is compost really fertilizer?

[midori888]

NOTES:Making compost isn't an option; I don't have the time or space to do so. Would also prefer to avoid something high in nitrogen as this attracts aphids.

Some say amendment, others say fertilizer, and others say BOTH. Which is it?

If compost is mixed into when soil mix is made, do you have to
fertilize at the surface, or this not necessary?


I screwed up soil mix using wrong type of fertilizer for container gardening; didn't have time or money to use correct fertilizer. Tried to compensate by fertilizing at surface of soil; ended up over fertilizing which attracted aphids and decimated harvest.

Nutrients etc. are time released w/compost. Does it make it more less effective at feeding plants?

[rainbowgardener]

I say both. It is a soil amendment in that it helps the texture and tilth of the soil, improves both sand and clay soils to be more loamy, helps with holding moisture etc. And it is a fertilizer, in the sense that it does add nutrients, not only the NPK of synthetic fertilizers, but many other minerals, micronutrients, etc AND the microbial/fungal life to break all those things down into forms plants can use.

The people who say it is not a fertilizer are used to synthetic fertilizers with 10-10-10 or even 20-20-20 type formulations. Compared to that, compost is somewhere between 1-1-1 and 2-2-2. But that is ok, because the synthetic fertilizers can only be used in small amounts or you burn your plants. Compost can be used by the bucketful. It is time released and it cannot harm your plants. I believe it is way more effective at feeding plants because as noted the nutrients are provided in the forms the plants can use.

I use compost and mulch and no other fertilizers.

Personally, I think anyone could make compost if motivated. Compost bins like this

https://www.gardeners.com/Eco-Stack-Composter/20706,38-536,default,cp.html

have a footprint of 2' square. Who doesn't have that amount of space in their garden. If you don't, worm bins can even be done indoors. I had a worm bin in my basement all one winter. And the time commitment is pretty minimal. I collect kitchen scraps in a sealed bucket. Once a week I dump them in to the compost bin. Anytime I weed, I dump the weeds in the compost. Other than that, maybe every couple months, I turn the pile over.

But if you are really not motivated to do composting (what do you do with all your kitchen and garden wastes then? send it to landfill?), you can buy compost in bags or buy the truckload. Way more cost-effect to have a truck load dropped off.

[ruggr10]

Definition of Fertilize:
1. to provide (an animal, plant, or egg cell) with sperm or pollen to bring about fertilization
2. to supply (soil or water) with mineral and organic nutrients to aid the growth of plants
3. to make fertile or productive

I'd say compost doesn't do #1 but it definitely does #2 and #3.

So, using that definition, compost is a fertilizer!

[Binkalette]

I'm a believer in compost! We started our first garden summer of 2009. I fertilized it at the time with miracle grow... it performed terribly.

Summer of 2010 I planted the garden again and started using fish emulsion, blood meal/bone meal and.. tomatone I think it's called. My garden did a lot better that year, I actually had some veggies to harvest! I also started a compost pile mid-spring and started filling it.

Spring of 2011 I had about two feet of finished compost in my bin which I dug out and worked into the garden. Last year my garden was AMAZING. Due to the previous two years experience, I completely underestimated my tomatoes and they ended up out growing their stakes before July.. they basically took over the entire garden. I had so many tomatoes I still have canned tomato sauce. I had nice big onions and my lettuce did really well too until the slugs came to call.


And I should mention, compost piles really don't take as much work as some people make you believe. I have a small plastic tub with a lid in the garage next to the door that I dump everything from the kitchen that is compostable into and take it out there when it gets full. All of the kitchen fruit and veggie scraps go in, egg shells and cardboard cartons, old bread/cereal, paper bags, the cardboard from paper towel and TP rolls, my hubby's used coffee filters.... the list goes on. We also dump our grass clippings into the pile, my husband adds lots of sawdust from his wood shop, and in the fall the measly amount of leaves we get go in as well. I don't really do much mixing.. we just pile on top.. the only time it really gets mixed is in the spring when we take the finished compost out.. The only attention aside from things being added to it that the pile gets is a deep watering once and a while to keep it moist.

So.. Pile stuff in + add water = compost!

[midori888]

Thanks for clarification regarding what compost is, as well as taking time to post on thread. Sorry if the next part comes off as rude or ungrateful; that is not my intention, I'm merely explaining my situation for what it is.


NOTE: the reasons for why I can't make my own compost, aren't excuses. It's the reality of what I have to contend with. I basically have to make due with the resources available.

Well by I don't have time, I mean I'll be so busy gathering materials for my soil mix, getting materials to build raised beds, filling them with soil, etc. that I won't have time.

Add to that, that the places I'll be growing my veggies, aren't mine; I don't own the land. I can still grow the stuff there, but I can't make any permanent changes as I see fit.

Add to that even if I started my compost pile now, it won't be ready until next season.

