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Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:01 pm
by nath
I got this bonsai a while ago and I never found out what it was all I know is its indoor and recently ive moved it from my windowsill to my self because its leavees were started to fall of and I thought it was in the wrong place but the leaves have continued to fall off (its now autumn going into winter) thanks

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:24 pm
by imafan26
It looks like Fukien tea, ehretia microphylla or carmona microphylla. It has shiny leaves that are rough to touch and has small white flowers. They make good bonsai plants but they are tough weeds to dig out when the seeds fly.

https://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/fukiencare.html

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:12 am
by nath
Thanks very much

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:29 am
by imafan26
You are welcome.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:07 pm
by tomc
Carmona is listed in Lesniewicz as needing "bright location".

This is a tree I do not grow.

But it may need more sun than a shelf.

As described by Indoor Bonsai.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:28 pm
by nath
Thanks but will it be going through a winter dormant stage

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:38 pm
by rainbowgardener
Carmona is evergreen. It is not dropping leaves because it is going dormant, like a deciduous tree would. It is dropping leaves because it is in some kind of trouble. It needs bright indirect light.

Here's a care sheet:

https://www.bargain-bonsai.co.uk/Bargain ... -sheet.htm

What kind of soil is it in and how are you watering it?

Leaf dropping is a sign of stress, such as exposure to cold drafts, too much temperature change, being moved around, insufficient humidity. It should be misted regularly and/or be on a humidity tray. Houses are very dry in winter.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:08 pm
by nath
Were i live the sun is low because its winter and gets blocked out by houses so should i use a grow light.It is watered every 4 days and what do you mean by mist (im relatively new to this hobby)

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:30 pm
by rainbowgardener
Yeah, supplemental light would probably help. Doesn't need to be a fancy grow light, just fluorescent (regular incandescent bulbs give off too much heat, will burn your plant if close enough to do any good) light shining on it from just a few inches away.

Mist is just to spray a fine mist of water on it from a squeeze spray bottle.

Humidity tray is a shallow tray a bit wider and longer than your pot, with gravel/ small rocks in it. Fill the tray with water and then set the pot on top of the rocks, so that it is right over the water, but not touching it.

Note that imafan is in Hawaii, thus the idea that Carmona could become a weed. Not anywhere that has freezing winters. :)

You don't want to fertilize trees that are already stressed, so I would withhold fertilizer from yours until it starts putting out new leaves.

Carmonas are noted as being sensitive trees, not always easy for beginners. But very beautiful when flowering. Good luck with yours!!

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:47 pm
by nath
Is this a humidity tray

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:04 pm
by rainbowgardener
No, too flat, wouldn't hold enough water


Image
https://myfirstorchid.files.wordpress.co ... 221411.jpg

it wouldn't have to be this big, this was just a picture I found, but you want something you can put a reasonable amount of water in and then have the pot sitting above the water. They make commercial ones where the pot sits on a grid above the water, but it isn't hard to improvise.

Image
https://www.cocoponics.co/wp-content/upl ... plants.jpg

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:02 pm
by imafan26
What Rainbow said is true, Fukien tea is not normally deciduous and it grows where there is good light and in a well drained soil. It should not be sitting in a saucer that has water in it. Bonsai need to be repotted fairly frequently and fed depending on the tree and how fast it grows.

Check the roots and see if they are all right. If it looks like they are showing signs of rot, the plant may have been too wet. If the roots are curling around and there is hardly any soil left the tree may be starving. You would then have to cut off the dead roots; repot and hope for the best. Ideally this should be done in Spring but if the plant is stressing you will not have a choice. Sometimes it helps to plant it in a larger pot to recover and in the Spring reduce the roots and put it back into a bonsai pot.

https://www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/bons ... /repotting

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:00 pm
by nath
Thanks for all youre help sorry I haven't replied in a while but I wanted to show what I recently bought

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:08 pm
by tomc
I train English Ivy into vase shapes as entry level bonsai. If I leave it outdoors too late in the year the leaves will redden.

Once I get them under floresent light they green right back up inna week or three.

Your tree sounds like it needs more light.

Your citrus will definately need more light.

Yer growin' trees, not mushrooms.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:22 pm
by nath
The bonsai that I posted on here has recovered well and its doing good and the citrus tree is in a room which gets filled with light

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:39 pm
by rainbowgardener
So glad to hear your carmona is doing well. Thanks so much for coming back and letting us know. Very often around here we never find out the end of the story.

Just because tom mentioned it, here's and image of an ivy bonsai:



Image
https://www.artofbonsai.org/america_euro ... _Helix.jpg

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:26 pm
by nath
Ive been meaning to reply but haven't had the time.I love the look of the ivey bonsai is that your own because i would to grow one

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:07 pm
by rainbowgardener
No, not mine, just a picture I found. I put the picture credit under it.

Here's the website it came from:

https://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=995

it is a bunch of entries in a contest, with the judges scoring and comments, kind of interesting.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:18 pm
by nath
Oh right i will have to have a look but i was thinking about growing my own Ivey bonsai now ive seen it

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:38 pm
by tomc
nath wrote: has recovered well and its doing good and the citrus tree is in a room which gets filled with light
Good! Good on you.

Now is the season to read around on the things to do to get your next crop of citrus.

When I can get my fruiting bonsai to set fruit, I feel like I'm getting things right.

Ivy is offered here at big-box stores routinely in the spring with several cuttings per cell. Tease them apart and tie each rooted slip to a shish-kebab scewer. Keep the shoots pruned back to a single new leaf at each pruning (about every 4-6 weeks).

