural ways to grow.

[cynthia_h]

I would advise against mixing these two insecticides. Each one has its uses, and each is effective alone. Here's an info sheet from Colorado State University describing the general categories of organically derived insecticides and their modes of action:

https://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4dmg/VegFruit/organic.htm

Hope this helps, at least a little!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[The Helpful Gardener]

I'm with Cynthia; I hate to go combinant because one, the combinant effects are the least studied part of any pesticide and two, I like to switch back and forth from one to another to insure no organisms develop resistance, and using both every time won't help that at all. Third I like to reserve pyrethrins as my back-up big gun and tend to shift back and forth between neem and soaps as my regular sprays... (and by regular I mean when I see bugs and know what they are; not "sprayin' and prayin'!)

Good article Cynthia, but I am suprised to see [url=https://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/rotenone-ext.html]rotenone[/url] still recommended for veggies (even the Rodale Institute where it was developed is no longer really recommending it as there appears to be both toxicological and prenatal issues; it's really toxic in the concentrated form as well). I no longer do as a food crop pesticide, but still have an old bottle I will use on ornamentals...

The other comment I would make is that the glowing report on the safety of pyrethrin needs to be taken with the following grain of salt; pyrethrins were the most common cause of accidental poisonings last year. People hear that something is "safe" and they go wild with the stuff, just short of bathing in it. These are still toxic substances, that's what makes them pesticides. Our organic pesticides are selected for low residual effect, but many can be very toxic when first applied. Pyrethrin goes on very toxic, but by the next day that toxicity is nearly gone.

I asked Elaine Ingham what she thought about different organic pesticides and her final words have stuck with me, "We want high toxicity and low residuals for best effect." I can't say anything smarter than that...

HG

[hit or miss]

Thanks for the replies! Good information there. I'm new to natural gardening but typically don't use insecticides at all. The one exception was last year with a huge infestation of squash bugs. I don't use Sevin and squash bugs have been the only pest I've had bad problems with in the past. I agree with the idea of saving the pyrethrin for a big gun problem. I'll keep searching for straight up Neem in this area. I like the idea of a dual use fungal and insect control product that's not toxic.

[The Helpful Gardener]

I have heard intercropping nasturtium helps with squash bugs; trying it this year first time...

HG