Unfortunately that doesn't help now. I'll have to use some kind compost as a substitute; the kind available comes in 40 lb. bags, it's a combination of humus and compost. Does this count as compost?

It's also been suggested to add 'organic matter'. Most of the time organic matter is used to make your compost. Can it be added raw though, or will it have detrimental affects on the soil mix it's being incorporated into?

[Binkalette]

mmm.. some organic matter can leech nitrogen from the soil as it breaks down, (before putting it back!). I believe a lot of people here put down a layer of leaves over their dirt (or another "brown" like straw or finely ground sawdust) and then cover that with a "green" like grass clippings. It works well as a mulch to keep weeds down and dirt off your plants, and breaks down to add nutrients to the soil.

[rot]

..
In my collegiate dictionary a fertilizer is something "(as manure or a chemical mixture)" used to make the soil fertile.

Most manures as is will just burn your plants. You want to age it or compost it first

Chemical mixtures sold as fertilizer are typically engineered to feed the plants directly and due to the concentrations of some substances can kill the stuff living in your soil that breaks down organic material into something the plants can feed on. Once the plants consume the fertilizer you now have starving plants in dead soil. You'll be stuck adding fertilizer on and on.

What is really needed is to make sure the soil is fed which will in turn feed the plants. Feeding the soil mostly means organic matter. Shoving fresh leaves into the ground will feed the soil but it will take a long time to digest that meal. Feeding the soil with compost will feed it with organic material the soil can readily digest and therefore readily feed the plants.

So midori888 can buy some compost and feed the soil for planting and add more on top as things progress.

If you mulch with coffee grounds that will feed your soil some too. If you mulch with a lot of coffee grounds you'll find the worms will do a lot of work of eating that stuff and moving it down below but throw straw or grass clippings on top of that to negate the crusting effect you get with a good layer of coffee grounds.

two cents
..

[toxcrusadr]

Some good comments here.

When people say 'add organic matter to the soil' they generally mean compost. Any kind of compost will most likely be beneficial - whether in a bag or homemade. Yes your compost/humus mix will work. It is also marketed as composted manure or just 'compost'. You kinda get what you pay for with this stuff, the cheaper ones will have less organic matter (more mineral content, I.e. soil) and less fertilizer value. Compost does have fertilizer value, although lower and slower releasing than a bag of fertilizer.

You don't have time to make compost now, OK, but what are you planning to do with all your garden waste later? Dead plants, spoiled tomatoes, etc. You might consider either making a pile in a corner, OR using any yard and garden waste as mulch in between your plants. It will suppress weeds, hold in moisture and break down into the soil. You can even bury kitchen waste in a shallow trench between rows. In other words, you can compost without a pile or a bin. In the fall, you can make a pile for winter on one of the beds. By spring you can spread this out and dig it in or use it for mulch if it's not completely decomposed. There are ways!

[cynthia_h]

..
Chemical mixtures sold as fertilizer are typically engineered to feed the plants directly and due to the concentrations of some substances can kill the stuff living in your soil that breaks down organic material into something the plants can feed on. Once the plants consume the fertilizer you now have starving plants in dead soil. You'll be stuck adding fertilizer on and on.
..

This is one of the better definitions of "chemical dependency" I've ever read. Do we really want to inflict it on our plants, edible or not?

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[toxcrusadr]

It is a good description, although I wonder about fertlizer killing soil life. I suggest the process has more to do with the gardener not adding organic matter to FEED the soil food web, so it starves, rather than actually killing it with a few nutrient salts.

I suppose a granule of fertilizer might screw up the microenvironment immediately around it, but if the concentration was actually high enough to kill a significant fraction of soil microbes, it would be toxic to the plants too.

[estorms]

I like to build a 8X4 ft. raised bed in or near the garden. All summer I put weeds, leaves, grass, and kitchen scraps in it. Every now or then I add a couple shovels full of dirt. By the next spring I have a very nice raised bed with very nice soil. Anything planted there almost jumps out of the ground.

[toxcrusadr]

That's kind of like a lasagna bed. I did that awhile back with some really bad clay I had, layered with compostables, and stuff grew like mad in that bed while it was breaking down. I have to think the composting process itself is great for plants while it is occurring. Better than adding finished compost to soil. It may just have been the improved aeration of the roots, but it was impressive. I plan to try it again if I can find the time to do some digging.

[rot]

It is a good description, although I wonder about fertlizer killing soil life. I suggest the process has more to do with the gardener not adding organic matter to FEED the soil food web, so it starves, rather than actually killing it with a few nutrient salts.

I suppose a granule of fertilizer might screw up the microenvironment immediately around it, but if the concentration was actually high enough to kill a significant fraction of soil microbes, it would be toxic to the plants too.

..
I still have to expect fertilizers set up a vicious cycle like drinking coffee all day because you can't sleep at night.

I'm thinking I want to feed the soil first and that feeds the plants.

to sense
..

[toxcrusadr]

I completely agree with that!