Composting Not Allowed! Bokashi or Naturemill or ?

[haname]

Hi Friends

Technically, I'm not supposed to be composting at all in my yard because the Homeowners Association specifically says no composting. But I've been doing it any way. It is a small space so I can't get the requisite 3X3 size for proper hot composting. So what I have is a 50 gallon plastic storage tub which has holes drilled in the bottom for drainage, into which I put yard waste. I have tried to put kitchen veggie waste in there a couple of times, but even when buried in the very middle when it is active and sort of hot, it will still smell and attract vermin. Stink and vermin is the reason why the HOA says NO COMPOSTING.

So I need something that will allow me to compost my kitchen scraps and it seems an indoor method would be best. I've been looking at the naturemill for several years but the cost has kept me back. Now they apparently have made improvements so it is looking pretty attractive.

But I'm also looking at Bokashi. That seems pretty interesting and the price is so much better than the Naturemill, but I might have a couple of issues with it. Looking at videos on YouTube, it looks like it's quite a production dealing with the fermented bokashi. I did see someone adding their bokashi to a compost pile which is better than finding places in the yard to bury it, but am wondering if it would attract odors and vermin like normal kitchen waste would in my situation. I also have dogs which might want to dig it up.

Does anyone have suggestions? If you have the newer naturemill or if you do bokashi without burying it, I would love to hear any suggestions/experiences.

Thank you!

[cynthia_h]

I just have a minute right now, but check out our posts on vermicomposting (composting with worms). It can be done indoors, or discreetly outdoors, like on a porch disguised as a sitting bench.

[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=197112]Here's[/url] a recent thread.

And here is the current website of the woman who, over twenty-five years ago, started the modern vermicomposting movement: [url=https://www.wormwoman.com/acatalog/vermicomposting.html]Mary Appelhof, Worms Eat My Garbage (website)[/url]

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[toxcrusadr]

If you have odor issues even with that small quantity, it sounds like maybe your bin is too heavy on nitrogen-rich greens. If by 'yard waste' you mean grass clippings or other green stuff, you really need some dry leaves, shredded paper or sawdust. That should fix your odor problem.

If I lived in a place like that I would take on the HOA and try to get the rules changed, at least to allow composting in a nice contained bin with limited volume. It's just un-American to force people to waste resources by forbidding recycling.

[haname]

Hi Cynthia,

I have Worms Eat My Garbage and would really love to do a worm bin, and actually did have one at one time when I lived in PA. Here in Phoenix a worm bin would have to be in the house because it gets too hot for the worms in the garage and outside in summer. I don't have a place for a worm bin indoors at the moment. :~


Hi toxcrusader,

It's only when I try to put kitchen waste in there that I have odor and vermin problems. My compost has leaves and flowers and trimmings from the plants and trees. Sometimes I put the coffee grounds in there.
Usually there is one stage fairly early in the breakdown process where I notice some odor, but it's not the putrid odor of rotting kitchen garbage, unless I try to put kitchen scraps in there.

I don't have access to enough stuff to properly compost my kitchen waste without the odor and risk of vermin which is why I'm considering the alternatives of the electric one and the bokashi. Does bokashi have odor and would it attract vermin if it is put in compost instead of buried?

It's my understanding that the Nature Mill can be kept in a location up to 120º F so thought it would work in my garage which can get that hot in summer. Not sure about temperature limitations for the bokashi, but I was thinking of doing that or the Nature Mill in the garage if it were possible.

Thank you!

[applestar]

If you plug Bokashi in the search the forum link in upper right, you'll find at least three good threads that I remember.

Bokashi would have no problem in the heat. It has a penetrating odor that reminds me of Korean kimchee or Japanese nuka pickles. My kids dob't like it when I open the Bokashi bucket, but I kind of like it, so I think the reception/perception will be individual.

I think you will have less odor problems with your kitchen scraps if you could at least get the worms o do the preliminary in a vermicompost. For this purpose, you would only need a small set up and you could just use shredded paper or block of coir as bedding. (I use soaked paper towel tubes, paper napkins, etc.). Maybe you could keep it in the corner of the bathroom or something.

Worst kitchen scrap offenders are, in my mind, citrus remains because they mold so easily and moldy citrus odor can knock you over -- nothing stops it, even double layer of freezer bags. Only solution is to bury it well.

[cynthia_h]

I use shredded newspaper as bedding for my worms. The Worm Factory came with a brick of coir, but that was used up back in 2008. I've just used shredded newspaper ever since.

Cynthia

[haname]

If I had a spot, I would definitely do the worms. I take it the Nature Mill isn't something anyone on this forum has any experience with?

Will look into the bokashi. Can you give me a hint about what threads to look for? A search of the forum for Bokashi has a lot of results. I need to be able to do it without having to dig pits for burial.

Thank you!

[webmaster]

If I lived in a place like that I would take on the HOA and try to get the rules changed,

I agree. Although you can't really fight against the HOA since they are only home owners elected to make decisions for you, you can get yourself elected to the HOA board and then make the changes from the inside.

