...Of commercial compost?
Mine is always full of some roley poleys, snakes, worms, spiders, millipedes etc., at various stages of compost decomposition.
But even when complete there are some crawlies.
When I buy the occasional bag of compost from HD or Lowes...no bugs.
How do ya figure they are getting the bugs out?
After it is done, things move in. Had a garter snake lay eggs in a finished pile.applestar wrote:Well, part of it must be that in a really hot compost pile, the bugs won't survive/move out. Screening with large and small screens can help to separate some things out too....
Are you saying they are selling compost that is still hot? No, I know you are not, but you are right in that the heat drives everything off.
I'm talking finished compost ready for the bags. SCreens don't catch millipedes and roley poleys all the time.
I don't know for sure, but this would be my guess ... the large commercial composting operations use a lot of machinery. Materials are trucked in, stirred with large windrow aerators and/or tractor buckets, moved from place-to-place by tractor and truck, sifted by large metal tumblers, and then sealed up in plastic bags before being mashed onto pallets and shipped to the stores.
From the combination of the heat of the compost piles, and all the mechanical mashing and bashing that goes on, I bet the bugs simply can't survive all that abuse.
From the combination of the heat of the compost piles, and all the mechanical mashing and bashing that goes on, I bet the bugs simply can't survive all that abuse.
Those are some great points.farmerlon wrote:I don't know for sure, but this would be my guess ... the large commercial composting operations use a lot of machinery. Materials are trucked in, stirred with large windrow aerators and/or tractor buckets, moved from place-to-place by tractor and truck, sifted by large metal tumblers, and then sealed up in plastic bags before being mashed onto pallets and shipped to the stores.
From the combination of the heat of the compost piles, and all the mechanical mashing and bashing that goes on, I bet the bugs simply can't survive all that abuse.
I was thinking somewhat along the same lines in that commercial operations are looking for speed and efficiency. With all the movement in and around the rows, there may be little time for larger bugs to make a home.
With my piles in various stages, there seems to be plenty of time for critters to move in after the heat dissipates.
Snakes! 6 inch long garter snakes had a field day in one of the finished piles. Maybe they are eating all the millipedes from the pile of bark and cedar mulch!!!
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rot
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Bugs are a good sign. That means your compost is living. Snakes, while I'm sure are a pain in the neck, are a further sign that the compost is supporting a diverse group of life forms.
Compost without a lot of bugs is kind of dead.
So compost for your living plants? That you might eat? Which would be better? Dead compost or living?
to sense
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Bugs are a good sign. That means your compost is living. Snakes, while I'm sure are a pain in the neck, are a further sign that the compost is supporting a diverse group of life forms.
Compost without a lot of bugs is kind of dead.
So compost for your living plants? That you might eat? Which would be better? Dead compost or living?
to sense
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I know my compost is far superior to commercial compost and the local community product as well.
I have had to buy it as I'm sure many of us have, but I have always wondered about the quality. Leaves and tree branch mulch provide only a portion of the nutrients achieved by the wide array of home composting (kitchen scraps, yard waste, multiple species of plants, etc.).
The lack of any kind of bugs always makes me scratch my head.
I have had to buy it as I'm sure many of us have, but I have always wondered about the quality. Leaves and tree branch mulch provide only a portion of the nutrients achieved by the wide array of home composting (kitchen scraps, yard waste, multiple species of plants, etc.).
The lack of any kind of bugs always makes me scratch my head.
my guess is that the commercial compost is more mature and stable then your own. Under a scope, the more finished the compost, the less action you see. The substance has become stable. Just like our economy, the economy in a compost pile cannot support larger organisms unless there is instability (inequality).
The process of going from dead veggies to humus is essentially a stabilization of carbon. The critters you are talking about hang around unstable or very fragile carbon chains (sugars, etc...)
The process of going from dead veggies to humus is essentially a stabilization of carbon. The critters you are talking about hang around unstable or very fragile carbon chains (sugars, etc...)
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Lifestyle Lift Journey
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I have one of those barrel type compost. The barrel is off the ground and the lid is closed unless I'm adding materials. Apart from small holes for aeration, there is no space for unwanted creatures to enter. I do still have fruit flies. I suppress them with lime. Earth worms I added to the compost are helping to speed up the composting process. The barrel type compost is easy to mix the contents, that helps aeration and decompose things evenly. I recommend it.
But since you have your pile already, maybe you can check on composting factors like:
To check
Oxygenation and air
Temperature and 90-135f (30-60c)
Water content and not too dry, not too wet
Waste Surface area and the smaller the piece the easier to decompose
Carbon/Nitrogen Ratio and 1 part Nitrogenous to 2-3 parts Carbonaceous to keep the temperature
I don't add things below to the compost bin because they can cause maggots and other crawlies.
Not to add
Meat
Fat Bones
Citrus
Onion & onion family (chives, leeks, garlic etc)
Fish
Dairy products
Pet waste
Large wood chips
Diseased plants or weeds
I hope this helps.
