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Hitched_Gibson
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Well I skipped mowing last week so I should have some good green this weekend.

I'm good on takes and shovels but that's about it. I've only got 16 plants for this first planting so I should be okay for now.

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farmerlon
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Hitched_Gibson wrote:Thanks. Now I've just got to come up with enough green to go in there.
If you've got grass (that's not treated with chemicals or pesticides), those clippings are an excellent green for the compost pile.

pickupguy07
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I'm sort of like hitched...
Just put my first bin together today, and put something in it... more bins to build yet it seems.
I also have access to horse manure. Dad lives across the street from a lady with a few hourses, and she is GLAD to have us come muck her stalls for her... and we like the fresh manure. We got two trailer loads this spring and put them on our gardens.
Trailor is about 8' x 6'.. with 4' sides. SO it holds quite a bit. One load is all I want to move in one day. LOL :-)
My garden is about 40 x 8 this season.. already plan on expanding to about 50 x 10 for next year.

This was the first time my ground had been tilled up (my first garden) and it is old red clay.. so needless to say we had to incorporate something to break up the earth, and add air to it. The manure come with straw so it seemed perfect. It was fresh manure so it added lots of nutrients to the soil. Items we planted are sprouting up and growing like gang busters. Looking forward to a good crop --- if I can keep bugs, etc out of them.

Now I need to go get a trailer load of manure and add it to my compost pile as I go along... should have some GREAT stuff by Fall to till into the soil... and maybe a decent bunch to till in before Spring planting.
We'll see.

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Hitched_Gibson
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I need to find a new poo supplier. Mine had all sorts of mess in it. I got it cleaned out and am trying to get it cooking. Not having any luck. I'm thinking about just tilling it all in my new expanded area.

pickupguy07
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I've got several 'vine' items growing.. (watermellow, cucumbers, cantaloup, squash, etc).
So I bought some straw to put under them when they start grow.
It'll cut down on weeds, increase moisture, keep the crops off the bare ground, and be great mulch for when this years crop is done to till in.

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Hitched_Gibson
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Good to know.

bogydave
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Hitched_Gibson wrote:I need to find a new poo supplier. Mine had all sorts of mess in it. I got it cleaned out and am trying to get it cooking. Not having any luck. I'm thinking about just tilling it all in my new expanded area.
.

Good luck
Last edited by bogydave on Tue May 17, 2011 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hitched_Gibson
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I started with quite a bit of the dry manure. There is no heat in a pile, so maybe I just need to keep adding green. Or I could supply urine of another sort to get it going.

pickupguy07
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I read where human urine is very good for a compost pile...
Anywone use it in theirs?

bogydave
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pickupguy07 wrote:I read where human urine is very good for a compost pile...
Anywone use it in theirs?

I read that somewhere to & tried it. Big problem!
I did it one winter. It was a real cold -30°f day.
A very big problem occurred right away.
It was so cold, the yellow icicle froze instantly & I was stuck to the compost pile. :shock:
I screamed for the wife to come out with a hammer to break the icicle. :oops:
Whew!! What a learning experience :) :lol:

rot
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..
Thanks for the lessons learned. - 30 F: don't pee outside.

I pee on the bin all the time. I stop days ahead of time when I know I'm getting ready to turn. Some things I don't want to shovel.

to sense
..

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rainbowgardener
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A couple threads where the human urine in the compost pile has been discussed before:

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=175050#175050

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=165051#165051

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Hitched_Gibson
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And I thought it stopped at manure on Craigslist and dumpster diving.

bogydave
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I'm more comfortable throwing some 22-4-4 fertilizer in the pile for nitrogen than some other nitrogen sources.
I'm told it's no longer "organic" but I'm OK with that. The components used to make fertilizers are derived from Mother Nature, so IMO, fertilizer is acceptable to me. To me it beats "bone meal" & "blood meal" , which can be called organic but are derived from slaughter houses from animals that have been injected with many hormones & antibiotics. But I didn't get asked when they came up with the "certified organic" specs.
Just my opinion.

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rainbowgardener
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Synthetic fertilizers are petroleum based. It is derived ultimately from Mother Nature, but not a renewable resource.

I try to make my property a closed loop, nothing comes in, nothing goes out. It's not perfect because seeds and potting soil do come in, in the spring, and occasional plants as well. Eventually, I'm hoping with worm bin and more compost to eliminate most of that. But definitely nothing goes in to my compost pile that didn't come from my kitchen or the yard. And no yard "waste" goes out... I burn wood, chip up smaller wood for mulch.

bogydave
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Good info. I don't know the whole process of fertilizers.

I know it works my yard likes it & I've thrown some urea in compost pile to get them cooking.
Last edited by bogydave on Sun May 15, 2011 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rot
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..
I'm with rainbow but I do drag home the coffee grounds to add to things. I can't see paying money for something that's just going to compost so no ferts no bone meal.

