WOO HOO! IT'S WORKING!

[Garden Gal]

I checked my pile for the first time since starting it two weeks ago, and lo and behold!!! The bottom is a dark and crumbly already! It's not reaaaal hot because we've had some rain, and my bin is not full, BUT I was amazed at just how much has already decomposed and could be used for tea already!!! YIPPIE! Thanks to all of you here for the great tips, many of which I am incorporating in my composting and gardening routines.

[rot]

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yeah

It's just nice when you get it to work isn't it?
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[Garden Gal]

it really is nice Rot. I turned it today after reading more about turning being helpful. I also added some browns.

Read a lot about the coffee grounds. We save ours, but have not gone in search of. We brew coffee daily, sometimes a couple of pots, all of which goes in. Do I really need more??? I'm struggling finding enough brown. (don't mean to start a UCG conversation here. Just wondering.

[rot]

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Used coffee grounds are green. They have nitrogen. They're not really acidic either. Starbucks, which doesn't curdle my stomach like other coffees do (I'm actually a tea drinker), is actually rather neutral.

The problem with used coffee grounds is their fine grain has a smothering effect. I'm betting you don't need to seek out more if you're already rich in greens.

Coffee filters are browns and break down nicely.

to sense
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[rot]

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The following link is a good list of greens. Compare grass C/N values of grass clippings, about as green as you're going to easily get with say sawdust, about as brown as it gets. Most other stuff will fall between those two extremes.

to sense

https://compost.css.cornell.edu/OnFarmHandbook/apa.taba1.html
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[vermontkingdom]

Thanks Rot. That's a wonderful list to have handy.

[Garden Gal]

WOW! Stuff you'd never even think about! I saw someone post that peat moss is not environmentally friendly. Why is that? Or is there a thread on that subject already?

[rainbowgardener]

Peat moss is a not very renewable resource (takes a LONG time to make any more) that is mined.

"The process involves digging a network of drainage ditches and settling basins so that the water drains away from the wetland and the bog begins to dry out and die. Once that happens, all surface vegetation is removed and the deposit is ready for peat production ... Wetland loss due to agriculture and development is a major biodiversity problem worldwide, threatening wildlife habitat. But peat bogs have their own special ecosystem issues and threats. They are home to rare wildlife, including untold numbers of highly specialized native plants, many of which may be endangered and found only in the peat bog. [and of course all that disappears when the bog is killed to harvest the peat]

Also ... Perhaps the biggest contribution of peat bogs to a healthy environment is as “global coolers,â€

[stella1751]

I use peat moss. I realize it is irresponsible, especially in light of the information re: harvesting techniques provided in Rainbow's article. I justify the use for several reasons: 1) Nothing beats peat moss for conditioning the soil, for lightening my loam/clay soil; 2) There are no alternatives to peat moss available in my area, no coir, no ligma peat; 3) New Zealand's non-intrusive harvesting methods may well pave the way for a new era of Canadian Peat Moss collection; and 4) I am addicted to peat moss.

I think we all make choices in our battle to befriend the environment. While most of us in this thread are determined to minimize our carbon footprint, we all go at it in our own way. In other words, we all have our guilty pleasures, be it the plastic pots we use as containers, the rubber hoses we use to water our plants, or the fuel we consume to drive to the nursery, where we purchase plants in plastic containers, plants likely started in a peat-moss mixture.

Peat moss is my guilty pleasure. I can't give it up. The mere thought of going a season without it gives me the shakes. I don't buy bottled water, though, and I work out of my home, consuming considerably less than my citizen's share of fossil fuels. I keep the temperature in my house cool in the winter, and I only turn on the swamp cooler when one of my old dogs is demonstrating respiratory discomfort at the end of a hot summer day. Yesterday, I spent hours weeding the back yard, pulling and hacking and yanking, rather than spray with herbicide.

I can only do so much. I'm human, for crying out loud, with all the weaknesses of the species. I can't do it.

I can't give up my peat moss

[Halfway]

Very well written Stella. Sometimes those embracing "green" as a religion become very intolerent. Not saying that is true of members of this forum, but I know militant eco warriors who are worse than the spanish inquisition and raw hypocrites.

"To each his own" are good words to live by.

I use peat as well. I do wonder how to keep it wet.??????

Any tips on keeping it wet as I have seen water race completely through a ten gallon bucket full of dry MG or peat/vermiculite/compost mix.

Thanks!

