Thinking about getting into composting

[redneck647]

I haven't gotten around to starting to make my own compost yet. This year I’d like to try making a small 3'x3' pile.
I was thinking of getting some pallets to make a bin out of but I'm starting to wonder. Do I really need a bin? It seems like mixing the pile would be a lot easier just letting it sit out and that would let more air get to it? Am I missing something?
My second question s how much of a fire hazarded is a compost pile? Looking around on line I'm getting mixed reports. I'd like to put the pile close to the garden to make things easier but the best spot there would be right in the brush line with a lot of tall grass around it. I know I probably will end up not keeping up with the pile as well as I should so how likely would it be to set the woods on fire?

[tomc]

I haven't gotten around to starting to make my own compost yet. This year I’d like to try making a small 3'x3' pile.
I was thinking of getting some pallets to make a bin out of but I'm starting to wonder. Do I really need a bin? It seems like mixing the pile would be a lot easier just letting it sit out and that would let more air get to it? Am I missing something?

A little wire to tie up the corners of four, or seven pallets isn't hard to do, and easy to open up to unload pile.

My second question s how much of a fire hazarded is a compost pile? Looking around on line I'm getting mixed reports. I'd like to put the pile close to the garden to make things easier but the best spot there would be right in the brush line with a lot of tall grass around it. I know I probably will end up not keeping up with the pile as well as I should so how likely would it be to set the woods on fire?

After only fourty years of trying, I have never managed to set a compost pile on fire. And I tried really hard too...

[rainbowgardener]

NOT at all a fire hazard. You will be lucky if you can get it warm enough to cook the weed seeds.

You need a bin to keep the materials from blowing around the yard and/or being gotten into by critters and eaten and dragged around the yard. Also you want to keep it piled higher than it will stay on its own. The center of the pile is where the most composting action is.

You do want air through the pile, but the pallets are open enough for that.

[redneck647]

Thanks.
I didn't think of critters getting into it but they get into everything here anyway. Not really much I can do if one of the bears decides to go rutting though it. Lol.
I won't have much in the line of table scraps for mine. Mostly sawdust, leaves, cut grass and horse manure with some pulled weeds tossed in. I'm kinda hoping that will help keep the wild life’s interest in it down.

[hendi_alex]

My first few years, I just made a circle of 1/2 inch hardware cloth. It was three feet tall about five feet around. A small pile like yours will generate very little heat, but the manure will definitely help. I wouldn't be without my compost pile. The endless stream of leaves, clippings, weeds, kitchen scraps, and chicken manure provide the best amendment possible to establish healthy, happy plants. We probably generate about 100 cubic feet of coarse compost per year. Ours cooks for two seasons before use. We have three bins, two for the young material, and one for the final compost which takes about 1/2 the original volume. If turned regularly, the compost will form much more quickly. Ours only gets turned one or two times before its use.

[imafan26]

The only compost fires I know of are from commercial facilities because they have very big piles that can get smoldering hot. Small backyard piles that are turned regularly, usually not. To get a pile hot enough, you need to balance, greens, browns and water. Many people never get reach that completely and cold compost instead.

[rainbowgardener]

Well maybe you can't keep a bear out, if it is determined (NOT one I have to worry about), but you can keep out rats, mice, voles, shrews, raccoons, woodchucks, possums, etc, all of which would be eating all the table scraps out of my pile, if it weren't well enclosed.

RE: Mostly sawdust, leaves, cut grass and horse manure with some pulled weeds tossed in.

All of those but the sawdust are "greens" (soft, moist, nitrogen rich). Needs to be balanced with equal volume of "browns" (hard, dry, carbon rich). The sawdust is definite brown, (and maybe the leaves, depending on if they are green leaves or brown fall leaves), but if you put too much sawdust in, it packs down and shuts out air. Straw would be a good brown. When I run out of fall leaves to feed in to my compost pile with the greens, I buy a bale of straw. It doesn't pack down much and helps keep air going through the pile.

[hendi_alex]

Interesting here, that we live very rural on 130 acres. Compost bin backs right up against the woods. I never see any evidence of critters getting in the pile even though kitchen scraps are tossed on top multiple times per week.

