Am I Doing Something Wrong?

[ButterflyGarden]

I put a bunch of organic material (leaves, veggie peels) and some coffee grinds in a large plant pot (with holes), put it outside and waited. It's been a year and although everything got dry it doesn't look anything like the compost I've seen other people make. It just looks like dry veggie peels and leaves. What am I doing wrong?

[rainbowgardener]

"Everything got dry" Compost piles quit working when they dry out.

A compost pile is like a living creature, it needs the nutrients you put in the pile AND air AND water. I water my compost pile any time the weather is dry enough to water the garden.

The air comes from turning or mixing. I don't do a lot of that, but I do turn the pile over every couple months or so, and I do in between punch holes down through the pile with a long stick to be sure air can circulate.

Other thoughts - compost piles work better when they are bigger. But by itself that shouldn't have stopped it from composting. Does your pot full of organics sit on the ground? If not, it would help it you put some earthworms in it. Part of the work of composting is done by microbial action, but some of the heavy lifting is done by earthworms breaking the materials down into smaller particles that the microbes like better.

But the main thing is don't let it dry out. They usually say the pile should be as damp as a wrung out sponge. Any less than that and it stops working.

[ButterflyGarden]

Thanks, I'll try watering.

[cynthia_h]

How large is the "large plant pot"? Small volumes of compost ingredients won't build up enough heat to break down. The ingredients want to be damp, a mix of greens (nitrogen-rich) and browns (carbon-rich), aerated (no problem there, it sounds like ), and warm.

Most sources you'll find links to on the forum recommend 3'x3'x3' (a cubic yard) as the minimum size for generating sufficient heat to decompose ingredients. Tumblers and other equipment designed to work in smaller spaces generate this heat by confining the ingredients within the chamber itself so that the heat is retained and not dissipated to the atmosphere.

This may be an underlying difficulty (plus the ingredients having gone dry) in the process coming to a halt. But it can be restarted with more ingredients, water, etc.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Gloves]

I have also had some problems with my compost pile.

The size is probably ok. There are 5 things I'm going to be doing different this year.

• Moving it to the sunny side of the yard (it's enclosed, so shouldn't loose to much moisture)
• Going to put it on a wood pallet to increase breathing
• Turn it more often (didn't turn it at all)
• Will water it (didn't water it at all)
• Will add some red worms once I feel it can support them

Shows my compost bin:
[img]https://www.glovesandclover.com/garden2011/GEDC0011.jpg[/img]

[ButterflyGarden]

It's in a 30 Liter pot (I don't know how they measure in the states but that's how they measure here). I live on the 7th floor so I don't have any worms. Are they safe to keep in the pot if I have small children around?

[rainbowgardener]

Yes the earthworms 1) will stay in the pot as long as there is adequate food and moisture and 2) cannot harm your children, even if they came out of the pot and even if the children decided to eat the worms. They don't bite, they aren't toxic and kids survive eating worms just fine. When I was a kid we used to have a little song/ chant about it "nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm going to go eat worms. Big ones, little ones, fat ones, skinny ones, I'm going to go eat worms."

[M.Clark]

I found for me, a 50-gallon Rubbermaid can with a bunch of holes (bottom and sides) works great. But, I have been considering building a cubic yard bin, but I need to clean the brush and fill that has accumulated over the past decade out before I put it in.

(Off Topic)

Knife throwing backboard? That is the coolest thing I have seen in a while. Now all I need to do is convince the wife to let me build one!

[toxcrusadr]

7th floor, so your bin is on the balcony I expect? Good for you for giving it a try under difficult conditions.

I don't know what your climate is like but if it gets hot in the summer, or freezes in winter, worms are probably not going to survive those conditions. You can do *worm composting* using a worm bin, but that's a different animal, and in most climates needs to be indoors. A normal compost bin or pile does not need to have worms added to it. They are particular about moisture and temperature. The poster above (Gloves) who is planning to move their enclosed bin into the sun and add worms will likely have dead worms, or they will simply escape into the ground when it gets too hot and dry. If you build a pile or place a bin on the ground, they will come up by themselves when conditions are right. And, you can make compost without ever having worms in it.

Butterfly, compost does not have to heat up to decompose, so although your 6-gal. container is small, if you keep it moist, keep a lid on it, and turn it ow and then, you'll get some compost. One problem you'll have is that you have to stop adding material at some point and let it finish. Once you get this to work you might want to have TWO bins...

Finally, if you are on a balcony and not on the ground you might think about adding a handful of soil to inoculate it with all the microbes it needs. That could be part of your problem also.