Good luck!
But since you have your pile already, maybe you can check on composting factors like:
To check
Oxygenation and air
Temperature and 90-135f (30-60c)
Water content and not too dry, not too wet
Waste Surface area and the smaller the piece the easier to decompose
Carbon/Nitrogen Ratio and 1 part Nitrogenous to 2-3 parts Carbonaceous to keep the temperature
I don't add things below to the compost bin because they can cause maggots and other crawlies.
Not to add
Meat
Fat Bones
Citrus
Onion & onion family (chives, leeks, garlic etc)
Fish
Dairy products
Pet waste
Large wood chips
Diseased plants or weeds
I hope this helps.
Good luck!
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rainbowgardener
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but agree with soil... all the earthworms, roly polys, and other critters are part of the natural cycle you are trying to create. Most of them are detritovores, that help break stuff down. All of them feed the soil with their castings/ droppings and eventually with their bodies. Some of them (eg the snakes and spiders) eat some of the insects you don't want around.
I'll take compost that's full of life any time, over stuff that's been sealed in plastic!
I'll take compost that's full of life any time, over stuff that's been sealed in plastic!
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toxcrusadr
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toxcrusadr
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I am very curious about your avoidance of the citrus and onion family. Many of us put those in with no observable problems.Lifestyle Lift Journey wrote:I don't add things below to the compost bin because they can cause maggots and other crawlies.
Not to add
Meat
Fat Bones
Citrus
Onion & onion family (chives, leeks, garlic etc)
Fish
Dairy products
Pet waste
Large wood chips
Diseased plants or weeds
I hope this helps.
Good luck!
There is a belief in some circles that citrus will throw the pH off, but unless your entire pile is mostly citrus peels, it's not going to have a significant effect. The organic acids will biodegrade, unlike mineral acids. They can take a bit longer to decompose, so I tend to chop them up in smaller pieces. I actually wonder about the acidity of the peels in the first place, obviously the flesh/juice is acidic, but do we really know about the peels?
As for the onion family, this is new to me, perhaps you can elaborate?
Just trying to upgrade my knowledge base. :-]
Mineral or organic, any acid gets buffered by aerobic bacteria (specifically, the polysaccharides they produce). Likewise, neutral items containing lignin and cellulose will increase acidity when broken down by fungi.
We are used to thinking of our species as unique - the only ones who manipulate the environment rather than adapting to it. But take a look at what's really going on, we see plants and microbes have an impact on the planetary and local environment far greater than our own (thank the dog!).
We are used to thinking of our species as unique - the only ones who manipulate the environment rather than adapting to it. But take a look at what's really going on, we see plants and microbes have an impact on the planetary and local environment far greater than our own (thank the dog!).
Nah, I was in Arlington, VA this summer at a friend's and his neighbor had some municipal compost delivered by the truckload the day or so prior. It had rained and the compost stunk God-awful. The owner was very upset (very nice neighborhood) and said it was because the compost was not finished and that was a common problem with minincipal compost.Toil wrote:...and I'm pretty sure the answer is that the commercial stuff has no more bug food in it, while your homemade stuff still has bug food. Ergo... bugs!
where nothing is decomposing, there are no decomposers.
So, in my OP, I was talking about my finished compost. Finished, all the way, done, no more breaking down, completely DONE. Since it sits outside, it has bugs in it. Yup, just like the lawn and forest and any other pile of anything.
I think the question was answered early on and again, this is not about MY compost thank you.
LOL.
so what do you suppose the bugs are eating? Are they just living in your pile, and going out from it to forage?
I can assure you, the amount of life you see, whether with your naked eye or a microscope, is proportional to available food sources. This is true in your worm bin, hot pile, or sheet composting, especially when there are few disturbances. Tilled earth will not show any microscopic soil mites, and if I see them I know for sure the earth has not been tilled for quite some time.
As pointed out, heat will also eradicate all the critters. In nature, we call that catastrophe.
But as you just pointed out, if you leave a pile of food outside, things will come and eat it. "Finished" is a subjective term, meaning "ready for your purposes". Maybe I should have said "stable".
I imagine a large windrow operation consistently hits very high temps. Where is the heat coming from? It is lost energy that would otherwise become more bugs.
I can assure you, the amount of life you see, whether with your naked eye or a microscope, is proportional to available food sources. This is true in your worm bin, hot pile, or sheet composting, especially when there are few disturbances. Tilled earth will not show any microscopic soil mites, and if I see them I know for sure the earth has not been tilled for quite some time.
As pointed out, heat will also eradicate all the critters. In nature, we call that catastrophe.
But as you just pointed out, if you leave a pile of food outside, things will come and eat it. "Finished" is a subjective term, meaning "ready for your purposes". Maybe I should have said "stable".
I imagine a large windrow operation consistently hits very high temps. Where is the heat coming from? It is lost energy that would otherwise become more bugs.