[rainbowgardener]

I have noticed that before, that the country gardeners around here seem to have less critter trouble (except for maybe bears! ), than us city gardeners. Perhaps your critters are still more "wild" and used to getting their own food from natural sources. Our city critters have gotten adapted to getting their food from human sources (garbage cans etc). It is not as bad in mid-winter, because the raccoons do hibernate when it is cold enough (already have shown their faces a bit now that we have had some warmer days). In the growing season, if I put any cooking scraps in a compost pile that doesn't have a secure lid, the raccoons will immediately find it. They are very messy eaters, so not only eat the scraps, but spread the pile all over. Doesn't matter that any time I put scraps or any green stuff in the pile I cover it with a thick layer of browns; they will take the pile apart and find the scraps.

I can't use fish emulsion type fertilizers either. The raccoons dig up all the plants trying to find the fish!

[redneck647]

I could make the pile a little bigger but I was thinking smaller would be easier to manage. Would 4x4 or 5x5 actually be easier to start with?

And the info online is a bit sketchy at times so I wasn’t sure about fires. I'm guessing the info I so on that was just for the giant piles then.

The leaves I’d use are brown. For the sawdust I have a woodshop so I have a good bit of it. I just didn't realize too much at a time would cause problems. I kinda want to keep from buying much extra for the garden so I'm hoping to come up with things here to use.
I have access to free compost that I could use but its really full off weeds. And weeds that we don't have here around the house so I don't want to bring it in. for now I’ve been using a 20year old manure pile back in the woods. It has less weeds and they're from around here but eventual it will be used up. I'm hoping with my own compost pile I can keep things cheap and use it to keep the soil in a usable condition.

As for the animals I don't know if they would tear up the compost here much or not. The deer and groundhogs eat the garden plants but other then that we don't have too much trouble. It my be that the animals here have more access to other more nature food souses so they use them? Not much point in coming out in the open to dig food out of a pile when you can find it on the forest floor.

[rainbowgardener]

4x4x4 is reputed to be the ideal size for having a core that heats up well.

You will just have to test it out, see how the critters in your area do with it. If you aren't putting table scraps in it, it will be less attractive. I do lots of from scratch cooking and have tons of cooking scraps. (You have to eat the stuff your garden produces, right? )

[redneck647]

Thanks. I'll make it 4x4 then. I think I’ll drive some posts into the ground and try fitting the pallets down over them. But that might change by spring.
Also I’ll admit most of the things I growl I really don't like. I just grow them for family members.

[rainbowgardener]

oh dear! I was going to say grow what you like, but if there are not many veggies you like, you may also need to expand your range a little. I grew up eating only frozen veggies and mainly only corn, peas, lima beans, green beans. Over the years I have had to keep getting used to new things. Most recently being a member of a CSA, we got lots of stuff I wasn't familiar with like bok choi and Chinese Cabbage... I had to keep looking up recipes and figuring out what to do with it, but I ended up liking them.

[toxcrusadr]

If you have enough material for a 4x4 bin, assuming 3 ft high, that's 48 cu ft. You might consider a double or triple bin, with each section smaller than that, which would allow continuous batches. A bin 6 ft. long x3x3ft. divided into 3 sections is only a bit bigger than that (54 cu ft). Make the first bin larger, the center a bit smaller, the third smaller yet. Turn each batch into the next bin and start a new batch in the larger bin. This is a good system if you need to produce a lot of compost fast, and/or have some ready to use almost all the time.

[redneck647]

I started the garden to grow my corn, tomatoes, and hot peppers. I do eat the greenbeans too but most of the garden is just there to give some variety and rotate things around. I don't mind growing things for other people.
I hope to try growing peas this year. Some peas I like and some I don't so I’ll see if these are the right ones.

I was kinda thinking if eventually making a second bin next to the first but my research hasn't gotten far enough to get into all that yet.
As for the amount of materials I don't know how much I have. I kinda figured sticking in what I have and then just adding more as its available. My shop creates a few gallons of sawdust a month and my girlfriend has a horse so.... also my grass clippings might work as a cross between hay and weeds as rarely as we mow most of it so that might help with the sawdust problem.

[Rairdog]

I just dig a trough about 18 inches deep. Put the dirt from trough in the garden or beds. Then fill in the trough with leaves, grass and scraps. A partly shady spot in the yard that is always a weed problem is a great place.

