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Vorguen
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So I can shred all the papers I gwt on the mail and stuff (provided they aren't glossy etc) without worrying? And cardboard anything is good too like cereal boxes and other food boxes?

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rainbowgardener
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yup. It doesn't even really have to be shredded (like run through a shredder), although of course it will break down faster that way. I just tear mine in a few pieces.

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I can get Activated Carbon samples from work can I put this ont he compost pile? also what about diatamatious Earth can it go in a compost pile?

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Can I throw the white paper towels that have been used to dry hands on in the compost pile??

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rainbowgardener
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yes, sure!

estorms
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String has a life of it's own. I would never put it in the compost pile. When you turn the pile you will get part of the string and have to pull it out. It will also get stuck. Sometimes it gives way suddenly, spraying you with compost. If it makes its way into your garden or yard it will wind around your tiller or mower. I burn it and put the ashes on.

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applestar
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Found this article that mint is high in nitrogen and phosphorus:
https://www.goodfruit.com/Good-Fruit-Grower/February-15th-2008/Mint-compost-in-organic-orchards/

In the article, mint hay in question is waste product after extracting essential oils, so presumably distillation processed. In my garden, I have been putting them in a dry pile with invading Englsh ivy. How wasteful is that?

I think I'll start an independent dry mint pile, then put the dried stuff either in the compost piles or in my AACT bucket. I've been brewing all kinds of herbage (is that a word?) in the setup -- comfrey, nettles, even dried snakeroot. Why not dried mint? I wonder if presense of mint essential oils could somehow be detrimental? Mint IS used as antiseptic. Hmmm.

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applestar
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Organic Sources of Nitrogen (GREEN)
:arrow: https://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/factsheets/organicN.html

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rainbowgardener
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Very interesting link. I was quite surprised by how low in N "dairy manure" is and that "finished field compost" is considerably higher. Now I don't feel so bad that I don't use any manures.

DoubleDogFarm
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Manures and composts contain and release N in varying amounts. Fresh dairy manure promptly incorporated should provide at least 5 pounds of available N per ton. Fresh poultry manure provides about 3 times that amount. Mature compost generally contains about 1% total N, but that varies depending on how it's made. As compost ages, the availability of the N it contains tends to decrease. In most cases only about 10% of the total N in compost will be available to a crop in the year of application. that's about 2 lb per ton, or 3/4 lb per cubic yard. Laboratory testing helps determine the nutrient content and availability of manure or compost
I must be reading this wrong. Sounds like dairy manure has twice the N than finished compost. Are they comparing fresh manure vs composted manure?

What's the definition of Field Compost?

Grass hay seems to be equivalent, but not sure how it is used. Is the young grass tilled in?

Not enough information for me.

Eric

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rainbowgardener
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I didn't even read all that. I was just going by the chart where it says fresh
dairy manure has 0.5% N and finished field compost has 1.2% N.

DoubleDogFarm
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rainbowgardener wrote:I didn't even read all that. I was just going by the chart where it says fresh
dairy manure has 0.5% N and finished field compost has 1.2% N.
So, Is the information contradicting? With out definitions the information is almost useless.

If grass hay is as good as compost why go through the hassle of composting?

I consider compost more of a soil amendment than a fertilizer.

Eric

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rainbowgardener
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DoubleDogFarm wrote:

If grass hay is as good as compost why go through the hassle of composting?

I consider compost more of a soil amendment than a fertilizer.

Eric
You know the answers to those questions, Eric :) but I will answer them for the benefit of those who might not. The article is just about sources of Nitrogen. Whatever the details, compost is clearly not the most concentrated source of Nitrogen. The point of compost is that is a very balanced source of everything, NPK plus all the trace minerals and micro-nutrients, plus fungi, bacteria, earthworms and other life of the soil.

But I think of compost as a soil amendment (aids in tilth, water absorbtion, increasing the loaminess of your soil etc) AND a fertilizer. As a fertilizer, it is not very concentrated, but you can add as much as you want, whenever you want, without burning your plants, increasing the salt levels in your soil, harming the life of the soil, etc. What I was reacting to in the article is the suggestion that it along with all of the above, perhaps compost is also a decent source of N.

Compost and mulch is all the fertilizing I ever do and I get good results.

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cedillamuerta
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Would there be any reason not to put Plectranthus leaves on the pile? I have a lot of them that have fallen from the plants at my workplace. They contain very fragrant oils (they smell like Vicks) so won't those break down slowly?

