Jason L
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Re: Compost question

I just ran into a problem and I didn't think about it until my dad reminded me when we were talking about our gardens. The lawns at mine and his houses are chemically treated. So it is probably a bad idea to use it. My uncle, now no longer with us, was an avid gardener. According to my dad he refused to take grass cut from lawns that were chemically treated for use in his garden.

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GardeningCook
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Yup - it's not a good idea to use chemically-treated lawn clippings in compost.

Jason L
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Should I go ahead and start collecting kitchen scraps now and combine them with dried leaves in the fall? We usually have tea bags, potato peels, scraps from green leaf and romaine, banana peels, apple peels, melon rinds, grapes (the wrinkly ones that tend to taste yucky), tomato skins from canning, and rare occasions fruit and veggies that started to go bad and no longer edible. Typically only one cup of coffee is made almost every morning in a single cup k cup machine using a reusable coffee filter and folgers coffee. I could have the used grounds saved in an empty folgers coffee container keeping the lid on it until it's relatively full. I'm told if you let the used grounds sit around they will mold. Is that true and should I be concerned if they do?

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applestar
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Why can't you start composting now? Did I miss something?

Kitchen scraps need to go outside within approx 3-5 days max. depending on temperature and how they are kept. Dedicated folks take them out daily. Some people freeze the scraps to prevent spoilage, and then take them out.

Coffee grounds is extremely mold-susceptible. White-green mold most of the time. Occasionally I get mushroom like colony in the old K-cup which I personally think is interesring..... I collect the ones DH and I use and empty them, but some K-cups are impossible to open easily. I only buy the easy to tear open ones. For myself, I also use Eco-cup reusables. They are easier to empty after drying for a day.

Jason L
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I can start now I just wasn't sure if I would be doing something wrong only having kitchen scraps until fall clean up. As I won't have dried leaves until then. Which around here is typically early November.

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applestar
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No, you do need to combine with BROWNS but there are all kinds of BROWNS not just fall leaves.

I save the kitchen scraps for compost in "compost bag" which is grocery store paper bag lined plastic bag, with paper pulp egg carton or fast food beverage carrier in the bottom for air space and to absorb excess moisture. While not decorative, this lasts (doesn't get stinky or moldy) for a few days because it's not overly wet, not tightly enclosed -- and it is easier to toss stuff in for everybody involved. (On the opposite end of the process, I can't handle putting stinky moldy compost ingredients in the compost pile).

"Compost Bag" is used for all kitchen scraps including nut shells, paper coffee filters and teabags, used and grease stained papers like pizza boxes that can't be put in paper recycling, mixed with all used paper towels and napkins, discarded paper bags, paper towel core and other mostly unprinted cardboard, occasional "deemed safe" printed paper, etc. So there are already a fair amount of "BROWNS" in there. During the winter, overwintering-in-the-house plants shed leaves and clippings, too.

(FWIW, I tried to install an under cabinet trash bin drawer to keep the Compost Bag out-of-sight, but my family is too used to the convenience of having the bag out in the open. :roll: :| )

Toilet paper cores are saved separately in the bathrooms but I put them in the compost pile, and that bag also gets other scraps of household (non glossy) "deemed safe" paper waste -- things like natural tooth paste cardboard box, etc., trimmed hair.... So this bag is the main receptacle for the rest of the dry household BROWN compost ingredients.

Once they go out to be put in the compost pile, I add yard waste greens and browns so they even out to more-or-less correct ratio.

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rainbowgardener
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Do read the stickies at the top of this Composting Forum. A ton of good information for getting started composting. There's composting 101 and composting basics and then there's one that's a list of green and brown ingredients for your pile, to give you more ideas, if you are looking for more browns now or more greens in winter.

I do keep my compost pile going all year round. If it is really too cold and snowy in winter for me to trek back to the compost pile, I just put the full bucket out on the screened porch (where critters can't get to it - the lids are tight fitting and I don't think they could open them, but you never know about those raccoons) and let it freeze and bring in a clean one. When the weather breaks, I dump it. The stuff in the pile breaks down slowly due to freeze - thaw action and then the pile starts working again when it warms up.

