Compost Pile Hot - No Smell - Covered by White Substance

[chuck.johnson3]

Ok I started my very first compost pile about a month ago, at first I had no clue so I piled up leaves from the woods into a pile aprx. 10' long by 3' deep and 6' wide. I turned it everyday, finally I started adding green about a week later. At first the pile smelled bad but then when I mixed it, it really smelled great. Started heating up and the pile was shrinking, I continued to mix daily. For about three weeks the pile was great, hot smelled good and really humid when I turned it. THen the pile got cold it was now about 3'x3'x3'. I mixed it and it stayed cold. I added some green and it heated up again, but the pile has no smell, it is hot and in the middle I find a white looking substance all over everything. I'm getting really discouraged as I still see no compost. What am I doing wrong. I thought if it heated up it was good.

[gumbo2176]

you are expecting too much for a months worth of work on the pile. My compost piles consist of stable waste of horse manure with wood shavings and straw, oak leaves, grass clippings, garden and kitchen waste and the occasional scrounge of coffee grounds from a local coffee shop. I'll also put in shrimp shells and fish heads and guts but that is not all that often and is buried deep in the pile.

I wouldn't turn it as frequently either, maybe once every week to 10 days or so. I like to keep my pile a bit damp, not real wet, but damp. My piles go through the hot and cool periods depending on what's in them so that seems pretty normal.

Again, it takes time.

[Halfway]

The "compost" is likely there, just settled down into the pile. Agree that it needs to sit a week or so while it is cooking. Keep it moist, add greens, cover with some browns, rinse, repeat.

It will happen.

[chuck.johnson3]

ok so if I understand, I need to continue to add to the pile, green and brown. I need to be patient and not turn for a week or so. What I don't understand is why if someone has a barrel they can have compost in two weeks by turning everyday......Well I really lost now because I have had a barrel for over a month and a half and still no compost. I turn daily got frustrated with it being cold and took the hot middle of my pile and put it into the barrel it only got cold, no compost.

How long does it take to make compost, I have worked my tail off the last month turning this pile everyday, why shouldnt I just buy the compost for 1.29 a bag at Wal Mart. Sorry I'm just getting real discouraged.

I forgot to add that I wrap my pile in plastic because I was under the understanding that a barrel would make compost in two weeks then wraping the pile in plastic would be the same as barrel if you turn it everyday.

Next I was under the impresion that once the pile heated that you shouldnt keep adding to it. I have three piles going now as I didnt want to add to a hot pile.

Do you keep adding green and brown or let it cook or what. I'm over 200.00 for nothing right now and almost ready to set the whole lot of piles on fire so that it will heat up real nice and I can go back to having a life, my wife say's I'm consumed by nothing as I don't have anything to show for my efforts.

I have also uncovered my pile as it is raining so it will get wet. I will post some pics soon if anyone thinks that will help I will try anything.

[applestar]

I think part of the discouragement comes from working the pile every day. Also, don't believe the marketing hype that you get finished compost in -- what did you say? 2 wks? -- in tumbling type composter.

Composting is a process by living organisms. They need air to breath. So it's not really a good idea to cover it up completely, although in some areas where overabundance of rainfall can make the pile too wet, some kind of rain shelter is advisable. Yours may be reaching the critical point but dying down because they are being smothered -- only thing keeping them alive maybe precisely because you uncover them and turn them every day, aerating them getting them going again. Think of it like a camp fire.

Smaller pieces compost faster, so leaves can be shredded -- most people just run their lawn mower over them.

It's true you don't want to keep adding to the pile if you have the mass and ingredients needed in proper ratio. You would make a second pile with the fresh ingredients.

With an ideal mix of pre-shredded, ground, chopped ingredients, it's been reported that some people can achieve compost faster -- in order of months I think. I tend to think maybe 6 weeks could be possible under optimum conditions using small pieces.