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ElizabethB
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I guess I am kind of a composting purist. I stick to the basics vegetable scraps (raw) leaves (mulched) grass clippings. coffe grounds and filters. egg shells rinsed and crushed. Manure. Sister and brother-in-law breed quarter horses so I have access to cured horse manure. I also got on line and located a couple of local rabbit breeders. They are more than happy to have me go out with a couple of 5 gallon buckets and scoop up manure. When I need to add soil I go to Lowe's and buy busted bags of soil for pennies on the dollar. .50 for 3 cubic ft bag of miracle grow soil. Another thing is that we have a recycling pick up service so stuff like towel rolls and news papers are taken care of. Not going to a landfill. Please be careful with ash and charcoal. That can really raise the pH of your compost and may be detremental to your soil. Some charcoal has chemical additives that I would be leary of.

I know - many folks believe in putting lots of other stuff in their compost. This is just me - not for everyone.

Never heard of putting feathers in a compost bin. Do you cut them up? Seems like the quill would be a little slow to decompose. I tried the stuff in the vacumm cleaner bag once and ended up with a nasty wad of gunk. Had to take it out.

Not claiming to be a composting expert - just sharing what I do.

LOL

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rainbowgardener
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"When I need to add soil" ....

You have mentioned this before. I really don't understand. Why would you ever "need" to add soil to compost in bag lots. I occasionally toss a handful of soil in to be sure that the compost pile is inoculated with soil bacteria/fungi etc. Not sure that is even necessary. I don't know what adding bags of soil would do . . . dilute your compost and slow it down, make it take up a lot more volume...

I am a bit less conservative about what I put in my compost pile (ANY kitchen scrap, since I am vegetarian, so kitchen scraps don't include meat), pulled weeds and yard trimmings. But no manure. I'm in the city and don't have easy access to any. And I like the idea of closed loop gardening. Everything from the yard goes back in to it - brush is chipped up and used for manure, wood is burned and the ash goes in the compost pile (I know, only a little bit at a time). So nothing leaves and very little comes in. Some of those kitchen scraps originally came from the grocery, the fall leaves I collect from around my neighborhood not just my property, and I still buy some potting soil for seed starting and some seeds. Otherwise, nothing out, nothing in, just round and round...

When I used to live on five acres, we also had a composting toilet. I would love to do that again, to really close up the loop, but haven't convinced my honey.

toxcrusadr
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Lots of people seem to think a compost pile needs a lot of soil. I get that question almost every time I do a workshop for a group. Maybe the prev. poster is referring to adding soil to the garden, I.e. raised beds.

In any case it's certainly not a brown OR green and adds little to the compost except for microbes, for which a handful will do.

I virtually never add it because my piles are on the ground and also have a few chunks of previous batches tossed in. Nature does the rest.

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I've never gave it much though. I just toss stuff into a huge pile, keep it moist and it heats up and breaks down. Heck even pure grass can be composted if it's turned often. The resulting compost is rich and perfect for steeped compost tea....which will kick your garden into a production machine. :)

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Does anyone add lime to their compost bins to aid in organic breakdown? I have gone back and forth on additives, except I recognize that pest control is most successful when the material breaks down faster- fewer food scraps, fewer skunks and squirrels rooting about.
If you do use lime, or any other additives available on the store shelves, I'd like to hear your results.

Thanks!

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rainbowgardener
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No additives! except as noted the occasional small handful of soil or previous finished compost. If your garden needs lime, lime the garden, not the compost. Compost pile needs to be tightly enclosed. I know there are people who have 3 sided compost bins, open at the top and one side. I don't know how they do it, but it would never work for me. If my compost pile isn't completely enclosed (with wire for ventilation) including the top, no kitchen scraps would ever stay in it to be composted, since I have squirrels, woodchucks, lots of raccoons, etc.

Keeping a good balance of greens and browns and keeping the pile damp but not wet is all you need to do.

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Wabernathy
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Well, you'll be glad to know I haven't as of yet, but I live in NH, where the pine tress make liming essential for most in-ground production. My veggie beds are raised, so issues there. Still, yours is the first clear opposition to the idea I've heard...

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rainbowgardener
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"Should I add lime to my pile?
Do not add lime to a pile because it may cause nitrogen to be released from the pile as ammonia gas. This gas smells bad and leaves your compost with less nitrogen, an important plant nutrient for you garden.
You don't need to worry about the pH of a compost pile. pH, being a measurement of alkalinity or acidity, will generally adjust itself and when compost is mature, the pH is usually around neutral (7).
If you need to adjust the pH of compost, do this after it has completed its composting. First test the pH of your finished compost and adjust it as needed. "

https://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate ... st/FAQ.htm

this is a good article about composting, with lots of other good info

In my words, I would say 1) lime isn't good for your pile ... 2) it doesn't do you any good in finished result, because the pH will get neutralized in the composting process anyway with or with out it ... 3) don't even bother adjusting the pH of the finished compost, adjust the pH of your soil, which is all you care about anyway. The lime does you a lot more good in the garden than in the compost pile.

