RedBeard1987
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Location: South suburbs Chicago. Zone 5a

Composting my concerns

I'm trying to get a long term compost process going and have some concerns... questions really. I want to keep it all local, everything I gather from my property. I have just under a half acre in the south chicago suburbs and on this property I have a few trees that provide me with plenty of leafs in the fall. I collected what I could last fall and stored what I could. I tossed some(wish I didnt) well I would like to keep a few piles going to have some fresh compost every year.

last year I gather what I could and made a small pile on the ground it the corner of my yard. it composted very well.....but.... I have a lot of what ive come to learn to be called "creeping charlie" it has completely invaded that pile and the one next to it. the pile broke down beautifully and turned to rich loose black compost. is this still usable? I was thinking of just dumping some of my stored leafs on top and adding greens this year in hopes of smothering out the creeping charlie, or should I forgo this pile and just start fresh? this creeping charlie is everywhere though so avoiding it will be difficult.

also as for a long term pile would it be ok to add things like corn stalks, pumkin and squash vines, things like that? and how long would it take to break down into a usable compost? would I have to start a new pile every year, or two years? how would a long term pile of hard to break down stuff like that take to cook down and what amount of material would make this a feasible idea? I'm talking all the tomato branches, pepper plants, pretty much all of what I would call "hard material" from the garden.

I want to be as self sustaining as I can. the goal is to be to a point where I never need to go to an outside source for compost, dirt, fertilizer and so on. basically I want a little homestead in the middle of suburbia, next year I seriously look into keeping egg laying hens.

here is a list of whats available to compost on my property.

Maple leaves(one tree...but its HUUUGE)
I have 6 pine trees of at least 2 or 3 different varieties.
lots of pine needles, pine-cones, and twigs that come down regularly.
and bunch of unidentified trees in my back yard. (lots of leaves basically)
lawn clippings.
garden leftovers (corn stalks, watermelon pumpkin cucumber zucchini vines, carrots greens, brussles sprouts stalks, and so on.)

main concerns are how to keep my compost from getting invaded by weeds and the like.
how to properly break down the hard to compost stuff like stalks and so on efficiently.
and anything really. I'm always up for learning new things. if you think I'm way off here let me know, I need some compost schooling here.

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digitS'
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Hi Redbeard! Welcome back Image!

That many trees on half an acre? I hope you have a location with southern exposure for your garden!

Well, I think you are in luck - altho I don't know about the weed :| . First off, the pine trees from my experience, seem to have deep roots and don't interfere as much with gardens as some trees. Those roots pull nutrients from a good distance and have made some very good compost in my garden. My Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening shows that the pine needles have as much nitrogen as cow manure ... Anyway, they compost well.

Your chickens will make an important contribution to your composting. Because of their dietary needs, you will almost have to bring in feed which they will make only a partial use of in egg production. Compost ingredients of high quality will be available ;).

I get frost-killed plants into the ground and clear my little veggie garden in the fall. That garden isn't my land and the property owners are happy to look at bare ground through the winter. What I try to do is dig 1 bed out of every 3. Everything from the 3 beds, all that coarse material, go under about 8" to 10" of soil. Those beds are in pretty good shape the following year but I still use a little bagged organic fertilizer on them. By the way, I've used dry pine needles for litter in a chicken coop and used the same technique with those :).

Now, you need some ideas on those weeds. I bet that they have both stolens (or, rhizomes) and seeds for reproduction, to contend with.

Steve

imafan26
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I do know creeping charlie. It lives in mulches. If you leave one node behind it comes back. Get rid of as much as you can. You may have to screen the compost. The weed multiplies by runners and by seed so you don't want it to flower. If your compost is not hot, it can come back. Cover the pile with a tarp or untreated burlap bags to block out light. Creeping charlie still needs light to grow.

You can also add all your vegetable waste from the house to the compost. I know you want to keep it local, but the best compost has multiple sources.

toxcrusadr
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Definitely use that compost now if it's crumbly and dark. No need to keep adding to it. I would turn it and remove and roots you see, and give it a chance to resprout. Once you are satisfied it is reasonably weed-free, use it this spring. Monitor the garden where you use it.

How fast compost gets done depends on the mix of brown to green, moisture and turning. You might want to have a batch process where you make a pile, and when it gets big enough (a cubic yard at least), turn and mix it and start a new pile. That way you always have a place for new materials and a batch nearing completion. You might end up with 3 or more piles at a time.

Turning the piles will discourage weeds from growing and getting a foothold. Also, a bin (maybe a triple pallet bin!) will reduce the surface area for leafy weeds to get sun compared to a rounded pile on the ground.

Places like Harbor Freight have a $10 machete. That and an old stump or chunk of wood is a great way to chop corn stalks and anything else large or long. Or you can just pile them up and whack away at the pile till it looks good. Watch your fingers.

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applestar
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Image ...I have a big scythe that I sometimes use to cut down green weeds and tall grass. Now, you probably know you have to sharpen frequently to get the best, frustration-free experience. I always have a sense of mischief when I'm out there in the cool hours just after dawn, running my sharpening stone along the scythe and hearing that eerie sound filling the peaceful morning air.

