where are all the earthworms?

[rainbowgardener]

So I moved south in Sept. In Oct., I got my compost bin set up and just kept throwing stuff in it.

In Feb, after very mild winter, I went to turn it and get compost from it. I was surprised to find that the greens, mostly kitchen scraps had broken down, but the browns (fall leaves) had hardly broken down at all. So what compost there was, was mostly "dirt" scattered through the leaves. So I turned it over, harvested what little I could, and used the same leaves, just kept tucking more greens amongst them, rather than adding any more.

Usually I turn my compost pile over top to bottom, "down to the layer where the earthworms are." I went to do that a couple days ago and there was no earthworm layer! Yes there were a few earthworms here and there, but not the huge wriggling mass of them I'm used to. No wonder the compostables haven't been breaking down as fast! I mostly do cold composting and I imagine the earthworms do a lot of it. But I would estimate I have 1% of the earthworms I used to have in my Cincinnati compost pile. And I never did anything to put earthworms in that pile (in fact a couple times I subtracted a bunch of them out to put in worm bins and frequently I moved them with the compost into the garden beds).

And I noticed when I was gathering aged/composted horse manure and bedding from the horse ranch for my gardens, there were very few earthworms in it, also.

Is this a common Southern thing? Should I buy some earthworms or is it not a good thing to import them? If I just keep composting will I gradually breed more of them?

[imafan26]

I noticed that too when I tilled my garden over. Except I know where my earthworms went. The geckos eat them. I still have a healthy colony in my tomato pot. I was going to put the soil in the garden bed like I usually do but decided to hold back the earth worms. I missed a few worms and there they were 2 geckos just waiting to pounce on the worms.

[rainbowgardener]

hmm... don't have gekkos, but we do have a lot of five lined skinks around here.

"Five-lined Skinks eat mostly insects, including: crickets, grasshoppers, beetles, and caterpillars. They also eat spiders, earthworms, snails, slugs, isopods, other lizards, and small mice." https://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecolo ... _skink.htm

they haven't seemed to reduce my slug population any!

[applestar]

What a bummer that you are missing a vital population of your garden helpers. (I'm thinking you may need to be a bit more proactive in fertilizing until the situation is remedied) -- but I've no doubt that your gardening practices will tremendously increase earthworm friendly habitat in your garden and help them multiply.

I doubt that you will, but be sure not to get fresh horse manure, and maybe check with the ranch about when they last wormed the horses -- they usually have a regular schedule -- and avoid hitting their manure pile if there is any chance of new stuff having been put there in the last week or so.

As far as I know, only area that earthworms can endanger the environment is where the glaciers covered the region in the last ice age, and, if I remember correctly, along the Atlantic coast, that border is located somewhere in the middle of NJ -- north of me.

[rainbowgardener]

The pile of horse manure I was taking from had been sitting there untouched for six months before I started using it and then it took me another month or so of hauling it, then ordering the topsoil and shovelling the topsoil and all that. So it was at least seven months old before I planted into it. And the horse manure is the bottom layer, with the enriched topsoil on top. I didn't mix them, just layered and figured since the raised beds aren't that deep, eventually roots would grow down into the manure layer.

So I'm thinking it will be all right.

Yes, I've already been working harder at "fertilizing" than I usually do, just because of gardening new beds. They are full of very rich stuff, but all those nutrients are slow release. So I have done a lot of compost tea to help make the nutrients more available and a very little bit of organic fertilizer. Plus my usual compost and mulch. By a lot of people's standards I still haven't fertilized much, but since everything is growing almost visibly, I guess I'm doing okay...

[Taiji]

When I lived in Michigan as a young man, if we were going fishing the next day, we'd go out at night and catch huge nightcrawlers, especially if it had rained recently. They'd come up on top of the ground by the hundreds. I wonder if you go out at night in those conditions, if you'd see any in your yard. Maybe there just aren't as many down south in your new location like you say, I don't know!

When I was a little kid in West Virginia, I don't really remember much about worms. I suspect there were plenty. That's a little further south than MI.

[rainbowgardener]

What about where you are now in AZ?

No, I've been out in the garden at night here in all conditions from very dry to very wet with standing puddles and not seen any worms come out.

[imafan26]

I used to have a lot of earthworms. I couldn't even dig one spadeful without getting worms or cutting worms. I did have to stop irrigating for a while to get the soil dry enough to work. It rained a couple of times and I had to wait for the soil to dry out again. I don't want to work wet clay. I know earthworms don't like dry conditions. Maybe they went deeper and will come back up again when I start planting and watering more regularly.

If lizards ate snails, I have plenty of lizards around and I don't see them pounching on snails. They do like mosquitos, gnats, termites and beetles though. I don't have many of those in the garden. I saw one cabbage butterly and there was a little damage to the broccoli but I did not find the caterpillar and the damage stopped so I am thinking the lizards took care of that.

[applestar]

I found this --

Earthworms — Crops and Soils — Penn State Extension
https://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/s ... earthworms

Temperature
Most earthworms don't tolerate temperatures below freezing, nor do they tolerate high temperatures. Prolonged exposure to temperatures above 95°F kills them. They can move down into the soil to escape these adverse temperatures. Optimum temperatures are between 50 and 60°F.