One day my waste stream is going to be a trickle.

to sense
..

pickupguy07
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I have a question about using pallets to make your compost bins.
I saw several drawings and pictures of ones people had built.
Looked like the 'top' side of the pallets were turned in to hold the compost better. I also saw where the gaps between the top boards were filled in... maing the surface against the compost pile fairly solid. Only small gaps - maybe 1/4 inch or less between boards. This all makes perfect sense since you want to keep the compost from falling through the cracks.

Now I read that the pile needs plenty of air... if you don't fill in the slots, obviously the compost will fall out, seem to attract more pest, vermin, etc.
But I was curious how much air is 'enough'... and if the gaps filled in will inhibit the composting process.

I have one bin built as I described above. Kinda need to stop building any more I think until I get some various ideas on this. Hate to go to a lot of work and it be detrimental also.

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Hitched_Gibson
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I just put the top sides in. It really doesn't come through that much. Maybe every five times I turn it, I will clean up what fell out. [/img]

bogydave
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Pic of mine
[img]https://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/100_6262.jpg[/img]

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Hitched_Gibson
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Makes sense. Once I get good at this whole gardening thing, I think I'll make one like that.

P.S. What part of Alaska are you in? We moved from FBX about a year ago.

bogydave
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[quote="Hitched_Gibson"]Makes sense. Once I get good at this whole gardening thing, I think I'll make one like that.

P.S. What part of Alaska are you in? We moved from FBX about a year ago.[/quote]
south central

rot
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..
I haven't had much fall out of my pallet bins.

Now I nail window screen to keep the critters out so when I make a new one, I look for wider gaps as long as I'm going to nail down the window screen.

to sense
..

pickupguy07
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Bogy_Dave
whats the pipes at the bottom for.??
Anyone else use these

toxcrusadr
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Rainbowgardener wrote:
Synthetic fertilizers are petroleum based.
Not to be fussy but I thought this would be interesting for everyone:

The N component (ie ammonium nitrate) is made by reacting nitrogen and steam at high temperature and pressure (the Haber process) which takes a lot of natural gas. Sources indicate 3-5% of the world's natural gas production goes to producing 100 million tons per year of ammonia, ammonium nitrate and urea.

P and K are from mined materials like phosphate rock, potash and bat guano.

Of course, all of this takes a lot of petroleum to ship the stuff all over the place, but there is no petroleum in fertlizer.

bogydave
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[quote="pickupguy07"] Bogy_Dave
whats the pipes at the bottom for.??
Anyone else use these [/quote]

Air

pickupguy07
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ok.. makes sense..
My first thought was to catch the 'tea' (somehow or other.)
I have several pipes like that laying around.. good idea.

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rainbowgardener
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"The N component (ie ammonium nitrate) is made by reacting nitrogen and steam at high temperature and pressure (the Haber process) which takes a lot of natural gas" natural gas is also a non-renewable resource.


Synthetic chemicals are produced with extremely high levels of petroleum inputs and concentrated to allow mass production, easy transport and application, and high response rates from plants. The high concentrations of nitrogen, the major nutrient for plant growth, cause plants to grow rapidly, but the faster growth does not mean better plants or food, just more of it. Everyone is familiar with tasteless tomatoes, bland corn, oversized, watery lettuce, and other commodities that lack the flavor and nutrients of food grown with better attention to the health of the soil, the plant, and the quality of the fruit or vegetable. https://www.ediblecommunities.com/shastabutte/online-magazine/winter-2011/we-speak-organic-here.htm

Synthetic fertilizers use non-renewable fossil fuels. The energy consumed to make synthetic nitrogen for U.S. farmers for one year (13.1 million tons) would heat about 5.5 million Midwestern homes all year long....Twelve years ago, the U.S. was the world's largest exporter of N fertilizer; now we are the largest importer. More than half the nitrogen our farmers now use comes from places like Trinidad, Russia, and the Persian Gulf, where natural gas is cheaper than in the U.S. https://www.organicvalley.coop/why-organic/synthetic-fertilizers/

The above is a really nice article about why to use organic instead of synthetic / chemical fertilizers.

rot
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Where's the Helpful Gardener when you need him.

I thought the biggest problem with industrial fertilizers was they mess up the soil biology and chemistry. The plants get a big boost, maybe too big of a boost but then once those nutrients are gone, and they're gone soon, you have screwed up soil with little life in it and now nutrients so you get addicted to these industrial fertilizers.

It's kind of like getting hooked on coffee. It keeps you up at night so when you get up in the morning, you need more coffee to get going.

The angle of approach I'm trying to take is to feed the soil which will then feed the plants. I think I'm doing something right because I now have robins hunting for worms our yard where they weren't for a while when we first moved in. I've got pill bugs all summer in once what was hydrophobic beds. I've also got bulbs that came to life apparently from pervious owners that I didn't know were there. And all I'm doing is mulching with everything I can get my hands on from compost to coffee grounds to grass clippings. Now I'm on a campaign to reduce water use.

Feed the soil and everything else will follow.

to sense
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