[toxcrusadr]

PS as proof that you don't need heat to make compost, y'all can come over and look in the vegetable drawer in my refrigerator any time.

[ButterflyGarden]

Toxcrusadr, thanks for the info. I live in Israel which is on the Mediterranean and so we have a hot summer and a fairly mild winter (although it snows for a day or two once every few years). I'll try covering the pot and keeping it watered. Thanks!

Also, can I add garlic and onion skins into my compost? I read in one place that they will not work.

[Gloves]

I would like to add to ButterflyGarden's question, Can you add banana peels to the compost? Someone hand told me not to without explanation.

[cynthia_h]

There's an extensive Sticky at the top of the Compost Forum listing *many* things that will, and a few that won't, compost. They're also described as greens or browns. Take a look at

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9089

Cynthia

[toxcrusadr]

Nothing at all wrong with garlic, onions and banana peels. I don't know where all these ideas come from, but they are all over the place. I run into a lot of people who think they can't put baked goods in (mostly grain, right?). Or spoiled food - I tell them why not, it just has a head start. Citrus is another one people worry about. Basically, almost anything that ever grew on a plant can be composted.

[rot]

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ButterflyGardens -
Small composting like you are doing is hard not to mention on the 7th floor in a dry climate. My climate is similar.

Tox made some good points for you but I'm not going anywhere near his refrigerator.

The tiny scale you are attempting makes it hard for me to advise but I'll reinforce what Tox had to say - keep moist - but not too moist. Consider a spray bottle and a couple of spritzes a day and keep covered. Observe and adjust.

Again, at the scale you are attempting, many rules probably won't apply. Observe and adjust as you go along. It will all break down eventually.
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Gloves -
Again Tox makes a good point. I'm in Calley Forn Ya too and it's dry. Look out for the sun and the wind - it'll suck the moisture right out of your bin.

Nice pic too with all the labels. Really appreciate the labels.

The banana peel incident - I haven't reviewed the sticky in quite some time. I have never heard of an issue with banana peels. For what it's worth: I fear no banana peels.
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Tox -
You've thoroughly covered most bases but don't worms have issues with onions and garlic? I don't have any issues with onions and garlic but the folks around me do. And lock up that refrigerator.
..

[rainbowgardener]

Yeah, the worms in my worm bin don't like onions and garlic. They break down just fine in my compost pile, though. So the question is, is what BG doing more like a worm bin or a compost pile?

Differences between the two: size, amount of aeration, other decomposers and decomposition processes besides just earthworms, variety of materials.

But BG didn't mention putting any earthworms in the container and they didn't likely appear there naturally on a 7th floor balcony, so the onions and garlic should be fine in that set up.

But BG has anyone suggested a worm bin? That would be a good solution for you. Type worm bin, vermicomposting, worm composting etc into the Search the Forum keyword box and you will find lots written here about them.

[rot]

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I picture Israel having lots of garlic, onions and citrus. Three things worms no like. Couple that with a hot dry climate like mine on a 7th floor balcony and I'm not sure worms are all that practicable. Small scale to boot.

My money goes with spritzing with a spay bottle on a regular basis and maybe inserting some shredded paper now and again.

Observe and adjust.

to sense
..

[ButterflyGarden]

We do have lots of onions and garlic and citrus (we have the worlds BEST oranges ) but the average Israeli diet is very high in vegetables. We eat a lot of tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, celery, radishes, peppers, carrots, ect. so I have tons of veggie peels and ends and cores to put in. Since I'm a container gardener it didn't occur to me that I'm doing this on a comparatively small scale. Would it be a good idea to move it into the shade when the temps start getting into the 90's and 100's?

[rainbowgardener]

No it doesn't matter as long as you are not doing worm bin. The worms would cook. But your compost pile is supposed to heat up.

[rot]

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The sun and wind will rob the moisture out of your bin. You want to keep things moist.

to sense
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[toxcrusadr]

Not being a worm bin guy, I missed the onions/garlic/citrus issue. Good catch. But our poster seems inclined to stay with the 'small compost bin on the balcony' approach so it can all go in. I still think a handful of soil or live compost would help.

rot: I could lock up the fridge and just make it an environmental sacrifice zone like Times Beach or Love Canal, but I think it's still save-able. If I'm not back in three days, send a search party, I'm goin' in!

[ButterflyGarden]

What is live compost?

[toxcrusadr]

I just meant fairly fresh, rather than compost that was dried out and old where the microbial population has fallen drastically. Like the stuff you buy in a bag at the garden center.