But remember that you are getting the compost for free -- practically -- and many of us feel good about taking household and yard waste and turning them into something that is superior to anything you can buy... And scoff at the idea of paying money for them. Amount of time and effort can be as much or as little as you feel comfortable with, and less work means longer to finished compost. I probably harvest compost three times a year, and that's because I use unfinished compost for some purposes. I don'r want to work any harder for my compost.

[hit or miss]

Composting isn't an endeavor for impatient folks! I'm sure there are some tricks to speeding up the process and innoculating your pile with some layers of composted or fresh manure might be one of them. My advice would be to pile it all up, let it sit for at least a month or two without doing anything but making sure it has enough moisture and adding to it. Let the little soil critters and worms do their work. In the mean time, buy some compost to use until you get your pile working and producing some good stuff.

I also don't know what research you've done so I'll mention the stickies at the top of the composting forum as having some great info.

Good luck and patience!!

[chuck.johnson3]

Thanks I guess I was believing the hype of 2 weeks, sorry for the rant. I will stop turning everyday. The pile was dry it was not before now, I did uncover so the rain would get to it. I feel much better now, and I have ammo for the wife......LOL. I did post some pics to facebook if you would like to take a look at my piles.

I will not give up and will keep trying until I get the gist of this composting. I guess I have wanted to compost for years so I guess I was just a little inpatiente.

Here is link to pile pics.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.119759824771110.28783.100002112780684&l=98e7b949d8Friends' Photo Albums

[toxcrusadr]

You did good on a lot of points: green and brown, turning, and making the pile large enough to heat up. Be patient and let nature do her thing.

Some people never turn their compost piles at all and they make great compost, so don't knock yourself out.

I get about 2-3 batches a year which means my compost takes 4-6
months to mature. It does not HAVE to heat up to make compost, either.

It is a good idea to make batches and stop adding to them and make a new pile as you have done. That way the first pile finishes without having a bunch of fresh stuff constantly in the way of using it. "Continuous batch" system is the industrial term.

Finally, with the $1.29 bags of compost you get what you pay for. I'm actually doing a study right now on bagged compost products that seems to be showing that they are often full of soil and water and not much actual organic matter. The best compost in the world is what you can make at home for free.

[tomc]

Um correct me if I got this wrong. Original pile was 10' X 6' X 3'

And after turning (and it heating up) it has shrunk down to 3' X 3' X 3', and has now gone cold?

There may still be some identifiable brushy bits, bit it sounds like its done.

[toxcrusadr]

That is a good point, if it went from 180 cu ft. to 27, that's quite a shrinkage. Just wondering if it could be compost in only a month, but with all that turning and the right mix, it's possible.

Can you post a picture or describe what you're seeing in your pile?

[chuck.johnson3]

I don't know how to post the picture on here, I put a link to facebook where the pics are.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.119759824771110.28783.100002112780684&l=98e7b949d8Friends'


FYI I turned pile #2 today and it was really cooking.

[cynthia_h]

I don't know how to post the picture on here, I put a link to facebook where the pics are.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.119759824771110.28783.100002112780684&l=98e7b949d8Friends'


FYI I turned pile #2 today and it was really cooking.

Many people cannot see Facebook photos if they're private (I haven't tried yours yet).

In the general section called [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=23]"Helpful Gardener's Tips and Tricks for New Members,"[/url] you'll find [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3724]"How to Post Pictures & Photos on Forums."[/url]

*Part* of your pile may have become compost. I run mine through a "strainer" made of stapled-together furring strips and 1/2-inch hardware cloth over a wheelbarrow. The finished stuff falls into the wheelbarrow; the rest of it gets thrown back into the compost bin.

Hope this helps!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[swickstrum]

Pile #1 looks almost complete to me, depending on what you're using the compost for. If you are waiting for it to completely break down and look like new dirt, it may take another month or two (at least). I have two piles in my back yard, and I normally add to them whenever I mow, rake, or when I remember to take the used kitchen items back there.

