green vs brown

[annastasia76]

I am just learning about compost, and I am seeing some conflicting info out there as to how much of each you are supposed to add. I checked out a book (frugal gardening) from the library that says 4 parts brown to 1 part green (and it has to be shredded) but I have seen on websites other info, like 3 parts green to 1 part brown but not mention of it having to be shredded.

we do not have much to compost here, not much in the way of leaves, tons of weeds though but since we have been catching it on time it's getting less and less each year. I do have a neighbor with several horses that I can get manure from and possibly straw/left over uneaten hay. I can scrounge for leaves though I think it's the wrong time right now. I may also beg for neighbor's old newspapers and shred that. but I am looking for the quickest method of getting good compost so I am planing on having to turn it, so any hints and tips are more than welcome. also any no no's.

also with horse manure, how long does it have to compost before it's usable and how long until the seeds won't sprout. same for if I get cow manure because I know somebody with cows also.

[M.Clark]

I do the 3 to 1 ratio but it all depends on what I am adding. Green grass clippings (greens) end up being a closer to a 4 to 1, but spent grain or coffee grounds (both greens) can go as lean as a 2 to 1 ratio. Anything shredded will break up faster, so just about everything gets cut into pieces.

If you start a pile and it starts to stink you either have too much green or too much water. Best solution in both cases is a bunch of shredded newspaper (with soy based ink) or brown paper bags. If you dig it up to mix the pile and there is little to heat, or if there are no worms, add more green.

[farmerlon]

University Extension Agencies recommend a Carbon/Nitrogen ratio of 25:1 or 30:1 as ideal for compost processing.

Does anyone ever know what the real ratio is in their compost? ... I doubt it.
I think the idea is to know the average C:N ratio in each material that you're using, so you can make an "educated guess" as to whether you need more Browns or more Greens added to the mix.

This is a neat Compost Mix calculator that you can play with online; it can help you estimate what the C:N ratio is in your mix ... [url]https://klickitatcounty.org/SolidWaste/fileshtml/organics/compostcalc.htm[/url]

Composting is fun !!!

[rot]

..
It's never clear to me about these ratios whether it dry weight or wet or by volume. It 's not always clear to me either when it's said: 'damp as wrung out sponge'.


For me, I figured out a long time ago I was only going to get the optimal mix of ingredients with a bit of luck. So, start out with what's on hand and aim for say half and half of greens vs browns by volume. I have no idea what kind of ingredients you might end up with so starting at half and half is a start. Add water.

If things are dry and cool and just don't seem to be doing anything, turn and add water as you do so. If you observe a lot of dry pockets, hopefully the water will correct things. In So Cal it's pretty dry anywhere you go so you'll need to watch to make sure things don't dry out. You can help by shielding your pile or bin from the sun and the wind. Ideally I like to water a little bit each day.

If it's not simply a matter of dryness then you'll want to add greens as you turn.

The opposite problem would be a wet stinky messy thing. Turn the pile or bin breaking up clumps and just mixing air through out and maybe blending things a little more. If you observe soggy clumps of gunk you'll want to ease up on the water some (I find it easy to over water even in dry country) and mix in some dry browns.

As you experiment, your experience will guide to better and better mixes with what's on hand. go a little heavier on the browns to end up with more compost but more browns takes longer.

If you actively work your bins or piles by regular turning (one study indicated optimum rate was turning every 4.5 days but once a week should be plenty active) and watch that moisture content adding water as required, it can go as quickly as two months. I'd expect 3 or more when you start out. Maybe it'll work out in your favor. When you can't recognize what you threw in, it's a pretty good indication you're done. Sticks take a really long time so don't hold out for all the sticks to break down to an unrecognizable state.

Check out this handy dandy list of ingredients with C:N ratios where grass clippings are at the green end of the spectrum and saw dust being at the other extreme and compare where the ingredients you might have falls in the spectrum.

https://compost.css.cornell.edu/OnFarmHandbook/apa.taba1.html

Don't stress out on the ideal mix. What works best is what works for you.

Here is an easy read to give you different ideas. It covers all the basics and is good to look over every now and again. Use it as a reference or as a study.

https://www.compostinfo.com/

The neat thing about compost is you can be as elaborate and as energy intensive as you want to or as casual and lazy as you care. If you forget about it or go on vacation, there's always a way to start things back up when you get back to it. Make it work for you and don't go changing your life about to make it work - change the compost. You're not going to end up with a major disaster.

two cents
..

[rainbowgardener]

Yeah, the nice thing is it's not rocket science. My piles are a little more green in the growing season when there's tons of weeds and cuttings, and a little more brown in the winter when it's mostly kitchen scraps covered by lots of fall leaves... it all composts!

