Worms? How many?

[Gardener123]

I should have about 175 SF of raised beds this year and I would like to add worms. Is there a formula for how many I need?

[rainbowgardener]

No, and if you make your beds with lots of organic materials in them, fall leaves, etc, you shouldn't have to add worms, the worms will come.

Do you have a compost pile? When I turn my compost pile, it is full of worms, which I add to the garden, along with the compost.

[hendi_alex]

Under good conditions, worms multiply and migrate explosively. I don't think that you will need to seed your worm population overly much, just add a couple pounds or five pounds, keep adequate organic matter and moisture present and the worm population will take off.

I have only bought earth worms once or twice, maybe two pounds each time. The worms were placed in a slow compost pile and also placed in a worm box. During the mild months those organically rich spots grow thousands of worms for export into beds. Now the worms are pretty thick in any enriched area of my very sandy yard. The worms are so abundant that they are pretty widespread even in areas that have not been enriched, as long as native leaves are allowed to fall and accumulate. When we first moved here some 30 years ago, there were almost no earthworms in the very sandy, dry soil.

We never use our compost entirely up, saving the last few bushels as starter for the next year's batch. That starter injects earthworms and other critters and microbes into the next year's material that gets added and mixed. We figured that strategy out after having to buy the second batch of worms. Of course worms were no problem after starting our worm box which probably makes five to ten pounds of worms per year.

[tomc]

The leaves you round up spring or fall have uncounted thousands of egg cases on them. They and the addition of other compostables (plus regular watering) will explode your worm population. There is no need to seed worms.

[hendi_alex]

"There is no need to seed worms."

I'm not so sure about that comment, as is probably a site specific consideration. As posted earlier, my yard is almost pure, dry sand, which in the summer time also gets very hot. The slight grey tint is confined to the upper four to six inches. There is absolutely nothing much alive in the yellow sand that is immediately below. We had an almost total absence of native earth worms. Importing worms into the compost pile and later starting the worm box dramatically accelerating the colonization of the beds and the yard.

Now my daughter's clay yard is abundantly populated with earth worms, so I would give her your advice in that situation. She just needs to add organic matter and the existing worms will multiply quickly until the new carrying capacity is reached.

[Gardener123]

RG,

no compost pile yet, and not sure I will have one... I once tried it and it was a disaster, but I think maybe it didn't get enough sun. There is nothing more I would like that to start making compost.

[Gardener123]

The leaves you round up spring or fall have uncounted thousands of egg cases on them. They and the addition of other compostables (plus regular watering) will explode your worm population. There is no need to seed worms.

We don't round up leaves. Our township has a policy / saying that they send us every fall..... " Leaves, it's OK to let them lay." And we always have. But I guess we should start saving them for a compost bin.

[rainbowgardener]

Compost pile does not need to be in sun, mine isn't. Disaster most often means too wet, too much "greens" and not enough "browns," maybe not enough aeration. See the greens/ browns Sticky at the top of this sectionl.
Start it again and we will help make sure it works for you. There's just a few basics to know and then it isn't hard.

Definitely collect those fall leaves! I drive around my neighborhood and pick up the yard waste bags of them that people put at the curb, to use for my compost pile.

Homemade compost is the best thing you can do for your garden, as well as keeping all that stuff out of the waste stream.

[Gardener123]

I thought that heat helped everything break down?

I am going to go research composting, and watch some youtube videos.... I really would like to have compost.

[Gardener123]

Good news in one respect.... I was just talking to my buddy, and he has a buddy who owns a juice bar...... where they throw away all kinds of stuff that would be great for a compost bin. He said I could probably takes as much as I like for free.

[rainbowgardener]

Here's a site with a lot of good composting info:

https://www.composting101.com/

The compost pile, if working well, generates its own heat. I don't know where you are. If you are in a very cold, wet climate, being in the sun could help dry things out better. In hot, dry climates, being in the sun would dry it out too much and you would have to be watering your pile all the time (it needs to stay just a little bit damp to keep working).

Remember the juice bar left overs will be all "greens," (soft, moist, nitrogen rich). If you take a lot of them you will need a lot of "browns" (hard, dry, carbon rich) to balance them out, or you will be back to the disaster. Be sure you know what your source of browns will be and have some on hand, before you saddle yourself with a whole bunch of stuff you can't use.