[toxcrusadr]

A horse will produce a prodigious amount of manure. According to some online fact sheets, a horse can produce 30 lb of poop and 2.5 gal of pee per day. Per DAY. You should have no trouble filling several bins if you're willing to collect that much. :-]

I found that after a few years of aggressively collecting materials and adding compost to my poor soils, I could slack off and go into maintenance mode. Now I pretty much compost what comes from my own kitchen and yard. If your soil is poor and you're going to amend it on a large scale, a multi bin system might be just the ticket for high volume throughput.

[rainbowgardener]

Between the sawdust and the horse manure, you have more composting materials than you can possibly use unless you want to go into the business of selling compost!

But both sawdust and manure have the tending to pack down and exclude air and moisture problem. So you will want to have a few other ingredients in there that will tend to loosen it up and keep air pockets. Horses usually have straw bedding in their stalls. If your horse manure comes complete with straw bedding, that will mostly take care of it. Otherwise throw in a few twigs and rough stuff, remains of tough stems of stuff you cut down in your garden, etc.

[Susan W]

I suggest getting into the composting. You have space and additives. You'll be surprised how much can come out of your kitchen once you get into this. Examples being any peels, stems etc, coffee ground with the filter, tea bags.

Slightly off topic, don't think you have to devote all of this garden energy into veggies! Think about more flowers, herbs, interesting plants. Most people on this board grow veggies, especially peppers and tomatoes. That is good. I for one don't touch peppers, and the squirrels like to mess with any tomatoes. My strong suit is herbs, flowers and different plants (also sell at the farmers market).

Gardening is work, but keep it fun and rewarding. There's lots of trial and error, I'm very good at both.

[treehopper]

I compost without cages or containers. Allow for 3 piles as big or small as you choose. One space is for the active pile you add to regularly, one space is for "finished" compost, and the third space is where the active pile gets turned to on a weekly or bi weekly basis. Living in a somewhat country area, some of the turning of the compost is taken care of by the critters, but they really don't scatter it too far.

[redneck647]

My soil is still pretty bad. I didn't want to pay to bring in better soil so I'm slowly working on improving it.
Sadly the horse's bedding is sawdust....
I could gather some sticks and toss in to help but I don't know that they would compost that quickly. At the end of the growing season the tomato, pepper, and potato plants will get tossed in so that should help. I could try tossing in the corn stalks to help but I read they should be cut up first?

Susan W I have some berry bushes too. They just aren’t in the garden itself. I never had much interest in growing flowers but I’ve been thinking about trying some in the garden just to try bringing in some extra bugs.

[toxcrusadr]

It's good to chop up stalky things into 6-12" pieces. You can use a sharp shovel, or if you want, go to the military surplus store and a get a $10 machete for hacking through jungles. Works great using an old stump or a piece of wood for a chopping block. You can also use the mower.

Re: sawdust and compaction, you can do simple things to help it. If you have a pitchfork or anything else sharp, poke holes into the pile now and then for aeration. More frequent turning helps a lot but it's more work. You can gauge by temp and odor - if it's hot and smelling pretty bad, probably not enough air. Although it is poop so it will not smell like roses even on a good day. ;-]

[redneck647]

Luckily I already have 2 machetes. I also have a pitchfork that would probably work for making holes. And yes I don't really expect it to have the greatest smell but its far enough from the house that I think it would be ok.

[toxcrusadr]

What I always say is get in there and try it, observe the results, and adjust. You'll get the hang of it.

Happy rotting!

[tomc]

Not really much I can do if one of the bears decides to go rutting though it. Lol.

Bear are pretty utilitarian. They will turn your compost if you have added composting worms. Mostly they will stir the top of the bin to check for yummy kitchen scraps.

If bear are a regular visitor to your compost, its better to put kitchen scraps out some place else. They may not be that destructive to a bin but will scare the humanure out of civilians.

[redneck647]

Well looks like there might be a change of plans on this whole set up. I lost my girlfriend so no free horse manure...
Usually we get at least one bear hanging around a little bit each year. I don't mind them too much unless they cause trouble.

[toxcrusadr]

Please tell me the bear didn't run off with your gf !

Seriously though, sorry to hear that, and I'm sending positive thoughts for abundant compostables to come your way soon.

[redneck647]

No wasn't any bears involved in that one.
I'll see what I can do once the snow goes away. I'll probably end up with a really unbalanced pile but it might work. We'll see.

