Hi Newbie here, I am a landlord and have two composting questions. Because of a request from a tenant I have been providing 'composting services' in that outside I have provided a medium size composting container that is inaccessible to 'night life', yet has a great number of 1/4" holes in it for airflow. The container is 3 cubic feet in size. She has coffee grinds, possibly egg shells and a great amount of vegetable and fruit scraps because for some reason about a half of what she buys, she ends up discarding. So there is a goodly amount of volume. But I digress... All of the scraps are put in a pretty 'bio-degradable' plastic looking bags, and then they are placed in the composting container.
After 4 months of a warm winter, the containers continue to hold these pretty bags and are not decomposing and inside the bags there is not a lot of breakdown. My opinion is that the composting process is not happening fast enough. I suggested to my tenant that she place her scraps directly in the container to speed up the process. That does not work for her.
Question 1: Would the composting process go quicker without the biodegradable bags?
Question 2: Once I have fully composted matter, can I use it around the property, around plants and small trees without it attracting rodents? If the answer is no then maybe I would need to dig a hole in the ground and put the compost in there with regular dirt on top of it.
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applestar
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- Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)
I think it’s great that you are trying to accommodate composting as a service to your tenants! 
For people who are really new to the process though, sometime more hands-on approach might be needed, and you may need to establish some ground rules of what is expected of them as well as what you are willing to do as additional regular maintenance and periodical reset labor either yourself or by having someone do the work?
In this case, I see a couple of possible obstacles —
1. “bio-degradable” has several nuances and products labeled as such sometimes will only degrade in the properly maintained high temperature municipal or commercial composting operation. Check the label and/or check the product website. The tenant may be willing to change brands if necessary.
2. I know from experience that even tightly closed plastic bag contents will break down nicely if contents are mixed in proper ratio of “greens” and “browns”. If the tenant is only putting kitchen scraps (mostly greens) they may not break down or only turn into stinky slimy mush especially in the heat.
(Ok I don’t in ow why I started numbering — stopping now…)
When I don’t think there is enough browns in the bag, I often add a handful of bokashi starter which is basically microbes that breakdown the greens without needing the browns and can operate in tightly closed bag without oxygen. It smells like kimchi or barrel pickles and some people will not like the odor, though it doesn’t bother me.
…OK I did a quick check to see if they are still available and for how much — here’s one example at amazon — not a recommendation, just a ref
I line my plastic bag with paper grocery bag or restaurant delivery bag (rapidly running out of my saved stock though since the NJ bag ban….) and all paper napkins and paper towels, paper towel cores, pressed pulp egg cartons and beverage trays, etc.) If contents are not sufficiently balanced, it’s better to mix the contents with additional material like toilet paper cores, brown corrugated cardboard boxes, etc.
We save toilet roll cores separately in the bathrooms and use them to mix with other ingredients in the big compost pile.
I regularly use shipping delivery corrugated cardboard to supplement browns — including lining the bottom and sides of my compost pile.
For my own personal convenience, I keep a stash of trash bags by the compost bin/pile to put in bags to discard (actually I use the bags as next trash bag). Also, tool(s) to poke at the compost pile for aeration. And a bucket of water to rinse with. And I always have disposable gloves in my gardening jacket pocket.
When I can’t deal with emptying the kitchen scraps bag right away, I just tightly close and put in a temporary holding cage by the compost pile (A couple of large plastic basket crates — a larger one fits over the other like a lid — to protect from animal raids) and deal with them when I’m dressed for the job.
…I don’t know, did that help clarify? Ask away with specific questions.
Oh! Yes once fully composted you can use them around plants. Compost will be more effective if thin layer of mulch is layered on top — this way the beneficial compost microbes will not get dried out or killed by direct sunlight.
It’s best to “screen” for larger bits which you’ll put back in the pile (1) to break down some more (2) help inoculate the new ingredients — I just use 1 ~ 1-1/2 inch opening chicken wire type metal fencing. If you dry the compost on a tarp and then finely screen then with1/2” you can also use a spreader and spread over the lawn.
For people who are really new to the process though, sometime more hands-on approach might be needed, and you may need to establish some ground rules of what is expected of them as well as what you are willing to do as additional regular maintenance and periodical reset labor either yourself or by having someone do the work?
In this case, I see a couple of possible obstacles —
1. “bio-degradable” has several nuances and products labeled as such sometimes will only degrade in the properly maintained high temperature municipal or commercial composting operation. Check the label and/or check the product website. The tenant may be willing to change brands if necessary.
