Is there an alternative to spraying Roundup?

[ashland97520]

Gerrie, ditto here. A little yank here and a little there, and pretty soon you aren't spending your time worrying about weeds and can concentrate on gardening.

Where in SO are you? We're in Central Point, loving the weather, as is our garden.

[Gerrie]

I'm in Applegate, just past the bridge, down Thompson Creek. How long have you been a memeber and how long in Or?

[pharmerphil]

Some of the other organic choices are [url=https://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_217500.htm]pelargonic acids[/url](think geranium juice ) [url=https://www.aenews.wsu.edu/Sept01AENews/Sept01AENews.htm#anchor5338542]Acetic acid[/url] is just another name for vinegar but you can get stronger stuff; most table vinegar runs around 5%, you can get Acetic Acid to 20% if you have the license...

Try a bit of detergent dish soap with the vinegar; just a few drops. Often plants protect their leaves with a fine wax of phospholipids, which the detergent can dissolve, letting the the acetic acids do their thing... worth a shot, and it's only vinegar and dish soap....

HG

No offense HG, but 56% acetic acid can be purchased, without a license, through janitorial supply warehouses...
it is very powerful, NON-selective, so it will burn down everything, And must be used with caution.

We mixed 1 cup to two gallons of water and applied it to a fence line...Looked like a roundup effect...the next day, with out the roundup

[applestar]

next year the plaintain weed is the target (plaintain tells me where it's compacted, so we'll start there first...)

Don't forget to save some of the plantain for Buckeye butterflies! My DD(then 6) and I spotted a Buckeye in our garden last year near the plantain patch. No wear/tear on the wings so it might have been newly eclosed. We've also observed little black caterpillars on plantain as well.

Also, you can't beat plantain leaf juice for treating fresh mosquito bites. Just pick a piece of leaf and roll between your fingers until juices start to run and apply. I usually have terrible allergic reactions to bites with 1" welts by the next day, but if I treat bites immediately with plantain, they doesn't swell up.

[The Helpful Gardener]

See, if Gerrie and I can do it...

HG

[wolfie]

Can I use the newspaper and soil over top method to kill off the grass around my raspberry plants?

[The Helpful Gardener]

Yes you can...

AS, the plaintain works great on bee and wasp stings too; the wife didn't believe me until I chewed up a few leaves and slapped it on her swelling finger (yellowjacket). She was amazed; it's better than any over the counter stuff I ever used.

HG

[cherlynn]

Will the Acetic Acid/Vinegar also work on poison ivy and poison oak? We have a problem along our property line

We have come to terms with the dandelions and other weeds in our lawn...we let them be! The info on plantain leaf juice for insect bites and stings is a good reason to leave some in the yard! Until reading this post, I had not known the medicinal value of this plant. Here is a link to more information on the plantain "weed":

[url]https://www.altnature.com/gallery/plantain.htm[/url]

[The Helpful Gardener]

Cherylynn, you have tackled the big issue here and the news isn't great...

I have not had great luck with acetic acid on poison ivy, in fact vines in general are an issue. It does not get a root kill, so the stuff pops back pretty quickly, but it will burn off all the leaves, so it is a great rpecursor to a session with a [url=https://www.weedwrench.com/]Weed Wrench[/url]or other removal techniques...

This is one of those places that I actually might think about using a chemical (but not Round-Up; there are [url=https://www.I-sis.org.uk/GTARW.php]other chemicals in that stuff[/url]that are nastier than the active ingredient... straight glyphosate is still nasty, but I have used it on serious poison ivy out of necessity, but as sparingly as possible and only when I had exhausted other avenues...

HG

[gixxerific]

I have never used any spray to kill weeds. I always mulch heavily with grass. Normally there are very few weeds. Mainly crabgrass but even that is few and far between. Even last year after I tilled it up for the fall there were not many weeds in the bare soil. That would have been my first garden season at this house.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Weeding is only an issue when you don't mulch; it is ridiculously easy when you do. I don't think people get that...

My veggie garden gets weeded once a week or so. 30 x 20 space; I action hoe the walking rows in about three minutes and take another five or so to do the growing areas (occassionally a wee longer if I've been shirking). Done. Easy peasy extra cheesy...

I use my Weed Hound in my lawn, my Weed Wrench to get bigger stuff, and plastic (turns out clear is better than black) to prep bedding areas. Who needs [url=https://www.ppdl.purdue.edu/PPDL/weeklypics/5-15-06.html]Round-Up[/url]? [url=https://www.mbayweb.com/glyphos8.htm]Horrid stuff[/url]... [url=https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/08/DDO218FLRL.DTL&type=homeandgarden]should be outlawed[/url]...