I agree with Applestar. You can save dry browns. I collect lots of bags of leaves in the fall (pick up what people put out at the curb) and save them and use them up over a period of months. You can NOT save wet greens like kitchen scraps, short of freezing them and this time of year, that would mean using up space in your freezer, that you have better uses for. And you can NOT make a pile just of kitchen scraps. But you can keep adding the kitchen scraps to the pile with what ever other dry "browns" you can find. My work shreds documents, so I can bring home big bags of shredded paper (or I could - I will be going in soon for my last day ever, as I have retired! :D ). If you read newspapers or the kind of grocery store magazines that are printed on newsprint, those can be torn in pieces (doesn't have to be small, note paper size is ok) and added. Get creative and keep composting! :)

Susan W
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Jason, Suggestion # umpteen.
Today, evening, take out bowl of scraps to garden. Dig small hole with shovel or hand trowel anywhere spare digging up plant. Put scraps in, cover with dirt. (I don't like pathways as they are compacted, and not so good for worm friends)
Tomorrow. Repeat, in different place.

Repeat, daily.
KISS
Don't over think
Not rocket science

Jason L
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Got it, so I need to check the browns and see what I have to add to the kitchen scraps. That was the part I wasn't sure on. I wasn't sure if the ratio thing was a gather this now add that quite some time later. Ok browns I would have regularly are: toilet paper tubes (about a dozen a month), egg shells (a couple dozen a month), dryer lint (almost all cotton clothing can that be used), and leaves (during the fall). In the winter we would have ash from the fireplace. I don't understand how to calculate the ratio. I was finding the common denominator and adding the fractions but coming up with different numbers that in the 101 guide. So there must be a formula or something I'm not picturing to come to the over all ratio. All can figure is if most of my browns is paper it's going to take a ton of greens to balance that.

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rainbowgardener
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Egg shells are calcium and good in the compost, but I don't think they count as "browns." Browns need to be high Carbon; that is what balances the Nitrogen. I think wood ash is also not a brown. The wood was a brown before it was burned, but most of the carbon burned up and now it is mainly potassium (potash). It is good in your compost pile in small amounts. But it is quite alkaline. Some people with acid soils add lime every year to raise pH ("sweeten" the soil). If you are one of those, then you can be more generous with the wood ash as it will accomplish the same. If like me, you have alkaline soil, you have to be pretty wary of wood ash. I see that you got these from the list in the first page of the green/ brown stickie, but unfortunately, I think those are wrong. Sawdust is a good choice though, if you have access to that. Corn cobs. When I run out of last year's fall leaves in the summer, I buy a bale of straw from the local feed store. Cheap and lasts a long time!

You can over think all this. In general, if you have roughly equal VOLUMES (not weights) of browns and greens, you are fine. My compost pile tends to be somewhat higher in browns in the winter and somewhat higher in greens in the summer, but it all works ... I don't calculate anything.

Jason L
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Good to know. I don't know the pH of my soil. is that something I can find out by doing something myself? So it looks like just toilet paper tubes and dryer lint are all I have right now until fall unless I overlooked something. I do have another question. Local grocery store is getting corn on the cob in and they have a lot of husks they just throw out on a daily basis. it isn't organic corn though. Is it ok to use that for compost? I could end up with dozens of gallons of corn husks in a single week. then I'd have to find the browns to add to it.

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Newspaper torn into strips is my source of browns at this time of year along with corrugated carbboard also torn up 1!

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applestar
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Do you have shrub trimmings? Do you prune anything? This time of the year, I have to deal with overgrown shrubs that I didn't realize were going to get that big after the spring growth spurt, some trees that get a bunch of watersprouts at the base, tall shrubs and trees that are overhanging the garden and casting too much shade, weedy Rose of Sharon spouted seedlings and saplings, etc. Their green leaves are not strictly brown but still have more carbon content than just herbaceous grass and weeds. And the thinner new growth branches are carbon/brown but break down fairly quickly.