2. I know from experience that even tightly closed plastic bag contents will break down nicely if contents are mixed in proper ratio of “greens” and “browns”. If the tenant is only putting kitchen scraps (mostly greens) they may not break down or only turn into stinky slimy mush especially in the heat.
(Ok I don’t in ow why I started numbering — stopping now…)
When I don’t think there is enough browns in the bag, I often add a handful of bokashi starter which is basically microbes that breakdown the greens without needing the browns and can operate in tightly closed bag without oxygen. It smells like kimchi or barrel pickles and some people will not like the odor, though it doesn’t bother me.
…OK I did a quick check to see if they are still available and for how much — here’s one example at amazon — not a recommendation, just a ref
I line my plastic bag with paper grocery bag or restaurant delivery bag (rapidly running out of my saved stock though since the NJ bag ban….) and all paper napkins and paper towels, paper towel cores, pressed pulp egg cartons and beverage trays, etc.) If contents are not sufficiently balanced, it’s better to mix the contents with additional material like toilet paper cores, brown corrugated cardboard boxes, etc.
We save toilet roll cores separately in the bathrooms and use them to mix with other ingredients in the big compost pile.
I regularly use shipping delivery corrugated cardboard to supplement browns — including lining the bottom and sides of my compost pile.
For my own personal convenience, I keep a stash of trash bags by the compost bin/pile to put in bags to discard (actually I use the bags as next trash bag). Also, tool(s) to poke at the compost pile for aeration. And a bucket of water to rinse with. And I always have disposable gloves in my gardening jacket pocket.
When I can’t deal with emptying the kitchen scraps bag right away, I just tightly close and put in a temporary holding cage by the compost pile (A couple of large plastic basket crates — a larger one fits over the other like a lid — to protect from animal raids) and deal with them when I’m dressed for the job.
…I don’t know, did that help clarify? Ask away with specific questions.
Oh! Yes once fully composted you can use them around plants. Compost will be more effective if thin layer of mulch is layered on top — this way the beneficial compost microbes will not get dried out or killed by direct sunlight.
It’s best to “screen” for larger bits which you’ll put back in the pile (1) to break down some more (2) help inoculate the new ingredients — I just use 1 ~ 1-1/2 inch opening chicken wire type metal fencing. If you dry the compost on a tarp and then finely screen then with1/2” you can also use a spreader and spread over the lawn.
Much thanks applestar! Her plastic looking bags are made from plants, from repurpose.com. I am thinking the key, based on the above would be for her to put her scraps placed in a small can (with a lid) on the side of her counter or kitchen and periodically dump the scraps from the can into the composting container. And I would then periodically add and mix in brown matter and poke aeration holes and take it from there. But I asked her if she would forgo the bags but the thought of washing out the freshly emptied container was evidently too much. Very nice tenant... I'll find some way to make this work.
Question, does fully composted or almost fully composted matter attract rodents?
Question, does fully composted or almost fully composted matter attract rodents?
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applestar
- Mod
- Posts: 30551
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
- Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)
FULLY composted and mostly composted materials won’t attract rodents.
A couple of decades ago …maybe even a quarter of a century… we had an excitement in the neighborhood when a neighbor spotted a very large rodent running around the street, hiding under people’s cars etc.
Animal/pest control was called, and eventually a huge brown RAT was captured.
There was an impromptu neighborhood meeting including the county inspector, during which fingers were pointed at my compost pile as likely attractant for the rodent, with implication that it should not exist.
The inspector “inspected” my compost pile and asked me a few questions about it, and declared to the gathered, expectant neighbors that the way the compost pile was maintained, it is NOT the likely source of concern. And I was off the hook. (He gave me a copy of his report.)
Later, one of the neighbors told me that the inspector zeroed in on one the pointing neighbors’ garage where paper packages/bags of dog food were being kept on open shelves as the most likely starting point of incursion.
But it was actually identified as an escaped pet Norwegian rat, and not an ongoing threat.
Long-winded reply to say well-maintained compost pile can sometimes be officially certified, or as with mine, “pardoned”.
…So over the decades, I HAVE actually had some indications of rodent and other wildlife raids and activity. Raccoons, feral cats, squirrels, chipmunks, birds…. They usually go after readily accessible, open and not enclosed, piles. Cats and raccoons have dug up lobster and crab remains if I didn’t bury them deeply enough. I now usually put those out when I’m turning the pile, so they can be buried under the entire pile. Raccoons might go after melon rinds, corn on the cob leftovers, etc.