HG

[rainbowgardener]

I try to be an organic gardener. I don't use any insecticides other than my garlic/tomato leaves/ aromatic herbs/ cayenne pepper concoction. I don't use artificial fertilizers, except the Miracle Gro in the potting soil I start seeds in. I don't MUCH use herbicides. The exceptions are in the title. I'm horribly allergic to the poison ivy. And here in Ohio Japanese honeysuckle bush has taken over the world. If you get to it while it's young, it's not too hard to pull/dig out. Medium size, I have access to a honeysuckle popper I can borrow. But my property is home to giant old honeysuckles that I am working on clearing. What I've been doing is cutting them down to the ground and then putting Roundup on all the cut stems. I paint it on, so nothing else gets sprayed. And then I do it again in the fall. After maybe 2 - 3 years of being cut down and painted with Roundup twice a year, the %#$@ thing is probably dead!

So if I shouldn't be using the Round up on poison ivy and honeysuckle, what do you recommend?!

[gixxerific]

So if I shouldn't be using the Round up on poison ivy and honeysuckle, what do you recommend?!

I try to be organic as well. But the answer to you question is TOTAL VEGETATION KILLER!!!! That stuff will kill anything and usually nothing at all will grow for a year or so but it is poison ivy. With the whole "poison" part of it I would bring out the big guns and lay waste. You could try all those sissy ass don't hurt the environment things but if you want it to work, spray some death on it from above. Poison Ivy is very hard to kill. My buddy had some that ran the whole length of his back yard that backed up to train tracks, some of the vines were like friggin' trees.

:Edit: Just so you all know I would never use anything like that in a garden, but nuisance vegetation is a different story. There is a time and place for everything.

[cathandrick]

Hi all, great to hear all the various ways to deal with weeds. I think we are on top of it all now. We used the vinegar spray again and then just pulled the big ones that didn't seem to truly die. I guess time will tell if they all come dancing back up in our spring. THG, out of interest, (please excuse my ignorance) but what do you recommend mulching with, in both a veggie garden and general gardening? I want to get onto this ASAP so that it reduces the weeding next time around.

[gixxerific]

Hi all, great to hear all the various ways to deal with weeds. I think we are on top of it all now. We used the vinegar spray again and then just pulled the big ones that didn't seem to truly die. I guess time will tell if they all come dancing back up in our spring. THG, out of interest, (please excuse my ignorance) but what do you recommend mulching with, in both a veggie garden and general gardening? I want to get onto this ASAP so that it reduces the weeding next time around.

In my garden I use grass from my yard. Everywhere else I use regular mulch from a nursery. I get the black dyed mulch for aesthetics. Of course I have a truck which makes it easy for me to get a couple of yards at a time.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Compost for mulch. Compost for fertilizer. Compost for soil amendment. Compost for soil innoculation... it slices, dices chops and minces. It is Mother Nature incarnate and it will improve ANY soil. My flower beds and vegetable garden are mulched with a fantastic (and expensive) compost I get from a farmer I know, and my shrub and forb borders I do with my homemade stuff. It's completely worth it as once I get my soil right, it will begin to fend for itself and inputs can get less expensive and less intensive...

Organics is frontloaded as far as expense; you put in more money/time to begin with and less as time goes by. Chemical culture is the opposite; it looks cheap at first but as you develop more and more related problems, and cure them with more and more chemicals, an ugly feedback loop begins to develop until system crash or bankruptcy. We do not learn; this lesson was taught back in the [url=https://scienceguy288.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dust.jpg]Dust Bowl[/url] era, and we've forgotten already... here's a [url=https://content.answers.com/main/content/img/McGrawHill/Encyclopedia/images/CE631500FG0010.gif]slice of soil in shortgrass prairie[/url]with roots down four feet. You cannot develop feeder roots more than a foot deep or so chemically; the demise of supporting biology does not allow it. This prairie relies on the biology to maintain soil stability. When we replaced that prairie with wheat, and biology with chemicals, they got a few really bumpercrop seasons before the soil just gave up in a bad drought. No roots to hold it, and the next thing you know we are having [url=https://livinghighdef.com/wordpress/?p=604]Black Blizzards[/url] in New York and Boston. We lost four feet of soil in some locales in a matter of a day; it takes tens of thousands of years to make that much topsoil...

