Chicken Manure and Carrob Browns in a tumbler?

sventur · Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:16 pm

Hello there. If have just had a composting failure. Basically too wet and not shredded materials. To cut a long story short, can browns collected from under carrob trees and laying chicken manure suffice as greens to make compost? I have an abundance of both and my goal is to create a hot pile. Fresh laying chicken manure is know to be extremely hot.
Arthur

treehopper · Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:39 pm

how are you composting? pile or container?

sventur · Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:43 am

Thanks for the comeback. I'm using a tumbler made out of a 55 gallon tank. Unfortunately I don't have the space for something bigger and id like to have the thing handy so I can monitor the situation.

treehopper · Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:12 am

I've never composted in a tumbler or container, but if it's a homebuild-maybe not enough drainage?

applestar · Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:22 am

Chicken manure could certainly be the GREEN in the compost ingredients. I don't know enough about what you mean by "browns collected from under carrot trees" but if you look at the top of this Compost Forum, there is a sticky of green and brown ingredients. Remember that by ratio, you need far more browns than greens.

In addition, a tumbler is used by filling with appropriate material all at once, then not adding anything more except to water as necessary and tumbling to mix/cooking until done. Sufficient air circulation -- and yes drainage too -- is critical.

Smaller pieces will break down faster. Typical hype about tumblers creating compost faster is usually achieved by a lot of prep work to chop down the ingredients into smaller pieces first.

sventur · Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:37 am

Carrob trees. Its a typical mediterranean tree which really grows old, some over 500 years old. They are also very well know for their medicinal advantages from syrup which is extracted from their bean pod like fruits. The ground under these trees are know for their extremly fertile properties and many have told me that collecting the debris which falls off these trees will defenitely be very fertile.

With regards to the tumbler, my intention is of putting the whole lot together prior to which I put everything trough a shredder. Drainage shouldnt be a problem as the tumbler has around 25 holes all around it. Air circulation to that point shouldnt be a problem either. When I need extra air circulation I can open up the side caps of the tank and also the flap in the centre of it. Tank is in full sun and with summer coming temperatures outside could reach +40C. I might also need to cover it up for most of the day during summer as the sun can be really aggresive.

Thanks for the replies, keep them coming.

applestar · Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:44 am

Hmm...I don't know much about it, if the carrob debris are considered so fertile, they may be more "green" -- I.e. nitrogen -- than "brown" -- I.e. carbon.

But it sounds like a wonderful ingredient.

sventur · Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:25 am

I just managed to pick up 2 sack fulls of the stuff. I think its carbons rather than nitrogen because underneath them there was some really beautiful natural compost which mother nature took care off. I also got a bucket of that to inoculate the tumbler when I start it.

Does anyone know of an effective way to separate stones from collected dry leaves? Need to remove them as I will be putting everything trough the shredder and don't want to ruin the blades!

treehopper · Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:17 pm

give them a bath in a tub-a quick swish should drop the stones to the bottom and leave you with wet leaves-lay them out to dry, and voila! sharp shredder blades.

sventur · Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:11 pm

How stupid could I be!!!! Simple physics...low densities float in water whilst others will sink!

sventur · Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:58 am

Just started a second pile to replace the previous one which was a complete disaster. This time its carrob debris and fresh laying chicken manure. Carrob debris was previously shredded. Method used, a 55gal plastic tank in tumbler style sitting in full sun. I will be posting periodically with the results achieved. I am also producing an excel sheet with the temperature readings and status for further experimentation and also if successful to be posted here for anybody wanting to do the same.

toxcrusadr · Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:11 am

So, what's going to happen to the first batch? Can you rehab it? There's really no way to permanently ruin the degradation process. Even if you dump it in a corner it will make compost eventually.

sventur · Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:17 am

I have already thrown that out into an unused plot. It was too smelly and I live in a built up area. don't want to have any problems with the neighbours. Although I must say, if one of my neighbours came out whilst I was putting the chicken manure into the bin, I would surely have had problems. That stuff is so smelly (pungent)!!!!!

sventur · Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:43 am

So the first readings of the new pile are here. Started yesterday at 16:00 with ambient temperature at 66F. When all the material was in the tumbler the temperature of the material was already at 75F. 2 hours later at 18:00 the temperature had risen to 85F. Today at 07:30 temperature was at 112F and now at 15:30 temperature was 118F. It looks like it has slowed down for some reason. I suspect the moisture level is too low. Will be watering it tomorrow morning so that it will have a full day of sunshine to reheat.

Question: are fruit flies an indication of something? Got loads of them roaming around the tumbler!

sventur · Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:03 am

After watering, the temp dropped down to 78F. The day after the temperature at 16:00 rose to 135F but for some reason this morning the core temperature was at 86F. I cant understand why such a temperature drop! Any ideas? Could it be the core is loosing a lot of heat at night time since I'm not covering the tumbler? NB The tumbler is on the third floor roof (we have flat roofs in Malta) and it gets quite a bit of wind. Also at night time at the moment we are getting a lot of dew and early in the morning the tumbler is wet from the outside and cold!

toxcrusadr · Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:52 am

You may not have enough mass there for it to retain heat as long as a bigger pile would, and if it's in a tumbler where air circulates all around (no ground to insulate the bottom), and it's on a windy roof...well it's not surprising that it cools off quickly. It doesn't mean you won't get compost though. Heat is not essential to making compost.

sventur · Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:31 pm

Ihave neglected slightly the tumbler for the past four days. At 2pm the temp reading was 86F. I watered and turned the pile. A lot of fruit flies where noticed. Also when I poked the pile with the termometer a lot of mites came running out. Had to go have a shower as they where all over me! At 6pm the core temperature was 96F.

Any suggetions on the fruit flies and mites?

toxcrusadr · Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:31 pm

How is the odor? If it's smelly you might have too much N and need more browns. That can attract more insects. Or, it may just be too wet. I haven't used a tumbler but I've heard they tend to have more fruit flies. I think this is because the high N material (greens) can be buried in a static pile so flies don't have access, but in a tumbler it's mixed frequently and they can lay their eggs on tasty bits.