I have an Arrowwood Viburnum shrub that really needs to be thinned and cut shorter in some cases, but a robin built a nest in it and is currently sitting on her eggs.... :|

I answered the corn husk/cob in compost in your mulch thread -- there is definitely an overlap --but essentially "yes" to using in compost pile.

Jason L
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We are going to tear out the two shrubs we have, sooner than later. I could save them and grind em up. Other than that we just have trees in the yard witch in the fall we get a lot of leaves (several 30 gallon trash cans full of shredded by blower/vac) and some twigs and small branches from storms (used as kindling for the fireplace). I've been saving the weeds I've been pulling in a 5 gallon bucket in the garage. I'll ask the produce department to save the corn husks for me and get started with using them for both mulch and compost.

Jason L
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Progress report: I have a two quart 10 inch round plastic food storage container under the sink. So far no objections to using it. I noticed stuff in there I didn't add to it. And a brown paper bag in the bathroom labeled toilet paper tubes. Which I found 4 tubes in there I didn't add to it. I dug a 2-3 foot deep hole about big around as slightly narrower than a lid of a 30 gallon trash can. And covered it with said lid and set a heavy brick on top of the lid in case of curious critters. I wasn't quite sure how to break up the one corn cob. It's too much for my expensive food processor to break apart. I hope I didn't dull the blade in the attempt to grind it up a bit. It chopped everything else up nice. I also have the 5 gallon bucket full of pulled weeds now. I keep missing the produce manager at the grocery store to ask about getting the corn husks from them. They throw them away as soon as the bag is full they have next to the corn display.

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applestar
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If you want to break up the corn cob put on hard surface -- brick, cobblestone... slightly concave flat rock is best actually -- then smash with hammer or better yet with something larger headed like hand sledge or a handy rock. (I keep what I call "handy rock" -- a goose egg sized hard rock that fits nicely in hand, often with flat bottom-- in strategic places around the garden for when I don't feel like going back for hammer/sledge)

toxcrusadr
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You can break corn cobs in your hands if you're in reasonably good shape. I can get 3 pieces out of one before they get too small to get a grip on.

I've used grass clippings in the compost regardless of whether they are treated, as the typical herbicides will break down rapidly in the compost. I just wouldn't put them down on the garden as mulch, especially if the grass was sprayed with liquid chemicals (as opposed to granulated).

Jason L
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We had dinner over my parents tonight. I have the rind from a half of a medium water melon and corn husks from 8 good sized ears of corn. My mom flipped out when I told her I wanted the rind for compost. She was saying it will stink and attract flies and you will get a ticket if a neighbor complains. And I was saying not if done right. I made a mistake though and thought corn cobs were greens and didn't save them. But seeing they are on the browns list I maybe should have saved them. So far I have one corn cob, 6 toilet paper tubes (cut up small), stem part of leaf lettuce leaves from 5 large salads, a very few berries that molded, skin of one apple, and coffee grounds from 6 k-cup single portion sized servings. I want to confirm dryer lint from mostly cotton clothing, I can use that for compost right? And if so it is a brown right? I have about 3 quarts of it fluffy as it is in the lint basket. If I stuffed it in a 2 quart pitcher it might hold it all.

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applestar
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Good work!

Yep corn cobs are great additions. If you are not too particular, you can even buy and add corncob bedding sold for pets. I had some left after the kids gerbils died -- got mine from the feedstore in a brown bag tied with jute string.

I prefer all cotton, but yes. Natural fabric lint is brown and can be added -- don't use dryer sheets and fabric softener if you want to be organic. Not so nice chemicals in those with residues that remain on clothes (and lint).

