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engineeredgarden
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Composting 101, for the beginner

As is common with most first-time composters, my first year of backyard composting was a complete disaster. I tried it in a barrel that was rolled around on the ground every week or so, and all I ended up with was a gooey mess inside. The greatest lessons in life are learned from failures, but it's important to not give up when efforts fall short of success. With a few years of frustrating composting cycles now under my belt, I can proudly say that I can compost - and do it pretty well.

Now, I'd like to share what I have learned about the process with anyone composting for the first time.

Terms frequently used in composting are:

Browns - This is simply a source of carbon, and can be from all kinds of sources - paper, straw, wood, fallen leaves, etc.

Greens - This is simply a source of nitrogen, and can be from all kinds of sources, too - grass clippings, UCG's, vegetable and fruit scraps, dry dog food, dry molasses, and alfalfa meal or pellets, etc.

UCG's - Used coffee grounds


The reading material concerning composting education is confusing to most, and even I had a difficult time understanding what it all meant. I mean, it seems that everyone has their own idea on how to do it, and most even get way too technical when discussing the subject. It isn't rocket science.....We are simply trying our best to duplicate what naturally happens in nature - but at a much more accelerated rate.

Fact: A pile that has a C:N ratio of 30:1 is best. This is supported by every agricultural institution, but what does it mean?

It simply means that if you construct a pile that has ingredients that (combined) measures 30 parts carbon and 1 part nitrogen, it has the ideal proportions of browns and greens for decomposition to take place.

How does a person achieve this combination?
Everything has a C:N value, and here are some values of ingredients....

Leaves (fallen, brown in color) - 50:1
Paper - 400:1
Grass clippings - 15:1
Fruit scraps - 35:1
Vegetable scraps - 20:1
UCG's - 20:1

*Mix ingredients by volume, not weight.....

If you combine equal parts of leaves and grass clippings, the overall C:N ratio would be 32:1

- leaves and UCG's, the overall C:N ratio would be 35:1

- paper and grass clippings, the overall C:N ratio would be 207:1

If paper is your only resource of browns, you will need to add TONS of greens to achieve an overall mixture of 30:1. It would be something like -

1 part paper, 20 parts grass clippings - for an overall combined C:N ratio of 33:1
*Needless to say, paper is not a good choice of browns......

Chop, shred, or reduce the size of any ingredient added to the pile, because this gives the microbes more surface area to work with, and also increases boimass compression.

Build a pile that is between 3' x 3' x 3' and 4' x 4' x 4', because as the core temperature of the pile heats up, it needs an insulator to keep the heat from dissipating into the atmosphere. The outer crust of the pile serves this purpose......Also, a pile larger than 4' x 4' x 4' won't let air reach the microbes in the center. No air in the center means you'll be using the anaerobic microbes for decomposition - which is slow, stinky, and not desirable at all. Instead, you want the pile to be no bigger than 4ft cubed, so that oxygen can reach the core, which is called aerobic composting. Aerobic microbes work very efficiently, and produce lots of heat as the greens and browns are broken down. So, that's the reason why size of pile matters............

Also, the pile has to be watered occasionally - but don't over do it....I use rainwater for mine, because municipal water will kill the microbes that do all the work for you. A healthy population of microbes is the key to rapid decompostion of a compost pile, and it's important to keep them fed and watered.

Once the ingredients and moisture level are correct, the pile will heat up. I like for mine to be between 130 and 150 degrees, and use a compost thermometer to measure the internal core temperature at least once per week. Once the temp falls below 110 degrees, turn the pile and add some water. If you have some greens to add, throw them in there too. Things will heat back up again in a day or two. If the temperature is between 130-150, don't disturb it - let the microbes do their thing....

Obviously, the best time to compost is during warm weather, but it's not always possible to have enough greens/browns on hand to do this at this time of year. I've found it best to accumulate bagged leaves in the fall, then build a new pile as grass clippings become available during warm weather. Doing the opposite is not suggested, because the grass clippings stored in bags clumps really bad, and must be broken up throughout the entire composting cycle. For the record, it takes ALOT of leaves to amount to anything.

