Greens
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New to Gardening, Would like to start my Compost Bin

I fenced off a little corner of my garden to start composting. After I dug up my plot I threw some of the extra dirt from that in the bin. I then went and bought 2 bags of compost and manure, not a big part of the of the ratio when compared to the dirt I threw in. Another thing that may be important to mention is that most of the dirt here is clay. I now have everyone throwing in the veggie scraps and chicken bones. Ive also thrown in some brown. I'm turning it every couple of days trying to get it cooking a bit. About how long of a process is this before I can use any of this compost or how long does it take for the microbes to colonize and breakdown the green and brown?

tomc
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Your pile has already started to decay. As spring cleaning happens in your neighborhood, start stealing bags of leaves. Add a few thousand.

No, I really mean a few thousand bags of leaves.

Decay will continue till fall when cold will slow things down.

Start your second pile in November.

Empty out first pile April of '14 into garden.

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rainbowgardener
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I think the dirt and compost you added just slow everything down - dilutes the other ingredients without really adding anything. I add a handful of dirt every now and then, just to be sure it is inoculated with soil microbes and even that probably isn't necessary.

In my pile (without dirt and compost), kitchen scraps, fall leaves (I collect a dozen or so big yard waste bags full of leaves in the fall and gradually feed them into the pile with the greens), pulled weeds etc. break down in 4 -6 months in warm weather. Your compost is ready to use when it just looks like crumbly dark dirt with no visible original ingredients (except perhaps a bit of eggshell here and there) and pleasant smelling.

After I turn the pile over in the fall and use the compost that is ready, I make a new pile that will just be added to and sit there all winter and start working again in spring.

Turning it every couple days seems excessive to a lazy gardener like me. :) Maybe in the beginning if you put a whole bunch of ingredients together and want to get it started. After awhile you can just let it sit.

Greens
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well alright. Not the news I was hoping for but still ok. At least I can look forward to maybe having some before fall harvest to do a little top dressing. Either way, I knew compost took time o I guess now I know. Thanks everyone

toxcrusadr
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I agree on leaving soil out, as long as the pile is on the ground the microbes will come up. Commercial bagged compost is best used right in the garden. :)

You're off to a good start, it's always trial and error with compost but it's a very forgiving medium.

Greens
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hey thx crusdr. Fortunately I did buy some extra bags of compost and manure and added it to my mix. So the compost bin got a little but not all of it. Maybe next year when the compost has finished up I wont need to spend so much dinero on poo! :lol:

toxcrusadr
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That's the great thing about making your own! And the fact that you know what goes into it.

*dim*
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don't add chicken bones, bread, or meat / cooked food to your bin

Greens
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*dim* wrote:don't add chicken bones, bread, or meat / cooked food to your bin
I don't add bread or meat/anything with butter or whatever but I figured bones would be alright. also leftover steamed veggies I throw in. as long as there hasnt been butter or oils added.

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rainbowgardener
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I put bread and cooked veggies in my compost pile. Most often those have little to zero oil with them, but if they were cooked in a little vegetable oil, I wouldn't worry about that either.

The only organic things I don't put in my compost: meat, bones (I'm vegetarian so it's not an issue), diseased plants, weed seeds (if I can spot them), things that don't break down in any reasonable time like avocado shells, ivy. Wood ash I'm careful not to put too much at one time.

Greens
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rainbowgardener wrote:I put bread and cooked veggies in my compost pile. Most often those have little to zero oil with them, but if they were cooked in a little vegetable oil, I wouldn't worry about that either.

The only organic things I don't put in my compost: meat, bones (I'm vegetarian so it's not an issue), diseased plants, weed seeds (if I can spot them), things that don't break down in any reasonable time like avocado shells, ivy. Wood ash I'm careful not to put too much at one time.
Why should I not put bones in my bin? Sorry it just hasnt been cleared up for me yet. :?

treehopper
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Greens wrote: Why should I not put bones in my bin? Sorry it just hasnt been cleared up for me yet. :?
It will draw critters, scattering your pile about...some do, most don't. Doesn't hurt

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rainbowgardener
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Meat, bones, animal products are very attractive to vermin, flies etc. Also bones fall in my category of stuff that doesn't break down in any reasonable amount of time -- archaelogists have found bones thousands of years old. Probably don't last quite that long in a compost pile, but still.

Greens
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I see. I suppose that makes sense.

toxcrusadr
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The general prohibition on fats and oils is more about large volumes than incidental fat incorporated into foods.

