rats and gardens and compost

[praying mantis]

When I took over, I revamped an anaerobic compost pile with 5 mice in it. That compost is curing happily in a new area with plenty of hay and sheep manure. I have another compost next to it that is having stuff added on a weekly basis (veggie greens with soil sprinkled on top then a bit of hay and a coating of sheep manure, sometimes yard clippings). The new compost pile has been turned once. The curing compost has been turned twice. I have not seen evidence of tampering in either pile. This morning, I saw a small pile of poo on the garden gate that could be a rodent. Tomorrow morning I will turn both piles to determine if I have any guests. Does anyone know if rodents munch on growing plants? Where is your compost, relative to your garden? I will be adding a third compost container for turning. I would prefer to keep building compost separate from curing compost. I won't rule out my compost as the culprit but I seriously don't think I am harboring rodents. I am meticulous about my piles.

[TheLorax]

Yes, rodents munch on growing plants.

I have a chipmunk living underneath the bricks of the composter. He tunneled under there. He's a happy chippie.

It's not uncommon for me to find raccoons and opossums rooting around in my composter after nightfall. Not a big deal but I do have to clean up banana peels quite a bit and eggshells that end up getting stuck to the sidewalk seem as if they've been Crazy Glued in place. The raccoons drag out what they want, dip it in a pond, then go back for more. The opossums just sort of hang out in the composter until they're done with what ever opossums do in them. I find it amusing. It's sort of like the wildlife equivalent of a catnip patch. They get in there and roll around sometimes and when there's more than one it can get pretty loud out there.

Best you sit down for this one. My composter is out my kitchen window about 6' smack dab next to one of the doors leading from the garage to the outside. I can literally open the window on nice days and pitch right into the composter. Are you jealous ;) I don't have a veggie garden per se but the composter is about 100' away from my 5-gallon buckets of tomatoes and about 150' away from my other misc. veggies in planters.

[smokensqueal]

I have a compost bin and it's about 6 feet from our garden. I don't see any evidence of anything going at my garden but I do have mice that like to live in/under my compost. I stopped throwing kitchen scraps in to it for at least a week and still the day after I turn it I can see holes dug through it. I don't think they are really finding much to eat but like the warmth and the cover of it. There have been a few times that I've seen one run from it to the neighbors shed and it was actually kind of large. The neighbor said he saw a few in his shed and he kept calling them rats. So even though I don't see no harm with him in there and help areating it I got a find a way to get rid of him otherwise the neighbor will go nuts.

[TheLorax]

Best to figure out if you and your neighbor are dealing with rats or not first.

[cynthia_h]

I think every county in this country has a Vector Control phone number/office which you can call for identification and assistance when you suspect rats/mice/other vermin on your or a neighboring property.

I'd recommend calling this number tomorrow and asking them to come out and assess for the presence of rodents and, if they think rodents are present, to recommend methods of dealing with said rodents. If rodents are not thought to be present, what tactics to employ to keep them away.

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9/Sunset Zone 17

[applestar]

Years ago, we had a rat hanging around our compost. Neighbors made a BIIG G stink about that. When it was finally live-trapped, it turned out to be a large, light brown rat identified as "Norway Rat" and we were told it was probably somebody's escaped pet -- used to humans, looking for handouts. The animal control officer made a POINT about assuring our neighbors that a correctly managed compost pile would not normally attract rats (and that there was no reason to suspect our compost pile) I thought that was really nice of him.

[TheLorax]

(sigh) More likely somebody tired of cleaning its cage and buying food for it and let it go. People do this with pet mice, gerbils, hamsters, koi, goldfish, turtles, snakes, cats, dogs, and even horses. Pretty sad isn't it. Rats make excellent pets. Not that I'd want a Norway Rat from any place other than a pet shop but they are a great pet for kids.

In all these years, I've never seen a rat by the composter. By the animal feed, yes, but never by the composter. Our composter is chippie's domain anyway.

[Kisal]

I've had wild rats come during the winter for the seed the birds spill on the ground. I keep the area under the feeders well raked, and squirrels and ground feeding birds do a good job of cleaning it up, too. One of my dogs did catch and kill a rat on my patio one night last year, though.

I've made sure that there is no place a rat can comfortably set up housekeeping in my yard, or under/in my house, but I can't prevent them from coming up out of the storm drains.

I always had mice nesting in my compost piles. Every time I would go out to "stir" the piles, my cats would gather around in anticipation!

[TheLorax]

Say Kisal, are you familiar with this product-
https://www.ratzapper.com/zapper-ultra.cfm

This is one of those types of devices that works even when you're sleeping. We use these products around animal feed. They are virtually an instantaneous kill. Very quick death and removing them from the trap is simple. You basically empty it and place it back where it was. It is capable of humanely destroying quite a few rats before you need new batteries. We've been using rechargeable batteries for a while now. Much more economical.

If one of these interests you, there are a few tricks to baiting it so you won't get desirables.

[Kisal]

No, I hadn't seen that. I don't think I really need a rodent trap at this time, considering the dogs I have now. They're killers, which is why I have made my backyard fences so secure that most animals can't get in. My little dog (33 lbs) is allegedly half Dalmatian and half Blue Heeler, but I've decided she must be a rat terrier. (She certainly looks like one.) It was she who grabbed the rat I saw and killed it with one shake! She moved like greased lightening! She also jumps up in my apple tree and scares the squirrels down into my yard, where my Lab mix grabs them and kills them. He is not a soft-mouthed dog! The squirrels that are left have wisely decided to come only to the front yard now.

[wolfie]

If I start a compost pile in my back yard, using either pallets on the sides, or a wire mesh fencing type of thing, what small animals would be likely to come check things out?

I have a 75 pound pit bull who has a doggie door with free access to the back yard day and night, and I would hate for him to start having rat to chase and catch who might have disease or something. If there is a small animal worth catching out there, he will get it!

Thanks!

[cynthia_h]

Me again, Wolfie.

At the class last Saturday, the instructor was very keen to get across the message that open bins/corrals/fencing were to be used for yard trimmings only.

All food scraps were to go into an enclosed, rodent-proof bin.

It may be that, given your yard/property set-up, a corral for yard waste and a worm bin for food scraps will work, or any other kind of combination.

But I agree: risking our dogs' health over possible disease-carrying rats isn't a great idea if we have an alternative.

Cynthia H. (who lives with dogs and cats)
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

[wolfie]

If I do the worm bin, does that make enough to compost my garden?

[praying mantis]

My 10 gallon worm bin produces maybe a gallon of compost every 2 months but I will be using about 4 cubic yards of compost in my yard. I have a veggie compost and a yard clippings compost which are each a cubic yard. This year I have had to purchase local compost since mine was not ready. A worm bin like mine consumes veggies only, not yard clippings or a number of other food items. They are hard-working pets for me.

[opabinia51]

Worm bins are wonderful and I used one for years but, you can also do a large compost pile with red wrigglers as well.