I hope this post was helpful to anyone that takes the time to read it.

EG

gumbo2176
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My goodness, heck of a tutorial on composting. I do compost and my pile gets all my veg. scraps, coffee grounds, yard waste, leaves and I go get a pickup truck load of wood shavings, hay and horse manure from the New Orleans Police Dept. stables that has been cooking for months when I pick it up to add to my pile. Like you mentioned, my pile is kept between the sizes you mentioned as being ideal by your calculations.

That combination makes for a pretty nice addition to the clay based soil of my garden. I probably add about 2-3 cubic yards of this material a year once it has broken down. I know it's good when I turn it over and the worms are plentiful and most are 5-6 inches long. When I see them, it makes me want to go wet a line and catch some catfish.

MikeP09
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nice tutorial!! Question though,, can I continue to build up greens ( which I have an abundance of ) and save them till fall when I can have an abundance of browns ( leaves) with no probs? or should I start mixing paper or go and buy some hay or something?

SkyKero
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You can use paper or newspaper or cardboard for your browns.

No need to wait for leaves -- maybe even wood chips would work --I know we can get some delivered around my neighborhood (but it is a truckload -- probably too much for you :)!)

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microcollie
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Not sure if you picked the right title for your post...sounds more like advanced composting :P

I've always had luck just throwing on any kitchen waste, yard waste (that I don't suspect of containing any pathogens) twigs (to provide good aeration), paper (only when I can be certain that it's organic, ink and all) etc without any thought about proportions. I turn it every now and then when I remember (probably two to three times a year). It gets only the water that nature provides. Some things take longer to decompose than others, but when I want compost, I shovel it through a riddle over my wheelbarrow and throw anything big back in.

I've been doing this for the past 15+ years with success. My gardens seem happy with the outcome and I don't have to expend any energy. My "bin" is simply an enclosure made of wire fencing, just to keep the wind from blowing leaves away in the fall. When I first started, it was just an unenclosed pile. The whole thing is about 6" x 8" and varies in height depending on the season and how much waste is around.

While I've read your post with interest, and I commend your thoroughness, I'd hate to see newbies to composting scared away by making it seem more difficult than it is. It's really just duplicating what nature does all the time in the woods.

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rainbowgardener
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Micro collie - I agree with you and I do similar lazy gardener style composting. I add stuff when ever I have it, but I am sure to always but a layer of browns on whenever I add greens. I do water my pile when it is hot and dry enough to water my garden. I turn it over about three times a year. I do collect bags of leaves in the fall which I save to add to the pile all winter as I add kitchen scraps.

But did you really mean to say your pile is about 6 inches by 8 inches? I can't imagine how you could make a pile that small and keep it piled.

But yes for those new to composting, it does not have to be technical or difficult or involve a lot of effort.

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microcollie
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Micro collie....micro composting...I guess " is the capitalizes version of '. Oops!

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engineeredgarden
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Well, I'm sorry for posting something that seems to be too technical - that wasn't the intention at all. Perhaps the mod for this forum can change the title....

EG

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rainbowgardener
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No don't apologize... it's a great summary! Just want people to know it isn't hard...

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microcollie
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I also meant only to say that composting isn't difficult. I applaud your system...I'm sure you get to your end result much faster than I do (I'm pretty sure that I have things in mine that have been there since day 1 :oops: ) Just wanted to let people know that you can be dumb and lazy and still, given time, end up with compost. No offense meant!

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engineeredgarden
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Well, most people that begin composting, do so out of necessity. Waiting 2 years for Mother Nature to make it for them is usually not an ideal situation. Most composting tutorials are either way too technical, or leave out key pieces of information. It was my intention to write a tutorial that would make the composting process easy to understand, by explaining the proper steps to achieving maximum potential from the decomposition process.
No offense taken....

EG

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EG, you are correct. I put off composting for years because a MG had me convinced I needed a science degree just to make compost from stuff I already had. Finally somebody pulled me aside and gave me the kind of overview you presented. One needs to have an idea of the proportions/ingredients but it's not an exact science. I have the occasional snafu but it can be corrected.