Yes:
Baked goods
Fried foods
Small amounts of sauces and dressings

No:
Entire can of stale shortening
Emptying the deep fryer

Make sense? Oils and fats will break down, but more slowly, and they are not water soluble. Large amounts of them can exclude air from the pile and cause it to get anaerobic (smelly). Also they can attract critters.

As for bones, I put chicken and turkey bones in because they are hollow and will decompose faster than others, and I have a plastic bin with a locking lid to keep out varmints. I do sometimes find the joint on the end of the bone still intact later. I toss them back in or let them be buried in the garden with the compost.

Greens
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I think I get the idea now. Unfortunately I didnt do much reading up about compost till after I had already established area for my bin and started throwing all the soil ive been digging up in it.... :oops: All is well though. I'm not expecting to see much progress till next season but will continue feeding the bin turning it every now and again. I may add a couple cu ft of compost and manure to it throughout the season.

Are vermin like mice and such a threat in the garden? My next step in setup is pest proofing everything. I was thinking primarily of birds and bugs but we do get a lot of opossums and mice.

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rainbowgardener
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" may add a couple cu ft of compost and manure to it "

I still don't understand. Why add compost (= the finished product of a compost pile) to the compost pile? It is already broken down. A handful of soil or compost may help add some appropriate microbes to the pile. Otherwise, the compost should be used in your garden, it doesn't help your compost pile and may slow things down.

I guess the answer to the mice and other pests problem depends on your situation. We have people who write in here saying they have 3 sided bins and no problem. I am in the city and I have to have 4 sided bins with a lid. Otherwise all the critters, mice, rats, cats, dogs, opossums, and especially raccoons, get into it and not only eat all the kitchen scraps out of it, but spread it all over the yard in the process. And that is without adding any animal products in the pile.

I don't think you are wrong to think you can have some finished compost to use in the fall. It's just that your whole pile won't be finished. I just throw things on top of my pile all the time as they come along. Every few months in the growing season, I turn my pile over. That is, all the stuff on the top of the pile becomes the bottom of a new pile, down to the level where the earthworms are. Everything at the bottom is finished or nearly finished compost, which finishes up quickly once exposed to air and stirred.

Greens
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Ok, I was thinking the compost would "speed up" the process. Nvm then. I will just keep adding the kitchen scraps and turn every now and again. Thanks for clearing that up. Now come on mother nature and work your magic!

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rainbowgardener
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OK, but notice you talked about adding compost and manure to your pile and I said why would you add compost. I didn't include manure in that. They are completely different.

Compost is the already decomposed result of the composting process. It is humus, organic materials. It is very valuable for the soil, because it helps hold moisture and provides lots of minerals, trace nutrients, the fungal and microbial life that helps plants use those nutrients, and often beneficial macro-life like earthworms. It also contains the major nutrients NPK, but in low concentrations compared to fertilizers. It still adds fertility to the soil, because compost can be used in large quantities. But for adding to your compost pile, it adds little and will slow down, not speed up, the process.

Well-aged composted manure would be in a pretty similar category, broken down already and much more useful in the garden than the compost pile.

FRESH manure is very different. It has not been broken down yet, has a high concentration of nitrogen and other nutrients and definitely will heat up/ speed up your compost pile. I don't use manure in my pile, because I'm a city girl with not much access to it and I like to just use what my yard and neighborhood produce. But my compost pile also doesn't heat up very much except when I can add watermeal/ duckweed from the pond (also a high N source). It still composts, so I don't care. But if you are aiming for quick, hot composting, fresh manure is a valuable addition.

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Compost piles do attract a lot of vermin so it is really not good to add too much animal products. Also if you use a lot of meat products it can really smell and that will attract the cats, dogs and other varmints.

Good compost piles are hosts to many decomposers and things that eat the decomposers. The bacteria and fungi breakdown the browns and greens. Other creatures come in and feed on them. Millipedes, centipedes, ants, worms, roaches, beetles, snails, mice, mongoose, raccoon, etc just love to live and rummage through compost piles. :mrgreen:

They all are part of the soil food web, but are not always welcome in the house. :x

https://soils.usda.gov/sqi/concepts/soil ... d_web.html
https://www.nyc.gov/html/nycwasteless/ht ... sers.shtml

Greens
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Interesting rainbow. There is actually a horse stable right down the street from where I live. Maybe I could buy some from them? Guess it wont hurt to ask. I just gotta remember to ask for it FRESH. haha ive never had to go buy fresh poo before. Should be fun :D

treehopper
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BUY IT???? no, no, no, NO, they should be glad for you to take it, unless they load it for you, then maybe a few bucks for their effort.