We need to start getting it right as the planet is giving us every indicator she is starting to fight back... if Mother decides it's time for us to go, we will be hard pressed to stop it. The truly stupid thing is this could be fixed with truly rational thinking (rather than "economically" sound thinking that looks to next years projected profits rather than the Lakota seventh generation model. We had best adopt the precautionary principle as the days of "I am only hurting the earth a little bit; it's no big deal" have been brought to a close by overpopulation and increased demand. Every little bit hurts...
[quote]“Only within the moment of time represented by the present century has one species -- man -- acquired significant power to alter the nature of his world.â€

[gixxerific]

Compost for mulch. Compost for fertilizer. Compost for soil amendment. Compost for soil innoculation... it slices, dices chops and minces. It is Mother Nature incarnate and it will improve ANY soil.

Amen, and greaqt post THG!

[Diane]

I agree Scott. I've never used chemicals for bugs or weeds.
As a child I lived through the 70's wondering if there would be a river or stream with fish. Pollution was so bad. My kids call me a tree hugger, and I am, but I also tell them you don't know how bad it was.
Now we wonder where the bees are and why they're dying.
I believe it was Einstein who said if the bees die we will too.

[rainbowgardener]

Thought I'd try to answer my own question, but haven't come up with much. Apparently goats will eat it, with no ill effect to the goat. But that's not too helpful for us city dwellers. A salt plus vinegar plus dish detergent solution is said to kill it. However, to me salting the soil is worse than Roundup. Roundup doesn't stay around very long. Salt sterilizes the soil for a long long time. Poison ivy might be gone, but nothing else would grow there. You could try painting it on the leaves, to keep so much salt from getting in the soil, but that necessitates being very close to all those nasty poison ivy leaves.

I'm afraid I may keep putting Roundup on the poison ivy...

[The Helpful Gardener]

RBG, at least step away from the RU to straight glyphosate; RU's "inerts" are more toxic than the active ingredient. There are other effective glyphosates that do not have the witches brew of secondaries that characterizes RU, especially in it's "new and improved" forms. Glyphosate alone is far less toxic and residual than RU.

HG

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks HG, that I can do, switch to glyphosate. In the meantime, I'm really not a big poison sprayer. The roundup has not been touched this year. Our Quaker meeting bought a honeysuckle popper, which I can borrow, so I'm popping more of the honeysuckles. And I'm trying to just dig more of the poison ivy when I can (putting myself in dire peril). I throw the plant on the concrete in the sun and watch it sizzle and die. But I know that doing that there's more roots in the ground....

Anyway, I'm always working to improve what I do and moving towards being a more perfectly organic gardener...

[Pippin Limbertwig]

The goats have worked quite well on multiflora rose, blackberry, poison ivy, honeysuckle and autumn olive (also effective on celery and broccoli ), but not so much on Burdock, Thistles, Horse Nettle and Wild lettuce.

I am so averse to using Round-Up and 2,4-D, I spend weeks each growing season with the shovel and the machete - then slipping off to dump truckloads of thistle in the dark of the woods because it might sprout in the compost. I even take it to the landfill if the flowers are open.

One can't mulch pasture - although we constantly try to increase its organic matter, productivity and balance of appropriate species.

But no bare soil ever - nature abhors a vacuum - our noxious weeds are often nature's pioneer plants. (I know people who plant plantain and crabgrass in their cow pastures.)

Thank you, Scott and others, for talking about the 56% Acetic Acid - 5% won't work on these plants when they are big enough to notice and have last year's well developed roots. I'm hoping a stronger solution will help.

[Diane]

[quote="rainbowgardener"] Our Quaker meeting bought a honeysuckle popper, which I can borrow, so I'm popping more of the honeysuckles. And I'm trying to just dig more of the poison ivy when I can (putting myself in dire peril). I throw the plant on the concrete in the sun and watch it sizzle and die. But I know that doing that there's more roots in the ground.... quote]

When we bought our home about 20 years ago our yard had hundreds of weed and slippery elm trees. From inches to 12 feet tall.
We tried digging them up, pulling them up and cutting down the large ones.
The worst ones were next to a stone wall. We dug a deep trench a foot or two from these trees and left it open for I don't remember how long. But until it weakened the roots enough to pull out the trees.

I wonder if this could work on your poison ivy so that you wouldn't have to get so close so often.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Diane, poison ivy would likely survive anything shrot of total root exposure; trees are not the hardy explorers that vines are. I have cut the main root and had the top take weeks to finally die; I assume it was parasitizing the tree it had climbed. It can root in the shallowest of soils and at every node that touches soil, even crevices in bark are enough to get started. This plant is the one possible exception to my no-chem ways; in bad situations there is often no other good way. Our end goal should be reduction as much as possible, with exceptions ruled by common sense and restraint. There are few rules that do not brook or even require exceptions, IMHO, anyway... even NOFA allows for occasional exception...

HG