The bottom of the pile will be the first place to have a very nutritious dirt that can be used and that will "look pretty." Realistically though, you can use the rest of the pile if you want to use it as a mulch type covering for your garden.

I normally move the top of the pile to a new area and use the bottom, finished portion. Then I use the unfinished, top portion, to help get a new pile started. Once you have completed one cycle, since you have three piles, you should have a fresh finished portion almost as you need it.

I was frustrated for the first six months because I was thinking it should go faster, but now that I've had the piles for over a year, I can see that the quality of the finished product is very much worth the wait.

[chuck.johnson3]

Thanks Swickstrum that was great info. I look forward to having a nice dark compost.


Here is a photobucket link to photo's you should be able to use the Facebook I'm not private about anything

https://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g416/chuckjohnson33/compost/

Also starbucks is saving all thier coffee grounds for me starting tomorrow, the lady said it would be about a gallon a day. I cant wait to add that to the pile.

[toxcrusadr]

That must be a small Starbucks, I figured it would be 5 gallons at least!

[GomoIsGardening]

I have a tumbler and as Applestar stated it's marketing hype in the last 8 years of my experience.

It still took at least 3 months when I used my fresh chicken manure for the hot ingredients. It never came out fine and crumbly either. My instructions even stated to use ammonium sulfate, which defeats the purpose of organic compost.

I rarely use it anymore, because it's less work to do it the way you're doing it and I get better results.

[chuck.johnson3]

Yes it is a very small Starbucks, It was the Second Starbucks and the third coffee shop that I went to. The one on FT Leonardwood would not let me have the grounds period. Doesnt seem right to me at all but they said no way. I will never get coffee from them again. The donut shop where I will never give business to again refused as well. The small starbucks was more than willing and very excited that I wanted the grounds, its out of my way but I will buy coffee from them alone. Thanks small starbucks.

[toxcrusadr]

You wonder what is going through their minds when they won't give up their trash to be recycled. Do you suppose they think you're going to try and make (free) coffee from them? Or else it's just a general liability thing. This way you can't sue them for getting some in your eye.

Well, smile and thank the Starbucks people and make sure they know you appreciate it!

[chuck.johnson3]

I didnt get the grounds, when I went to pick up the grounds the girl acted like she had never seen me and had no idea what I was talking about. FYI I have to drive about 10 mile to this Starbucks, I'm done with coffee grounds. Ill find anouther way.

[toxcrusadr]

Good grief.

Starbucks had a corporate policy to give them to anyone who asked, but they retracted it a year or so ago so it's up to individual stores. Some of them are glad to do it, but a lot of the general population (ie Starbucks employees) doesn't have a clue about waste reduction or composting.

[tomc]

When a pile is built with much leaves-yard waste, and has heated up, and cooled and you see what look like countless white threads in the mix, those are mycellium. Those threads are the busy bits of mushroom family.

This is a valuable and wonderful family member of micro herd(ers). In my book, its ready to use.

There may well remain some lignin bits that are recognisable. They are not reason enough to refrain from using it as a top dressing, or till-turning it in to your garden.

FWIW where I need visually homogenous sifted compost, I'll do that. For the whole garden--no way. I got better fish to fry...

[chuck.johnson3]

That is not what I'm seeing. What I'm seeing is kinda like a white powder, when uncovered it looks like steam rising from the pile however, it is not steam it is a powder of some kind. I tried to take a pic but it didnt work out well. I wonder if the grass had been treated in the past and this is somekind of chemical, my other thought was (I don't know but guessing) maybe this could be leaf mold. I don't know what leaf mold is or looks like. I havent seen any threads. I will try again to get a pic of this stuff.

[swickstrum]

I've seen that on mine too, I'm not sure what it is. It seems like it only shows up after the heating/cooking of the compost has almost neared completion. I normally can't get it to heat up again unless I add more green after I see the white powder.

I don't think it's a chemical because none of my green or brown has been treated, I think it's an effect of the composting/decomposition process, almost like ashes from the heat of the process or something.