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gixxerific
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shadowsmom wrote: I have the occasional snafu but it can be corrected.
You hit it on the nose there. Compost Happens. You can make it as technical or as easy as you want. It will still happen. The main thing you can control is the time it takes to compost. If things go wrong just a little change will direct in the right direction.

Look at the forest floor it is was it is. You don't see anyone fertilizing the forest do you yet it grows with abundance, that is when man can keep his grubby little hands out of it of course.


Nice how-to EG.

planter
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It's only a complicated as you want to make it. I keep it simple and just add my greens and browns as they become available and add seaweed or turkey scat (loaded with fine wood chips) when I'm not too lazy to fetch it.

As far as I'm concerned Bokashi is still a breakfast cereal. I must admit that I like to keep my pile about 4X4 maybe 5X5 cause knowing they are hot is fun just by itself. Nothing like turning a hot steaming pile. I know I should let them finish cooking between turning but I LIKE turning them!!! :D

I will certainly give the benefit of the doubt to those of you who have advanced their composting skill and would guess your end product is better but my plants seem content.

One of the biggest drawbacks to composting is you do need material to work with and you can never get enough!

I am terrified of your 400 level course on composting. JK and good job. Thanks. :shock:

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Halfway
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I actually think that was about the simplest breakdown on composting I have read and is also very low maintenance.

Thanks for posting OP.

8)

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Scarecrow
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First the composting guidelines above are great! I do agree with others that it is easy. I just started composting in a plastic trash can and have filled it full once and turning every day or every other day. The full can is now below half full and ready to add more greens and browns. It has been interesting seeing this stuff break down.
gixxerific wrote:... Look at the forest floor it is was it is. You don't see anyone fertilizing the forest do you yet it grows with abundance, that is when man can keep his grubby little hands out of it of course.
Nice how-to EG.
So... I can use soil from the forest in my small garden bed?

Not wanting to take this thread sideways but where can I post questions about soil building or soil amending for growing vegetables? I don't see a forum dedicated to soil building.

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If you want the end product faster, it would be better if you get a second bin to put the fresh material in. Then when THAT breaks down, mix with the first 1/2 bin full. More precisely, start with two bins of fresh material, then combine into a 3rd bin when they're 1/2 done.

I think we generally do talk about organic soil building this forum. Also in the Organic Veg Gardening Forum when talking about preparing the soil in the veg bed.

rot
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..
I thought it was a pretty good explanation. I've tried to do just that myself and it's hard. As evidenced in some of the replies the tricky part is covering all the ifs, ands and buts that come up. There are so many variables from climate to materials to size to bin vs no bin.

The best I can do is explain how I do it and maybe toss in a couple of anecdotes on how others have done it quite differently. That and offer the caveat that what works best is what works for you.

Good job in my opinion.

to sense
..

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Halfway
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Scarecrow wrote:First the composting guidelines above are great! I do agree with others that it is easy. I just started composting in a plastic trash can and have filled it full once and turning every day or every other day. The full can is now below half full and ready to add more greens and browns. It has been interesting seeing this stuff break down.
gixxerific wrote:... Look at the forest floor it is was it is. You don't see anyone fertilizing the forest do you yet it grows with abundance, that is when man can keep his grubby little hands out of it of course.
Nice how-to EG.
So... I can use soil from the forest in my small garden bed?

Not wanting to take this thread sideways but where can I post questions about soil building or soil amending for growing vegetables? I don't see a forum dedicated to soil building.
Actually the quote by gixx is a bit off. Whether man's "grubby little hands" are in it or not, all forest composted soil is NOT equal.

The soil in the Pacific Northwest is very moldy, mossy, clumpy, rich, brown, and full of decay, but it is in reality very poor soil as compared to the soil in a natural grassland (Kansas/Iowa?South Dakota). It may look great, but it supports a very distinct ecology that is NOT your garden veggies. If it were, it would produce far more shrubs and deciduous trees as opposed to furs and cedars.