Now you are suggesting whacking away with a machete? :lol: 8) (It DOES sound like a good way to let out some steam, though. :twisted: )

RedBeard1987
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:28 pm
Location: South suburbs Chicago. Zone 5a

Ha I rather like the machete idea! I finally have a reason to buy one now, ha! I was planning on just putting them in a pile and lowering the lawn mower on them lol.

So I will attempt to use what I can from that pile that was invaded by the weeds.

I'm not completely sure that it's creeping charlie. I haven't confirmed it but was told by someone that that's what I have here. It's pretty much spread across the whole garden area. Now here's another question. Last spring I put down weed and feed around d my front and back yard but not near the garden. The pelletized weed and feed seemed to take care of it in those areas. Would you recommend the use of weed and feed near your garden? I specifically used a menards brand last year.

ButterflyLady29
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I got rid of a lot of my creeping charlie by spreading wood ashes on it. But it also got rid of all my dandelions, and I like dandelions. :( Supposedly creeping charlie doesn't like alkaline soil and high calcium levels. Borax also eliminates it but it's easy to overdose with borax. Otherwise just keep mulching your garden and pulling the weed as much as possible. I personally would not use weed & feed on my garden area.

imafan26
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Compost piles need to be built to be at least 3x3 ft with layers of browns and greens. It can be bigger, but not smaller to cook properly. It needs a critical mass. Water between the layers and throw a shovel full of manure or soil or fertilizer between the layers. Once you get it big enough, you can go bigger than 3x3, water it well, but not soppy. I find it gets hotter if it is built in a day. Gather all the browns and store it on the side. When you are ready to build the pile collect all of your greens. Manure would be a green since it is high nitrogen. Lay sticks and branches on the ground to let air in the pile and give the water somewhere to drain. Start layering about 4-6 inches of well chopped up browns. Add a layer of fresh leaves and kitchen waste ( you can freeze kitchen waste to collect it) also about 4-6 inches. Add a shovel full of manure and a shovel of dirt to add microbes and water. Keep adding layers until the pile is complete ending with a layer of browns. About half way through the build out install a 3-4 ft 4 inch PVC pipe in which you have drilled air holes. You can use a large bit or hole saw. The pipe will infiltrate more air into the pile to keep it aerobic. Once it is finished start collecting browns for another pile, do not keep adding to the same pile. Some people build the pile in a wire cage but you can go au naturel. Let the pile sit. If it was built right and there is enough water in the pile it should start cooking in 24 hours. It is best to build the pile in summer. Winter slows microbes down. It should start steaming. 4 days after the pile starts cooking, you can start turning. The more the pile is turned the faster it breaks down. If you let it sit, it will eventually break down but it will be slower.

If you have a lot of tree trimmings, you can build the pile from that and add your vegetable waste to that. Chip the tree trimmings very small or get or rent a chipper. tree trimmings has the right balance of greens and browns except that it is only one source, which would not be the richest compost.

toxcrusadr
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Layering is good IF you have batches of greens (like your kitchen scraps every few days...you are composting those I assume), and you save some leaves or other browns to layer with them. BUT if you have a large amount of both at once, it's actually best to mix them thoroughly before piling up. Layers will get mixed up on the first turning but if you can do it at the outset, so much the better. It works well for heavy spring grass clippings and last year's leaves.

As for fertilizer...no great need for it unless you are real short on greens/N. And if you use it a shovelful is probably way too much. ;-)

B-T-S
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I make compost piles out of 4 pallets, just stand them on their side and make a square. The pallets are slatted so air can get in and if you have problems with weeds you can cover the compost pile with a black piece of plastic. The black plastic will also make the compost heat up more and it will get done sooner. When your compost is done, just take down the pallets, or just one pallet and it makes it easier to scoop out.

I used to compost that way and it worked great, now my gardens have grown to be to big and I need lots more compost.
So I started composting this way now. I use my little 20hp Kubota tractor and a dump truck. I break open large round bales of straw and cover it with a couple truck loads of cattle manure, once the straw starts breaking down I can just scoop it up and pile it a couple feet away from the original pile, that stirs the compost and gets rid of weeds. A couple months ago I hauled in 8 tuck loads of manure, but it was dumped straight on the garden, I'm now needing to haul more for compost.

toxcrusadr
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Regarding weed n feed, it should not affect most plants if it's not deposited right on their root zones. I have raised beds (only 6") and while I don't use a ton of lawn chemicals, I have used 2,4-D weed n feed to cut down the dandelions a bit so the neighbors with perfect lawns don't think I'm a complete bum. I have not had problems going right along the borders of the gardens with the spreader. I did lose a mature grape vine a couple years ago that's right near the property line - they are quite sensitive to 2,4-D and my neighbor is one of those Lawn Guys. He might have killed it by using too much. But the root zone extended under his yard so what I said above holds true. Avoid putting it right on or around plants you want to keep.



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