But specifically pest rodent-wise, house and field mice might try but can generally be controlled with traps.
On few occasions, I have discovered a resident garter snake inside the compost pile when I had been neglecting to water the pile as well as I should. If there had been mice, there weren’t any more.
I have had the WORST time when VOLES have discovered the compost pile …and the rest of the vegetable garden. It took dedicated efforts to trap the entire family, and then another family that moved into the vacuum. But it can be done.
The more attentive you are, with routine visits and activities to promote fastest decomposition rate by turning and adjusting moisture levels, the less chance for any kind of pests to see an opening to raid or move in.
*** For the past couple of years ***
I keep one of those solar charged, motion-activated, wide angle security LED floodlights pointed at my compost pile, and have seen it flashing during the night several times … to find some signs of disturbance in the morning (2 or 3 bits pulled out) but not a wholesale raid of scattered and dragged around debris.
A couple of decades ago …maybe even a quarter of a century… we had an excitement in the neighborhood when a neighbor spotted a very large rodent running around the street, hiding under people’s cars etc.
Animal/pest control was called, and eventually a huge brown RAT was captured.
There was an impromptu neighborhood meeting including the county inspector, during which fingers were pointed at my compost pile as likely attractant for the rodent, with implication that it should not exist.
The inspector “inspected” my compost pile and asked me a few questions about it, and declared to the gathered, expectant neighbors that the way the compost pile was maintained, it is NOT the likely source of concern. And I was off the hook. (He gave me a copy of his report.)
Later, one of the neighbors told me that the inspector zeroed in on one the pointing neighbors’ garage where paper packages/bags of dog food were being kept on open shelves as the most likely starting point of incursion.
But it was actually identified as an escaped pet Norwegian rat, and not an ongoing threat.
Long-winded reply to say well-maintained compost pile can sometimes be officially certified, or as with mine, “pardoned”.
…So over the decades, I HAVE actually had some indications of rodent and other wildlife raids and activity. Raccoons, feral cats, squirrels, chipmunks, birds…. They usually go after readily accessible, open and not enclosed, piles. Cats and raccoons have dug up lobster and crab remains if I didn’t bury them deeply enough. I now usually put those out when I’m turning the pile, so they can be buried under the entire pile. Raccoons might go after melon rinds, corn on the cob leftovers, etc.
But specifically pest rodent-wise, house and field mice might try but can generally be controlled with traps.
On few occasions, I have discovered a resident garter snake inside the compost pile when I had been neglecting to water the pile as well as I should. If there had been mice, there weren’t any more.
I have had the WORST time when VOLES have discovered the compost pile …and the rest of the vegetable garden. It took dedicated efforts to trap the entire family, and then another family that moved into the vacuum. But it can be done.
The more attentive you are, with routine visits and activities to promote fastest decomposition rate by turning and adjusting moisture levels, the less chance for any kind of pests to see an opening to raid or move in.
*** For the past couple of years ***
I keep one of those solar charged, motion-activated, wide angle security LED floodlights pointed at my compost pile, and have seen it flashing during the night several times … to find some signs of disturbance in the morning (2 or 3 bits pulled out) but not a wholesale raid of scattered and dragged around debris.
Thank you applestar!
And what a crazy compost ride story! Thank you for sharing that.
I talked to the gal about the greens and the browns. She already knew something about that and recognized we need to have the compost actually composting. She ended up agreeing to just placing the greens in the container without the bags and I will add and mix in the browns. I will also acquire a large garbage can and dump the contents of the container into the garbage can. I will have many aeration holes and additionally will have a pipe with holes in it for aerating the center. A container something like the image I found below on the internet. I am concerned about the possible smell and if needed will later move it to another place in the yard.
Thanks again...!
Dave
And what a crazy compost ride story! Thank you for sharing that.
I talked to the gal about the greens and the browns. She already knew something about that and recognized we need to have the compost actually composting. She ended up agreeing to just placing the greens in the container without the bags and I will add and mix in the browns. I will also acquire a large garbage can and dump the contents of the container into the garbage can. I will have many aeration holes and additionally will have a pipe with holes in it for aerating the center. A container something like the image I found below on the internet. I am concerned about the possible smell and if needed will later move it to another place in the yard.
Thanks again...!
Dave