Greens
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treehopper wrote:BUY IT???? no, no, no, NO, they should be glad for you to take it, unless they load it for you, then maybe a few bucks for their effort.
even better. Ill take a couple 5 gal buckets with me when I go just in case they don't have containers for me.

treehopper
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Now you're talkin'...how many trips a day can you make?

Greens
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treehopper wrote:Now you're talkin'...how many trips a day can you make?
well since I'm only about 5 mins away I could make 2-3 times a day if needed. Honestly I'm not sure of the amount of manure id need but hopefully not a lot. My bin is 5'x3'x3'. There is some ground in there already from the holes I dug in my garden and kitchen scraps, vacuum bags and so forth. I don't think ill need to make more than 2 trips with 5-10 5 gal containers

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rainbowgardener
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That was partly a joke. How much manure you can use is limited by the space you have AND the amount of "browns" (hard, dry, carbon rich stuff like fall leaves, straw, shredded paper) you have on hand to mix with it. Stable manure can be nice stuff for the compost, because it often comes mixed with straw bedding, so already has some brown with it. But even so you would want more by volume of browns, then you add of manure, probably at least twice as much, depending on how much straw is in what you get.

Otherwise, if you don't have enough browns and you have extra space you could make a separate pile just of manure and end up with that well-aged composted manure I was talking about, which is also good stuff for your garden. But your garden would smell like a stable for awhile until it gets more aged. When you put it in your compost pile, mixed with yard wastes and a whole bunch of browns, it won't smell. Sitting there un-mixed in its own pile, it will.

treehopper
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If the stable has a stockpile of aged manure, grab that first...now we're back to how many trips?

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ElizabethB
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My 2 cents

There are so many varying opinions on what and what not to put in compost. Just today I attended a talk by my county horticulturalist on composting.

Points he made -
1 no animal by products (except rinsed, crushed egg shells), no cooked produce (except steamed with no oil or butter added), no grease or oil.

Reason 1) smell 2) attracts unwanted animals 3) maggots if your pile does not get hot enough 4) detremental to the growth of micro organizms needed to break down the vegetative material

2 Be careful with grass clippings - 1) if the lawn was treated with a weed and feed the weed part may still be on the clipings 2) If weeds have gone to seed the seeds will be in your pile and again if it does not get hot enough those weeds will end up in your garden

3 Think about where your manure is coming from. We have a local race track and they give away manure. The question has been raised about what the horses may have been treated with as in hormones or steroids - that will be in you garden.

4 Never use manure from carnivores

5 Rabbit manure can be used fresh because it is cool manure.

Like I said this is just my 2 cents but I do know, like and trust my agent. He knows his stuff.

rot
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..
If you shift your thinking from trying to make as much compost as you can as fast as you can to how much stuff I can bio-remediate, then the ideas what you should and shouldn't compost change a bit.

I believe in the long run, if you start thinking in terms of what can I compost around here, you'll eventually end up making as much compost as you can as fast as you can.

to sense
..

toxcrusadr
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I would only disagree with the 'no cooked foods' idea. Small amounts of butter or oil are not going to cause problems. We put bread, pasta, etc. in there. And no we don't rinse our eggshells. <eyeroll> Just crush them with your hand.

Just don't empty the Fry Daddy in there. :>

Greens
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rainbowgardener wrote:That was partly a joke. How much manure you can use is limited by the space you have AND the amount of "browns" (hard, dry, carbon rich stuff like fall leaves, straw, shredded paper) you have on hand to mix with it. Stable manure can be nice stuff for the compost, because it often comes mixed with straw bedding, so already has some brown with it. But even so you would want more by volume of browns, then you add of manure, probably at least twice as much, depending on how much straw is in what you get.

Otherwise, if you don't have enough browns and you have extra space you could make a separate pile just of manure and end up with that well-aged composted manure I was talking about, which is also good stuff for your garden. But your garden would smell like a stable for awhile until it gets more aged. When you put it in your compost pile, mixed with yard wastes and a whole bunch of browns, it won't smell. Sitting there un-mixed in its own pile, it will.
Thank You! That was for the info pertaining to mixing browns with green. I didnt know that having a higher mix of brown to green would keep it from smelling. I personally don't mind the smell (for some reason its comforting...no way its just me 8) .) but the wife cant stand it. I actually havent gone to get any fresh horse manure yet due to this fact. Thanks bud!

Greens
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treehopper wrote:If the stable has a stockpile of aged manure, grab that first...now we're back to how many trips?
I can make as many trips as needed. Only a few mins down the road.



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