Some soil, despite it's absence from man's effects and despite it's appearence and apparent composting conditions, is not all prime.

The beauty of using multiple greens and browns is the ability to provide a very diverse micro biology and breakdown.

My $.02

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Applestar,
I have thought about adding a second bin to use while the first one is cooking. I haven't decided if I want to make it a tumbler like the first one or just roll it on the ground.

I'll create a new post here about soil building or amending.

Thanks!




Halfway,
That was my thinking myself but it sure does look and smell good! LOL!
For my area it would grow pine trees really good with a few oak thrown in for good measure. :)

Thanks!

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Halfway
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scarecrow...and it feels like walking on a sponge as well!!!

JordanRHughes
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I just wanted to say thanks for the posts.... :D

sceleste54
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I found your posting very helpful and easy to follow..
thanks EG !

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engineeredgarden
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I'm glad that it was useful information to some - that was the intention. :-)

*For the record, I have 6 pallet bins, and tried the composting in stages thing, move one pile to the next, etc. I always end up just filling all 6 with ingredients, mainly becuase of greed, I guess...hehe.

EG

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tomf
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I have what I call my learning bin working and with what I have read in the compost forum it is doing all the things talked about. I put non-meat kitchen waste, lawn trimmings pine, sawdust and some paper waste. I think the compost bin I got is about 80 gallons, this will not produce nearly enough compost for my needs. I am thinking of going bigger and getting manure, lawn clippings that I have tons of and sawdust. What I want is one that I can scoop it up with the tractor bucket to turn it and put on the garden. I see some very large compost piles but I read here there is an optimum size, so I am not sure how big I can make it.
Any and all advice welcome, please.

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rainbowgardener
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Here's a couple threads we had about large scale composting:

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=127597&highlight=scale+compost#127597

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1416508&highlight=scale+compost#141650

Not that I've ever done large scale composting, but from what I've read, there's an optimum height and width, but you can make a row as long as you want. I think if you just make the pile bigger (I.e. higher and wider), the stuff on the outside gets too far from the action in the middle and maybe everything gets kind of compacted. You would need to turn more often to make up for all that.

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tomf
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Thank you Rainbow I read through the links, I like what gixxerific said as I can get truck loads of tree trimmings to add to it.

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tomf
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I read just about every thing written in the compost forum and I have been putting all kinds of stuff in the bin. I felt it was uncool to send stuff to the dump or into the septic tank via the garbage disposal that I can recycle into some thing I can make my soil better with.
At first I had to many greens but I think thanks to the tips here I have the right combination of carbon to nitrogen. I think I may be able to manage it on a larger scale.

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engineeredgarden wrote:As is common with most first-time composters, my first year of backyard composting was a complete disaster. I tried it in a barrel that was rolled around on the ground every week or so, and all I ended up with was a gooey mess inside. The greatest lessons in life are learned from failures, but it's important to not give up when efforts fall short of success. With a few years of frustrating composting cycles now under my belt, I can proudly say that I can compost - and do it pretty well.

Now, I'd like to share what I have learned about the process with anyone composting for the first time.

Terms frequently used in composting are:

Browns - This is simply a source of carbon, and can be from all kinds of sources - paper, straw, wood, fallen leaves, etc.

Greens - This is simply a source of nitrogen, and can be from all kinds of sources, too - grass clippings, UCG's, vegetable and fruit scraps, dry dog food, dry molasses, and alfalfa meal or pellets, etc.

UCG's - Used coffee grounds


The reading material concerning composting education is confusing to most, and even I had a difficult time understanding what it all meant. I mean, it seems that everyone has their own idea on how to do it, and most even get way too technical when discussing the subject. It isn't rocket science.....We are simply trying our best to duplicate what naturally happens in nature - but at a much more accelerated rate.

Fact: A pile that has a C:N ratio of 30:1 is best. This is supported by every agricultural institution, but what does it mean?

It simply means that if you construct a pile that has ingredients that (combined) measures 30 parts carbon and 1 part nitrogen, it has the ideal proportions of browns and greens for decomposition to take place.

How does a person achieve this combination?
Everything has a C:N value, and here are some values of ingredients....