[toxcrusadr]

You know what they say, It All Leads Back to Compost. Eventually.

Also, composting can be therapeutic and stress-relieving.

[rainbowgardener]

Also, composting can be therapeutic and stress-relieving.

For us weird gardener types anyway, it really is.

I was out over the weekend taking advantage of the warm up (this coming weekend it is going down to 5 degrees again ). I couldn't turn my old compost pile, it was still frozen solid, but I did start a new compost pile, with a bunch of accumulated kitchen scraps, plus fall leaves, plus dead stuff trimmed from the garden. (When the weather is nasty, I wimp out and just put the full bucket of kitchen scraps on the screened in porch. Critters can't get it there and it just freezes, so doesn't get real nasty. So I had 3 full buckets of kitchen scraps!)

Anyway my point in there was that just being out in relatively mild weather and enjoying the garden and playing in the compost and thinking about all the lovely stuff that was going to be grown out of this, made me so happy!

[redneck647]

I wish I could start something yet. Everything’s still under snow here. But next month I can start planting indoors.

[rainbowgardener]

When is your average last frost date?

Next month sounds late if you are planning to start any cool weather stuff. I start broccoli, cabbage, kale etc 11-12 weeks before my average last frost date. The transplants go in the ground outside a month before my last frost date. Once hardened off, they are extremely frost hardy and benefit from the cool weather. Once it gets hot, they will tend to bolt and be done.

This year I started broccoli and cabbage seed , etc indoors under lights, 1/24 (last year it was 1/17). I will be aiming to have the transplants in the ground around mid Mar (which is next month!). My average last frost date is mid-April.

[redneck647]

My last frost date is May 20th.
For the cauliflower my schedule says to start at the end of march and transplant outside at the end of April but I may be doing it wrong. I've never had success with it. The cabbage I sow outside mid April. It seems to work as long as the wildlife doesn’t eat it them first.

[redneck647]

I think I found a new source of greens. I found a cabinet full of canned food. Of course they all expired at least 10 years ago... I was going to use some of it as fishing bait but the corn and stuff seems to have started fermenting. The meat I’ll save as catfish bait but I'm thinking of mixing the vegetables and fruit in with my sawdust to start the pile.
I know this might draw more attention from wildlife but is there any reason the old canned food shouldn't be used?

[toxcrusadr]

It will work just fine. Doesn't matter if kitchen scraps are cooked or raw, put them in. Just make sure you mix or layer with some browns (I think you had sawdust) to balance. Most of us put in kitchen scraps all winter, and by spring it's halfway to being compost. I can usually turn that pile (actually a plastic bin) in early spring (March) and by the end of planting season (May-June) I have a batch ready to use.

[redneck647]

Yes I still have plenty of sawdust. And thanks. I just wanted to make sure first. Hopefully I'll get my pallets this month and start the pile.

[treehopper]

Don't wait for the pallets...start now dump your compostables on the snow if need be. I run out a couple gallons of coffee grounds green trimmings egg shells every other day or so all winter long. When the spring comes you'll have a leg up on the compost pile. If you don't have a fork, get one. Turning compost is good as a low impact workout, and there's no fees or membership dues.

[redneck647]

Lol. I don't think you understand my situation here. I have an almost 2 foot snow drift between the house and the future pile. and more keeps coming. plus I don't think anything I toss out will break down while frozen solid. I really don't think its worth it just yet.
I do have a fork somewhere and will try to turn it from time to time. I need to get back into shape any way. Lol.

[toxcrusadr]

At some point you'll get cabin fever and it'll be sunny and you'll want to put on boots and slog through that snow drift. No, it won't break down while frozen solid, but it will when it thaws. Whereas if you throw it out you don't get any compost. All depends on how bad you want compost and how cabin-feverish you are.

[redneck647]

Well over the past few weeks I got the bin set up and started the pile. So far its mostly browns from leaning up around the garden but hopefully that will get corrected.
One new question I have is on weed seeds. I read that I shouldn’t toss weeds that have gone to seed into it because the seeds could survive and sprout in the garden. However tossing spoiled tomatoes and the like in it is fine? Wouldn't the seeds in them cause the same problems? Are there some seeds that are worse then others?
So far I'm avoiding tossing any seed clusters I find into the pile but probably miss some. I figure any that survive will just get added back in as greens and maybe help some. Just wondering what the best option would be.