That nice old Ivy is probably 20 years old.

I guess the point I was bringing on was cold and low light levels evoke red leaves or needles...

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:09 pm
by imafan26
Very good. I don't know about other places, but most bonsai here are outdoor plants. They are only brought in to be on display and then they go outside again. I had a kinsu (miniature citrus) that I was going to turn into a bonsai, but it died and it was still in the grower pot. I think it got crowded out by the bigger plants that blocked the light.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:37 am
by nath
Were i live loads of people have Ivey growing in their garden so i could easily get a cutting. When i bought the citrus tree it had lots of fruit on and luckily still dose and a few have now turned orange

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:32 pm
by nath
Can i just ask what bonsais do youse grow

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:40 pm
by tomc
nath wrote:Can i just ask what bonsais do youse grow
My bench is much smaller after my last move three years ago. So I'll offer up the old arbor to answer your questions.

Sugar maple -
Bloodgood maple (and Hime) +
Osage Orange -
Pear -
Bald cypress +
Sumac *
Alberta spruce *
Yezzo (Glehnnii) spruce+
Blue, norway, omorika spruce -
Sassafras -
Witch hazel -
Bittersweet -
Ivy -
Texas ebony +
Azalea Both hearty & indicum +
Celtis -
Mullberry +
Crab apple +
Bamboo +
Olive (olea) +
Sweetfern+
Cherry+
Beach plum+
Blueberry+
Huckleberry+
Red oak -
White oak+
Willow-
Ironwood *
KY coffee tree*
Bay berry*
Bay laurel -

I'm quite sure I'm disremembering more of of the asterisk' (loosers) that just didn't really fit in at all.

Minus sign trees were seasonal, or had other presentation problems. Or, were pruning nightmares (like monthly) But were good enough to keep at least untill I was forsed to between the many, to bring along the few.

Plus sign trees mostly were good enough to make the cut and come south with me when I moved.

And I'm sure there are many I'm just not recalling right now.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:17 am
by rainbowgardener
I am less than a beginner in bonsai, read about it more than practice. I have a burning bush, an oak and a maple that were volunteers in my garden that I have potted up to be future bonsai. The burning bush had a good thick trunk and I have cut it back and root pruned it a couple times, so it is the closest to being a bonsai, but I wouldn't call it that yet. The others are just in big pots growing out more. I have found with trees like the maple and oak, both for possible bonsai and just for transplanting to other parts of the property, if I leave them in the ground too long, then it is hard to dig them up without killing them. So I have to dig them while just 2-3 ' tall and pot them to keep growing. I have a bunch of trees in that process, that are for transplanting later.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:53 am
by nath
I am only 15 and only a beginner and i only grow the tree i posted on here , a citrus tree and a ficus but i do alot in my garden aswell

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:11 pm
by tomc
I'll perseverate on about problem trees.

Witch Hazel wants ever so much to be a taller understory tree. Its leaves and internode space don't reduce all that well either. With that said in the fall when in bloom (after leaf drop), a well pruned tree in bloom will poke your eye out.

That four autumnal weeks make up for the lack the other 48.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:42 pm
by nath
What colour is its bloom

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:18 pm
by tomc
Yellows and oranges.

My point is only, I bet you have trees that will be fun for your trial. English oak (Q robur, a white oak) being one.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:59 pm
by nath
Do you have any tips for me growing my own

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:25 pm
by tomc
nath wrote:Do you have any tips for me growing my own
Read up on and lavish money and time on perfect soil. A pretty big tree can do well in a really shallow tiny pot if the soil is perfect.

In the fairly cool midwest (here USAin) or in any part of the United Kingdom perfect soil is going to be largely stoney bits, and bark mulch. In the tropics, perfect soil is going to have much more peat or sphagnum moss and less stone or bark. Tropical soil can and will drown trees in the north.

Get or make a chopstick and read up on how to use it, to check for need to water. The Learning Forum here should mention it.

Read everything! Words and pictures will talk to you and make you think of things to do with your trees. Lastly pick up and touch your tree. I dunno if it'll make your tree feel better, but it'll make you feel better.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:38 pm
by nath
I am going to spend this evening reading up about growing bonsai s

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:49 pm
by tomc
My reading led me to mame* (really tiny tiny trees) and root over rock.

I'm here to tell ya' its a lot easier for me to build root over rock style than mame trees.

I dummy up and do the tiny ones (over again) about once ever ten years, I shook it off on my last attack... ;)

*Mame: more than one fits in the palm of your hand.

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:25 pm
by nath
Root over rock sounds good

Re: Bonsai Id help!

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:41 am
by rainbowgardener
growing your own what?

If you meant growing your own bonsai, that very much depends on what you want to grow as a bonsai. There is a wide range of trees, shrubs, and woody vines that can be treated as bonsai.

I think what tom was getting at, is that a really good way to get started in bonsai, is to find a well started tree or shrub, in your garden or in a nursery, or even by the roadside. You are looking for one that has a good thick trunk (preferably at least an inch thick, which would allow for a 6" tall finished bonsai), nice roots and smallish leaves. Having acquired it, potted it in to a good sized nursery pot, and let it adjust for awhile, you can then start cutting it down to bonsai.

Cutting something down is easier and faster than growing it out. People often are sold some little stick tree in a bonsai pot, that has already had some bonsai shaping. It will never develop any more kept in the bonsai pot.