And if the juice bar stuff is mostly citrus, it can be pretty acidic. If it gets well composted that balances itself out, but if you have too much acid stuff fresh in the pile at once, it can kill off some of the microbes that do the work. So sure, take some, but don't overdo it.

[tomc]

"Heat" in your compost bin (or pile) is the aerobic action of your local micro-herd.

If your pile is too wet or compacted the "air" of aerobic won't be able to get in and keep the little bacteria and fauna happy.

Sunlight is not nesisary for this decay to take place.

I will admit I garden in new england and mid-west. I have however coresponded with people in just about every state of the union. If they composted each and every one of them describe an explosive increase in worms as digestable material and water became available.

So I'm gonna stand on there is no need to bait worms.

[hendi_alex]

I'm sure that your comment is true. Even my barren yard had a few underfed worms. But I am also sure that adding the worms to the compost pile and establishing a worm bed accelerated the process dramatically. Importing various worms also increased the variety of earthworms present and all forms have multiplied and spread exponentially.

In my daughter's yard which has a pretty good density of native worms, I doubt importing worms would have had any positive impact at all.

[valerieh]

Here in North Florida, I have sugar sand. There isn't anything in this soil that I didn't add myself. I've been composting on this piece of property for 6 years now and the only thing in this compost pile when I turn it are cockroaches and rolly pollies!! So I would def disagree about not having to seed the garden with worms. My other property I had here for 10 years was the same way. I seeded it with worms and ended up with gorgeous dirt. Start out with 1 or 2 lbs of worms. They can be pricey.

[estorms]

Are these the same worms you buy for fishing?

[applestar]

Red wigglers, not night crawlers. Some bait shops specify.

[Ozark Lady]

I was interested in starting a worm bin, and I did some research on worms and discovered that worms are not native to USA.
Odd since they seem to be everywhere.
I don't have a worm bin yet, I did try with fishing worms and they never took, not sure why, my error or not good worms.

In my research I came across that the worms used in worm beds for composting are not the same worms that are in the garden, and that one will not work for the other. The garden worms won't survive in a worm bin, and the worm bin types won't work in the garden.

I don't know, I can't seem to raise them in bins, but the garden worms are doing okay, anywhere the ground is wet for a few hours, I can pick up worms by the handful, and this is lousy soil and very rocky, but worms are everywhere, except in my worm bin.

I bought red wrigglers fishing worms and they didn't survive for me.

I don't know, I just know that I read that about there being different kinds of worms.

[*dim*]

the people here in the UK prefer tiger worms in their wormeries and compost bins ... we can get them off ebay or from fishing tackle shops:

https://www.wormery.co.uk/why-tiger-worms.htm

not sure if it's freely available in the USA

[rainbowgardener]

"In my research I came across that the worms used in worm beds for composting are not the same worms that are in the garden, and that one will not work for the other. The garden worms won't survive in a worm bin, and the worm bin types won't work in the garden. "

I can only say what works for me. My worms are all the same. My compost pile is on the ground and it gets full of worms that come in to it on their own, presumably my garden worms. Lots of them get moved back into the garden with the compost. I also started my worm bin, just by digging a bunch of worms out of the compost pile and throwing them in the bin. I figure they are eating leaves and kitchen scraps, etc in the compost pile, why wouldn't they eat leaves and kitchen scraps in the worm bin? It all seems to work.

[toxcrusadr]

As someone who lives in a worm-rich area, it's hard to imagine having to import them. However, you should do what works best for you in your area. Only suggestion I have is that when you bring in worms, you will have to be sure to have the conditions they can thrive in, or they will not take hold. Moisture and organic matter for them to eat.

There is not really a formula for how many to add, that I know of. I would think a couple hundred in the average 250 sf garden would be enough to reproduce and sustain a population if the conditions are right.

[Ozark Lady]

I still can't quote what is said earlier. Would someone pm me and teach me how to do this? I have tried and tried.

But, I did wonder if the comment, " compost worms are not the same as garden worms" was a hype to sell certain worms for compost bins.

Thanks, Rainbow, I think instead of giving up, I will try it with ordinary garden red worms. It would be nice to have worm castings.

My house is very dry in winter, so perhaps, I just never got the moisture content right. Or the worms had been in refrigeration too long, it was winter and maybe they don't sell so well in winter and were in lousy shape?

[rainbowgardener]

I do add some water to my worm bin every few days. Not sure about all the rest...