Leaves (fallen, brown in color) - 50:1
Paper - 400:1
Grass clippings - 15:1
Fruit scraps - 35:1
Vegetable scraps - 20:1
UCG's - 20:1

*Mix ingredients by volume, not weight.....

If you combine equal parts of leaves and grass clippings, the overall C:N ratio would be 32:1

- leaves and UCG's, the overall C:N ratio would be 35:1

- paper and grass clippings, the overall C:N ratio would be 207:1

If paper is your only resource of browns, you will need to add TONS of greens to achieve an overall mixture of 30:1. It would be something like -

1 part paper, 20 parts grass clippings - for an overall combined C:N ratio of 33:1
*Needless to say, paper is not a good choice of browns......

Chop, shred, or reduce the size of any ingredient added to the pile, because this gives the microbes more surface area to work with, and also increases boimass compression.

Build a pile that is between 3' x 3' x 3' and 4' x 4' x 4', because as the core temperature of the pile heats up, it needs an insulator to keep the heat from dissipating into the atmosphere. The outer crust of the pile serves this purpose......Also, a pile larger than 4' x 4' x 4' won't let air reach the microbes in the center. No air in the center means you'll be using the anaerobic microbes for decomposition - which is slow, stinky, and not desirable at all. Instead, you want the pile to be no bigger than 4ft cubed, so that oxygen can reach the core, which is called aerobic composting. Aerobic microbes work very efficiently, and produce lots of heat as the greens and browns are broken down. So, that's the reason why size of pile matters............

Also, the pile has to be watered occasionally - but don't over do it....I use rainwater for mine, because municipal water will kill the microbes that do all the work for you. A healthy population of microbes is the key to rapid decompostion of a compost pile, and it's important to keep them fed and watered.

Once the ingredients and moisture level are correct, the pile will heat up. I like for mine to be between 130 and 150 degrees, and use a compost thermometer to measure the internal core temperature at least once per week. Once the temp falls below 110 degrees, turn the pile and add some water. If you have some greens to add, throw them in there too. Things will heat back up again in a day or two. If the temperature is between 130-150, don't disturb it - let the microbes do their thing....

Obviously, the best time to compost is during warm weather, but it's not always possible to have enough greens/browns on hand to do this at this time of year. I've found it best to accumulate bagged leaves in the fall, then build a new pile as grass clippings become available during warm weather. Doing the opposite is not suggested, because the grass clippings stored in bags clumps really bad, and must be broken up throughout the entire composting cycle. For the record, it takes ALOT of leaves to amount to anything.

I hope this post was helpful to anyone that takes the time to read it.

EG
Thanks a bunch...I did know about the coffee beans though--I thought they attracted rats?

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Sage Hermit
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8) I am a noob

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tomf
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Will my compost keep working in the winter?

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engineeredgarden
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Yes, but at a much slower rate. Just keep feeding it with nitrogen sources, add water, and keep it turned, and it will continue to work. I compost year-round - although during warm weather is much faster than cold.

EG

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rainbowgardener
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Depends on your winter. Here my compost pile freezes solid for at least all of January and isn't doing anything. But it's ok. I keep adding stuff to it all winter, kitchen scraps covered with fall leaves, and the added stuff freezes too. But as soon as it warms up it all starts working again.

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tomf
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We do not get but a week or so of a hard freeze at my home in Oregon and it most likely will not freeze the pile. Our weather has much to do with elevation and the weatherman talks about how low the snow level is. I am at 1200’ so I get more snow than Portland but most of the time the snow level is at 3000’ or more. Mt. Hood gets 200â€

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tomf
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I put my coffee grounds in the compost, will the finished compost keep my plants up at night?

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tomf
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Ok that one was silly. :oops: :wink: :lol:

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rainbowgardener
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Yup! :) :D

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engineeredgarden
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Tom - hehe.....UCG'S are probably my favorite thing to add, because it smells really good!

EG

Solucion
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I give up. Too complicated.

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Halfway
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Solucion wrote:I give up. Too complicated.
:shock:



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