Jason L
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The lint is blueish color at least it looks like that to me. Here is a picture of what most of it looks like. Except for that reddish part I don't think there is hardly any of it like that. Also I forgot to add in my last post I requested the produce department save me corn husks on friday. I'm out by the grocery store that day so hopefully they will save them like they said they would. The first batch I'm going to use as mulch then I can get more for compost. I still need to find materials to cover if I dig a trench down the two long walk ways in the garden. The hole I dug is in the cross way in the middle where I can step around it. Oh and the plastic trash can lid has a hole is in about 1/2 inch maybe 3/4 inch round Should I elevate the lid slightly using say half inch thick wood stakes or is that small hole on the top enough ventilation for a 2-3 foot deep by 2-3 foot diameter hole?
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Northern-Gardener
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Hi, you may have already come to a solution, but I will give my impute too :) I lived with many housemates at one time and we did save scraps for our garden. First, it was nicer to just place them in a coffee container (currently we use the folgers plastic containers). The best reason for saving the scraps is so you don't fill up your trash can with smelly foods and create a long standing stink in the house. I personally don't like the smell of 'leftovers' in the house either so I tend to empty the container I use into the compost pile about every 2-3 days and stir up the compost with a pitch fork. I then rinse the container bring inside and reuse. If it helps to use a 'pretty' container, by all means make it beautiful on the outside :) I suppose the winter months are the hardest for us Northerners I may just use a 5 gal pail this year and dump everything in it over the winter and leave outside. I don't really know any other options for the winter. Good luck!

toxcrusadr
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Whether to use fertilizer depends on how your plants are growing. But it sounds like you're trench composting in the aisles, which not only takes time but also isn't right up around the plants. So your plants may benefit from a little fertilizer. Just don't overdo - a handful goes a LONG way. My dear wife has actually killed plants by sprinkling granular fert around them too heavily and getting granules onto the leaves.

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rainbowgardener
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I think we already discussed this earlier, but re: "My mom flipped out when I told her I wanted the rind for compost. She was saying it will stink and attract flies" : Your mom is just wrong. Sure if you just put your watermelon rind out on your patio and left it, that would be true. But mixed into a properly managed compost pile and covered with fall leaves or other "browns," there will be NO odor and you will not have flies buzzing around your compost pile.

I keep a 2 gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid (laundry soap and kitty litter come in things like that) under the sink to keep compost scraps. It doesn't smell as long as the lid isn't opened. If left too long, the smell may knock you over when you open the lid! A coffee can I would have to empty every day, might not even be able to stuff all the scraps from one dinner for two into it. If you cook from scratch from your garden veggies, you create quite a bit of leftovers.

There have been times in winter when I didn't feel like trekking through snow to get to the compost pile. I stick the bucket out on the screened porch. No critters can get to it there and it just freezes. And I just start with a new bucket. When ever the weather breaks enough for me to feel like doing it, I empty all the buckets on the compost pile.

Jason L
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The composting is going pretty good. All but the lint and ends of the corn stalks have decomposed into indistinguishable stuff. I have a lot of corn husks I didn't have time to use as mulch yet and I'm not sure at this point what to do with them. I believe they have started to decompose in the open plastic bag they are in. Should I proceed to compost them instead of using for mulch and get more for mulch? I only have half the garden covered with corn husks. Half of that other half will have almost nothing in it in a week or two as the leaf lettuce and romaine have completed their cycle. I will eat what I can of them and the rest will get composted. I planted too much of it as I anticipated not being the only one eating it and ended up being the only one eating it. Once I pull up those the only thing left on that end are the pepper plants around the outer edge and the onions and garlic. I'm guessing that they will remain in the ground until the end of the season. I am planning on using that area for compost. And maybe reserving a small area to attempt to grow some spinach and cilantro to be harvested just before the end of the season.

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rainbowgardener
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My onions have already been pulled and my garlic should be now, I just haven't had any round tuits lately ( :) ). I'm a bit south of you, but still I wouldn't expect onions and garlic to stay in the ground all season. (I guess that depends some on varieties and when you planted.)

You still have plenty of time to plant more stuff in the freed up areas. You could plant beans, corn (if you have room) or summer squash now. Or you could wait just little while and plant cold weather stuff like lettuce, spinach, kale, broccoli for fall crop.



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