I'm currently on the hunt for some good green, I haven't mowed enough this year to get enough and I have a stack of leaves that would stunt a mastedon. I'm hoping to mow this afternoon and get my new pile started. I have about 18 inches of good soil from my last batch, and it is wonderful! I'm using it to fill holes my dog has dug over the winter, and as a potting soil for my new plants that I'm planting around the house.

Spring is awesome!

[chuck.johnson3]

swickstrum you hit the nail on the head that is exactly what happens when I see the white stuff.

I'm not worried about it now thanks for the info.

[tomc]

That is not what I'm seeing. What I'm seeing is kinda like a white powder, when uncovered it looks like steam rising from the pile however, it is not steam it is a powder of some kind. I tried to take a pic but it didnt work out well. I wonder if the grass had been treated in the past and this is somekind of chemical, my other thought was (I don't know but guessing) maybe this could be leaf mold. I don't know what leaf mold is or looks like. I havent seen any threads. I will try again to get a pic of this stuff.

If there is still steam rising out of your pile its still cooking. You may be seeing ash.

A wire coat hanger can be used as a probe, inserted left in 30 seconds and withdrawn. If its hot, its still cooking.

[chuck.johnson3]

I have hit the mother load (No thanks to Starbucks) , The Horse stables on Ft. Leonard wood will let me have all the horse poop I can cart away.

[rot]

..
About coffee grounds. Sometimes people just aren't rational.

So what if I'm going to make coffee out the grounds you're now through with? Let me save you a trip to the dumpster for chrissake.

I once went coffee ground crazy and I was hitting about 5 or 6 starbucks on my way home from work each night. I would hit this one starbucks and they'd always look at me like I was some kind of bum. They'd make me wait and appear like they were doing me this great favor when they would finally turn over a tiny donut box with a few coffee grounds in it when I've got a 60 pound sack of coffee grounds in my pick up from the previous starbucks. I stopped going there. I go without coffee before I shop at that place.

Meanwhile other starbucks are happy to give me bunches. One employee was helping me carry it out. Another was giving me their fancy paper carry out bags when they were still re-bagging the old grounds in those foil sacks.

I don't have kind words for those people who hoard their waste or look at me like I'm getting away with something when they turn some over after I've asked.

to sense
..

[toxcrusadr]

Some people just don't get it rot, so you move on to greener pastures. One thing I've learned is that trash and compost are definitely not worth stressing over!

[georgf]

Nobody has touched the white substance yet. This is fungus growing - and a good sign for a healthy composting process. Compost can be dominated by fungi or bacteria depending on the material used and the process applied. For tree growing medium one would prefer fungus compost.
Your plan with the plastic sheet - and I assume it is a black sheet to collect additional heat from the sun - is perfect, as it keeps critters out and moisture in, and propels the process of composting considerably. What you need to do is watch the temperature. As soon as it drops it is a sure sign that oxygen is depleted and only then do you need to turn it over again.

[chuck.johnson3]

Thanks for the infor. Things are going great now and my third pile is huge and very very hot. My pile smell like sweet corn or fresh earth, sometime they remind me of the rain on pavment on a hot day. I figure if it smells like that it should be good.

[chuck.johnson3]

I wonder how bad it is to breath the fungus, if at all. Seems the last time I turned which I will explain: I build my piles kinda like a triangle, the fat part being the front, Then every few days I take the front and pile on top, I usually go in about a foot or two. Pile the front on the top and back and move the pile along the ground in this manner. Seems last turn the wind was in my face and the fungus was right there as well.

[hit or miss]

I'd wear a dust mask! You could wet it down to keep down the dust too.

[toxcrusadr]

Now and then someone does have a bad allergic reaction, or worse, but more rare, an actual lung infection from handling compost. It's usually people already in poor heath or with a compromised immune system. I would use common sense and if you think you're in a cloud of fungus spores, avoid breathing it. Stay upwind, mist it down with water or put on a mask.

Compost is great for the garden but your insides are entirely different territory...