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ElizabethB
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This thread is too long for me to read every post. Just a few comments. I can not wrap my head around using the stuff from my bag less vacuum cleaner. 2 cats in the house - 1 long hair. Natural fiber clothes - We have lots of cotton - just how small do you have to cut it up and how long does it take to decompose? A new one for me. I do use toilet paper and paper towel rolls. Since I do not have a gerbil I run them through the shredder. Lots of coffee grounds and filters, tea bags, egg shells, vegetable clippings, grass clippings, leaves. We have a very old live oak and it sheds in March. G puts the bagger on his mower and mulches the leaves. We bag them up for browns year round. My sister and BIL raise Quarter Horses. Lots of free, cured manure. I also have contact with rabbit breeders for free, cool, rabbit manure. Does not have to be cured before use.

Although valid, some of the ideas I have read are just outside of my comfort zone. I can deal with putting small amounts of cat hair outside for the birds to use as nesting material but I do not think I will use it in my compost bins. I toss bread in the yard for the birds to eat but not in the compost. I do not add any cooked foods and never any animal by products to my compost. I will NEVER add cat litter to my compost! Some people do.

A very interesting thread.

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rainbowgardener
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You have tons of great compostables there, Elizabeth!

I haven't added pet hair to compost pile, but lately I'm saving it, because I read that slugs don't like to travel across it (I guess it gums them up or something :) ), so using it as mulch helps keeps slugs away from your plants. I thought I would at least try it.

I don't see any reason in the world not to put bread or cooked food in the compost pile and I do that all the time. It all disappears nicely. No meat, which I don't have anyway being vegetarian, but I have put small amounts of dairy stuff in.

I would never put clay cat litter in the compost pile, turns into a nasty clay mess. I have at times put scooped out wheat based litter in the compost pile, but our one kitty we have left doesn't like to use the wheat stuff, so that's out.

I tried one time emptying my vacuum cleaner bag into compost pile. Didn't think about the fact that our carpet is synthetic fibers. We had red carpet fibers blowing around the yard for a few years after that!

I don't put any manure in my pile. I'm a city girl and there's no manure on our property, so I don't use it. Compost pile doesn't heat up as easily without it, but everything composts.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle! I recycle or compost everything I possibly can.

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I don't add lime, but wood ash to my compost, in small quantities, its mostly fruit scraps and the ash seems to make it brake down faster. Wich I'm all for with my half composting season.

I wouldnt use the vaccum cleaner bag for anything close to my garden! Maybe if you live off grid and have only your own hemp clothes, and 100% synthetic free building materials. This bag is full of junk you don't want in your compost, but people add it and doesnt see the small synthetic fibers anymore and think they actually decomposed.

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somegeek
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I built my bin after my beds a few months back and find myself enjoying filling it up. Paper stuff headed for the trash is being intercepted. Any fruit/veggie scraps. Coffee grounds I used to toss on my lawn (done this for years) now goes in our bin. Yard trimmings from the lawn or shrubs. I"m excited to weed since this yeilds greens for my bin(how sick is this). I'm amazed how this bin works to break stuff down. I see remnants of old corn cobs after a few weeks and they're falling apart. Very neat. My kids are enjoying the temp checks too. Blows them away when they put their hand towards the middle. Love seeing their expression and hearing their questions. Glad I finally built one!
0619162046a_HDR.jpg
0619162046a_HDR.jpg (48.31 KiB) Viewed 17596 times
I did add a few boards to better enclose the bottom half. A bit of material was falling out. Still gets plenty of air with my turning.
IMG_20160707_110624.jpg
somegeek

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rainbowgardener
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Looking great! At some point you will want to build yourself another one. That way the stuff in the first one can be left to break down and finish composting while you start filling the next one. Then you just keep alternating them, which is the old stuff and which the new.

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It took me a while to figure this out
Green = has a lot of water content: and high in nitrogen. Usually fresh leaves, manures, wet coffee ground, kitchen scraps, lawn clippings, non- persistant weeds without seeds, fruit waste, fresh garden trimmings, garden waste. or high nitrogen fertilizer
Browns = high carbon; low water content = dried leaves, stems and stalks, tree bark, bark chips, twigs and branches (preferably chipped).. Former tree trunk parts (bark, paper, pulp pots, cardboard, extruded cardboard, newsprint (black and white pages), wooden pallets, sawdust, untreated wood, Straw bales usually moldy ones are used.

Do not compost meat scraps, animal byproducts, oil, or pet waste. It attracts even more vermin and disease.
Do not compost plastic, or any plant residues or grass that were sprayed with persistent herbicides. Composting will not deactivate the long term herbicides or weed and feed products. Some of them can persist up to a year. Those clippings and dead plants need to go into the regular trash.