[toxcrusadr]

From what I know about Bokashi, it's a fermentation environment - ie you keep the lid on and it's not normally open to the air. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Even so it's going to put out some CO2 or whatever as it decomposes and some odor will go with it, but it sounds like it's only really noticeable when you open the container.

I know there are some who have a Bokashi bucket inside the house, then they transfer the partially decomposed stuff to an outdoor compost bin or just bury it. Maybe if you did that with your kitchen waste it would not be as attractive to the neighborhood critters quite as much when you put it out in the bin. Just a thought. Might be cheap to try that before you buy the electric gadget.

BTW when you say vermin are you talking about roaches, mice, Gila monsters, Kimodo dragons...?

[applestar]

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21051
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=122859

[haname]

Thanks everyone for your helpful responses. <3

Tox, the HOA should definitely change policies. Solar panels used to be forbidden, too. Think of it, in Phoenix AZ, land of the sun, they forbade solar because of the way it looks. But now they have to permit it by law, so maybe composting will also be permitted some day. It would have to involve some sort of odor/pest-proof enclosed unit that would not be visible by neighbors. Something that is idiot proof since doing compost properly does involve a certain level of finesse. Someone needs to invent that, so people could just go out, put their waste in the receptacle, and completely forget about it. Maybe have the thing automatically sprinkle it with something when the lid is closed that will help it break down and discourage pests.

Vermin here include cockroaches, which will in turn attract scorpions. There are also rats and mice that would eventually find their way to it.

Applestar, Thank you for the links

I've been reading about the bokashi and it gets more and more interesting to me. Videos I saw showed people only burying it and that was a bit daunting for me for a couple of reasons.

But the idea of culturing the waste intrigues the scientific part of me.

[toxcrusadr]

Composting does take a bit of knowledge to do right, I'm with you there. The whole greens/browns thing is news to most beginners.

My theory on the pests is that they're already around the area or they wouldn't show up. But if there is a food source they will tend to multiply that much faster. An enclosed bin like the Earth Machine or similar will at least keep the compost out of site and will keep larger critters out. With a proper mesh or chicken wire base, it even keeps out mice.

[haname]

I've been eying the Earth machine as a replacement for my storage bin system. It looks like a well-designed composter. I would still need something for kitchen scraps though. My compost is much too close to the houses to trust.

[haname]

Applestar,

I read both threads and learned a lot. First read them last night and it was hard to follow. then read them again today and things were much more clear.

How has your bokashi been doing since you started? Do you put your pickled scraps in the ground, the compost pile or a worm bin? Once it's exposed to the air and begins decomposing how does it smell?

I am already familiar with probiotic cultures. I make my own kefir using milk kefir grains, and am pretty sure that a good EM-1 can be brewed using some good strong kefir whey and molasses. Bokashi really is just another probiotic culture when you get right down to it.

So I went ahead and ordered some EM ceramic powder, and picked up some rice hulls at the local brewer's supply store. It just makes more sense to me to make my own bokashi. The bagged stuff seems SO expensive for what goes in it. Once I get the bokashi made, I'll go ahead and order the bin and give it a shot. Not sure yet what I'm going to do with my fermented scraps though!

[Joyfirst]

If you use heavy straw mulching in the garden, you can just put veggie scraps directly under the mulch- they won't stink, if you put them out fresh every day- they won't get a chance - worms, microorganisms, and such will start working on them right away. As long as you veggies get enough air, there is no stink.

[haname]

Hi Joy,

Thank you for your suggestion! This would be a great strategy if the garden beds were far away from the house. Unfortunately, I did something similar last year and it attracted cockroaches. I buried the kitchen scraps (not deep enough) in between plants and covered with soil and mulch. A straw cover wouldn't deter roaches but make things pretty cozy. I couldn't enjoy my back patio at night because the roaches were brazenly cruising around, it was rather disconcerting.

Kind of a challenge to try to garden in such a small area. I'm glad that I do have a little space for growing a few things though. But the composting is quite the challenge. Today in my clandestine compost pile I saw a large roach. One here and there isn't such an issue, as long as there isn't a whole bunch of them. I'm sure if there was food waste in there I would see LOTS of them.

SO anyway... I'm going to do a DIY bokashi project. The only things I will buy are lids for the 5 gal pails, some ceramic powder (probably not necessary but I already ordered it), and some rice hulls. I'll post how it goes!

[Joyfirst]

Hmmm, I never saw a coakroach in my compost pile...although there are plenty of bugs in there.

[toxcrusadr]

I get em in mine, doesn't seem to matter what I have in there.

[haname]

My neighbor keeps his trash can just on the other side of the fence where my secret compost is. I think his trash may be attracting roaches because as the week progresses it starts smelling worse and worse. UGH too close to the neighbors! Be glad if you live where you have a little more breathing room!!

Isn't that ironic. HOA says go ahead and keep rotting garbage out, as long as no one can see it. But no compost.

[toxcrusadr]

Isn't that ironic. HOA says go ahead and keep rotting garbage out, as long as no one can see it. But no compost.

That is the best argument I've heard yet! If you could just bottle the aroma of your compost pile from 5 ft. away, and release that in the meeting, then follow up with the neighbor's garbage stink.