But having a mix of greens and browns is important. I have fall leaves to add all through winter and spring, because I collect a bunch of bags of them while they are available. If you check the green / brown sticky there's lots of ideas for browns.

The idea of shredding is you don't want things in big pieces to block air circulation. When I empty a bag of leaves (brown paper yard waste bags) I put the bag in too. I don't "shred" them, but I do tear them into more or less notebook size pieces.

[toxcrusadr]

Yeah, pile it up and let it rot. The important thing is not to stress out too much about the exact proportions. Mother Nature will adjust.

I agree that proportions expressed in C:N or other ratios with no units of wt., volume or dry vs. wet are fairly useless. When I have a wheelbarrow of very heavy fresh grass clippings, and I'm mixing it with bags of last fall's very dry leaves, well, you get the picture. I worked out a ratio that works by trial and error.

Compost happens!

[greenstubbs]

95% of my compost every year consists of grass clippings and I have no problems growing stuff, I think it's all hype with what to add and what not to add. Mother nature takes care of herself regardless.

[gixxerific]

I am under the 3:1 schooling. But I just add what I have and it works out. If it get way too far on one side ot the other I will try to make up for it, but manily I just add what I have and forget it.

[applestar]

All GREAT advice!

Just a couple of comments from me --

Sticks take a really long time so don't hold out for all the sticks to break down to an unrecognizable state

That said, adding sticks and branches is a good way to create air-pockets and maintain loft so the compost pile doesn't compact. The sticks also harbor fungal growth which will slowly break down the sticks. Just keep tossing the sticks back in the pile until they crumble in your hands, then they're ready. Though I put blackened composting but not yet brittle sticks of various appropriate sizes in planting holes and containers along with the compost.

95% of my compost every year consists of grass clippings and I have no problems growing stuff

I think success of this method will depend on whether you have an open-air pile or closed container, moisture levels, how often you turn, etc. Most soggy stinky compost SOS reported matted pile with overwhelming grass content however.

[toxcrusadr]

I am under the 3:1 schooling. But I just add what I have and it works out. If it get way too far on one side ot the other I will try to make up for it, but manily I just add what I have and forget it.

Three whats to a what? is my question.

[gixxerific]

I am under the 3:1 schooling. But I just add what I have and it works out. If it get way too far on one side ot the other I will try to make up for it, but manily I just add what I have and forget it.

Three whats to a what? is my question.

That was supposed to be 30:1 It's always Carbon/Nitrogen. There is more carbon that nitrogen in just about everything.


https://www.compostinfo.com/tutorial/ElementOfComposting.htm

Carbon to Nitrogen Ratio

Scientists speak of an ideal ratio of Carbon to Nitrogen of 30 to 1 (30:1), as measured on a dry weight basis. This is known as the C:N ratio. But DON'T GET CAUGHT UP IN THE NUMBERS. What's important is to understand how greens and browns affect the compost process and to use them to manage your compost system.

You can calculate the C:N ratio of your materials by using the chart below. For example, if you have two bags of grass clippings (C:N = 20:1) and one bag of leaves (C:N = 60:1) then combined you have a C:N ration of (20:1 + 20:1 + 60:1)/3 = (100:1)/3 = 33:1, which is pretty close to the ideal (C:N = 30:1).

You may also use the Virtual Pile, which will calculate C:N ratios for you. If you have a slow connect speed, the Virtual Pile may take a minute or two to load.
Material C:N Ratio
Coffee Grounds 20:1
Corn Stalks 60:1
Cow Manure 20:1
Fruit Wastes 35:1
Grass Clippings 20:1
Horse Manure w/ Litter 60:1
Leaves 60:1
Newspaper 50-200:1
Oak Leaves (Green) 26:1
Peat Moss 58:1
Pine Needles 60-110:1
Rotted Manure 20:1
Sawdust / Wood 600:1
Sawdust Weathered for two months 325:1
Straw 80-100:1
Table Scraps 15:1
Vegetable Trimmings 12-20:1

Note that all plants have more carbon than nitrogen; that is why the C:N ratio is always above 1.0. Grass has a great deal more nitrogen than wood chips, thus it is called a "green" material. Wood chips are very high in carbon, but low in nitrogen. Thus they are called a "brown" material.

All plant material contains a mixture of Carbon and Nitrogen, and all plant material will compost over time. You will find the right mix of materials for your composting needs by trial and error. Don't worry so much about the C:N ratio, just understand that it can be a factor in your composting process.