[…]

Food supply
Quantity, quality, and placement of food influence earthworm populations. Earthworms eat organic residue that needs to be present in sufficient quantity. The quality of residue is also important. Residue with a high carbon to nitrogen (C:N) ratio is not very palatable for earthworms. Manure can help make it more palatable. Packed manure is an excellent food source for earthworms. In some cases, residue has to undergo some weathering before earthworms are able to digest it. Topsoil dwellers need smaller particles than subsoil dwellers, which can use large leaves, for example. The placement of food becomes a critical issue for some earthworm species. Topsoil dwellers prefer small organic residue particles incorporated into the soil, but subsurface dwellers need residue at the surface of the soil.

...they might be gathering under your raised beds right now

[Taiji]

Here in AZ earthworms do seem to come once a person starts watering an area and growing things. But nothing like it was in MI. I can get a pretty healthy population by growing cover crops and adding organic matter. It amazes me where they come from since they don't seem to be around naturally. Maybe they're down deep most of the time.

[rainbowgardener]

Maybe my earthworms have gone deep to escape the heat, but I didn't see them in Feb. either and we had very little freezing weather, just a few light frosts.

So, today I was digging compost out to use as top dressing (those leaves are still not all broken down, but at least they are in smaller pieces and crumbly now). Still only found a couple earthworms, but in one spot I did find a whole big clump of black soldier fly larvae. So maybe they are taking up some of the slack.

[Susan W]

I see a couple of things that may be going on here.

You moved a bit south, but not like going frozen tundra to tropical coast. Given slightly warmer winter temps, especially this past year, not a huge factor.
You've had your compost going 6+ months. About now your worms should be happy and making more worms, as they do. Kitchen scraps, coffee grounds etc. Do you recall how your compost pile looked in the 1st 6 -12 months in Cinnci?
As I have mentioned how many times before, I have an enriched dirt pile which is stuff from pots thrown in and scraps. If I am doing a mess of one thing, say peaches, try to spread around. I don't throw most weeds in there (I am so bad!) as what there is takes over. I toss the small container of kitchen stuff, turn, and let it go. Worms galore! I can't say much about the regular compost methods some of you do.

Worms, - they go deeper when cold, and when hot, but neither is an issue right now.

As a side note, I just sifted some out today for some pots I was refreshing and doing new. Worms everywhere from bitty to big as snakes. I get a few in each pot.

[rainbowgardener]

So not a southern thing, just a peculiarity of this property. I'm pretty sure when I first started a compost pile in Cincinnati, worms showed up quicker than this-- though that was fifteen years ago

And as noted, next to no worms in a pile of horse manure that had been sitting on the ground for months. Conceivably the horses could have been treated with something that came through in the droppings and kept worms away. But I don't think so and then it would be a very big coincidence that there are also next to no worms in my compost pile and I know nothing that was treated with anything went in there....

Odd...

I may import some worms and see what happens.

[Susan W]

A suggestion, only that.
Back in your shady 'back 40', start a mini-worm farm. This could be boxed or not, say 3 x 3. Put a few shovelfuls of your good top soil there, mix in some kitchen scraps and coffee grounds. If you don't have a few starter worms, I'm sure someone you know does. As you go along, put some scraps in there and some in your regular compost. If it hasn't rained, and you have the hose out, spray with water every few days. This mini-pile can be turned, especially to cover the veggie scraps.
A goody for them is a potato (clue from the worm guy here). Cube a raw potato, freeze in a baggie, take out and feed to worms.

If the worms are happy and making more worms, you can put a few in your regular compost, and add to your garden beds.

[Allyn]

Oh, I want a worm farm! It gets so freakin' hot here, I don't know what I'd do in the summer. It's early June and the temps are already 90+ F (32.2+ degrees C) in the afternoon. Can the farm be deep enough to save the worms if I use shade cloth to protect it from direct sunlight?

I don't think it's a Southern thing. I have worms in my compost pile so big they look like snakes, though they must be deep now because I didn't see as many over the last couple of weeks. (The heat and also the chickens have been doing an evening buffet on the pile -- eat a bug, leave some poop; sounds like a fair trade to me.)

I wonder if conditions at the property just weren't attractive to worms for so long it's just taking them a while to find you?

[Susan W]

Allyn, do you have an area under a tree for shade? With the heat (ugh!) may have to box about 10" high. With shade and some wiggle room, literally, should be fine.

[Allyn]

I do, but I want to keep the farm closer to the house so it's nearer the kitchen and the garden. If you think making it deep enough and using shade cloth will work, I'm definitely going to do it.

Thank you!

[Susan W]

Without tree shade, may go a bit deeper and wider (4 x 4?). Let us know what you come up with, and of course how the worms are doing.

[Taiji]

"A goody for them is a potato (clue from the worm guy here). Cube a raw potato, freeze in a baggie, take out and feed to worms. "

Hmm...that's interesting. Maybe good ol' earthworms are what ravaged the potatoes I left in the ground last fall for later digging! There was hardly anything left.