You can usually get free manure from stables and some animal farms. Chicken manure is usually sold by the bag.

How to build a pile. Minimum pile size for adequate heating is 3ft high times 3 ft wide by 3 or more feet long.

Browns are low nitrogen and low water, you can stockpile these. Chop it into small pieces
Greens unless you freeze your kitchen waste you have to gather right before you build the pile. Also chop it into small pieces. Two machetes work well. Chinese food processor adaptation.

Get a 4 inch PVC pipe about 3 - 4 ft longs and drill a bunch of holes all along the sides of the pipe

First put a layer of branches and sticks at the bottom of the pile this will help trap air at the bottom of the pile

Put about a 6 inches of brown material on the sticks
Next add about 3 inches of greens spread it out evenly.
On top of that toss in a shovel full of soil or a mix of soil and manure
Water the layer so it is moistened.
Keep adding layers brown, green and a shovel full of soil and then water each layer well.
When you get about a 18-24 inches high place the PVC tube in the pile and leave it standing upright. If it doesn't stand nicely, you may have to add a couple of more layers.

In the center of the pile I like to put manure or high nitrogen fertilizer (take your pick organic or sulfate of ammonia, or urea) on top of the green layer. Continue building the pile until it is at least 3 ft high, If you have more material you can build the pile longer. The top layer should end with browns. Water everything in till it is as wet as a wrung out sponge. It should not be drippy.

Cover the top with burlap or a tarp it keeps the heat in. If you have overwatered the pile let it dry out first before covering or add more browns like straw or newspaper to soak it up.

If you built it right, it should start cooking within 24 hours and start steaming. Let it go for about 4 days. If you have a soil thermometer, ideally it should register at least 140-165 degrees. Start saving for your next pile. Don't add any more to this one.

After day 4 start turning the pile to mix things up. Pull out the PVC tube. The purpose of the PVC tube is to try to get more air into the pile so you promote and aerobic thermophillic reaction. Turn what was on on the outside into the center of the pile. Usually that means Moving over a few feet or into a second bin and start putting the material on the outside of the pile first to start forming the new pile. It should be cooking, hot and steamy but should not smell bad. Keep shoveling from the first pile into the second About 1/2 way through put the PVC pipe back in. If the pile needs water you can add a little but it should still be like a wrung out sponge.

You will make compost faster the more you turn it, but most people don't turn every day. If you are willing to turn it everyday and the compost is hot, you could get compost ready to use in 2-3 weeks. If the pile does not heat up then it was not balanced. It will still make compost, but cold composting takes longer.

Cold composting. does not kill weed seeds and does not necessarily kill the worst pathogens. If you are cold composting then only use clean materials and avoid seeds and diseased plants. Manure is still fine since you will be composting more than 120 days. You still need to stop adding to the pile at some point and start another one from scratch. You still need to balance the moisture to make sure it is neither too wet or too dry. Too wet and it will stink, too dry and not much will happen. It is still better to turn the pile but most people turn the pile less frequently.

evtubbergh
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somegeek wrote:I built my bin after my beds a few months back and find myself enjoying filling it up. Paper stuff headed for the trash is being intercepted. Any fruit/veggie scraps. Coffee grounds I used to toss on my lawn (done this for years) now goes in our bin. Yard trimmings from the lawn or shrubs. I"m excited to weed since this yeilds greens for my bin(how sick is this). I'm amazed how this bin works to break stuff down. I see remnants of old corn cobs after a few weeks and they're falling apart. Very neat. My kids are enjoying the temp checks too. Blows them away when they put their hand towards the middle. Love seeing their expression and hearing their questions. Glad I finally built one!
0619162046a_HDR.jpg
I did add a few boards to better enclose the bottom half. A bit of material was falling out. Still gets plenty of air with my turning.
IMG_20160707_110624.jpg
somegeek
That's so pretty. I just have a pile of stuff that the gardener is now neatening up. It looked a bit like a rubbish heap at one point because of all the eggs boxes etc.

catdaddy66
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Just got out and made three small piles of compost, my first in a few years! Pretty happy to get it done for many reasons, mostly to get active. I will be turning the piles and adding onto them gradually throughout the year. Possibly even building dedicated bins/compartments with pallets.

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applestar
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Sounds great!

I’m trying to get myself ready to do a major spring wake-up turning of the main compost pile. Ideally, I’ll get the consolidated pile cooking again, then in a couple of weeks when I have a chance to do a good cleanup to gather green and brown yard waste, screen out the immediately usable portion and rebuild into a fast pile to cook for at least a month.



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