[Garden Gal]

Very interesting regarding the pros and cons of peat moss. I'm new to the stuff myself. I put tons of it in my lasagna garden. Well not tons, but in a 24 inch thick garden, every other layer was peat moss. Since this is my first LG I'm not sure how things will turn out. But right now, my veggies are four times the size and coloring is more intense than my two fellow gardeners who share gardening stories and who visit my garden and vice versa. My tomato plants are lush and filled with flowers, so are my eggplant, cucumber and pepper plants. Everything seems to be thriving. My question is will all those flowers turn into fruit at some point!!

I have mushrooms every morning that die by the end of the day, and new ones the next day. No sign of worms yet. I keep fighting the urge to throw some in to stir things up a bit, but Toil told me I don't need to. So . . . I wait. Would love to add some praying mantis. Can't seem to find them here in Silver Spring area. If anyone knows where I can get some, I need it! Got little friends eating my Collards. I saw ONE lady bug the other day. I blessed her to be fruitful and multiply. LOL

[stella1751]

Very well written Stella. Sometimes those embracing "green" as a religion become very intolerent. Not saying that is true of members of this forum, but I know militant eco warriors who are worse than the spanish inquisition and raw hypocrites.

"To each his own" are good words to live by.

I use peat as well. I do wonder how to keep it wet.??????

Any tips on keeping it wet as I have seen water race completely through a ten gallon bucket full of dry MG or peat/vermiculite/compost mix.

Thanks!

The folks at Helpful Gardener keep me honest. I like their emphasis on organic gardening as it relates to the environment. Since joining THG, I think twice before turning to chemicals, asking myself whether the chemical is really necessary.

I also like the way most of them argue. They just put their arguments out there, firmly and generally backed by research, as did Rainbow, without making the recipient feel he or she is under personal attack. There's an odd mean remark, but never from a moderator, which is very nice. Best of all, they will accept a counter argument without going into a tizzy about it. Worst of all, because Rainbow presented her argument fairly and professionally, I will be cringing each time I use peat moss this year

Which doesn't mean I plan to stop using it. Yeah, I feel guilty about using peat moss, but it can't be beat for conditioning the soil or starting small seeds that might wash away in a torrential rain. One year, the year of the great flood in this area, I put a thin layer of peat moss on some newly planted radish seeds. I can't remember how many inches of precip we got in one hour of rain, but it was incredible for an area known for its dry climate, and cars were floating down the street. I'll swear that when those radishes came up, not a seed had been lost.

I'm not sure what you mean by keeping it wet, though. Once it's mixed with the soil, it seems to retain the soil's moisture. A gentle spray on the stuff used to mulch generally wets it down good, too. I leave the unused stuff in the bag, and if there are no tears in the bag, the peat moss retains its moisture for, like, forever. If it does dry out, I don't worry. When I finally use it, I moisten it then.

Ah. Another vermiculite user! I used it for the first time last year and still have half my big bag left. I don't know whether or not it made a big difference in my garden; I also started using compost tea for the first time last year, and all my plants were giddy as a 16-year-old on a date with a super-model.

How do you use your vermiculite? I've just been mixing it in the soil. Do you have any tips?

[Halfway]

Thanks Stella...and I agree to the professionalism and maturity of arguments made on this site.

On my use of vermiculite...I used it as a portion of "Mel's mix" as noted in Square Foot Gardening. I recall from my high school horticulture class we used vermiculite as a germinating medium and it worked very well. It seems to have the desired effect in my raised beds as well.

Time will tell and I am curious to see the mix after a year.

I notice if peat gets dry, water runs off it like a dry sponge. I notice MG potting soil works the same way if it is not already moist. I usually moisten an entire batch before potting, but the problem is when it drys while potted and the water looks for a channel to run through.

I agree that misting to saturate the surface works, and at this time is my only real solution.

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks for the kind words. I care passionately about the environment and environmental issues. But my task here is to educate, not to tell people what to do and certainly not to judge anyone.

Garden Gal ASKED why someone would consider peat moss not environmentally friendly, so I answered. I try to give just the facts and to be very data based.

If people think twice about what they are doing and understand that all our actions have consequences in the world, that's all I can ask. As far as what it means to try to live responsibly in a world with nearly 7 billion people where the environment is coming apart at the seams, each of us has to figure that out for ourselves and no one is perfect. We are all just muddling along trying to figure it out and do the best we can.

I have a big bag of peat moss sitting in my yard as we speak. But I bought it last year and it is still half full. I try to use it as little as I can. Once it is gone, I may look around and try to find out where to get coconut coir and how expensive is it. I also do use MG potting soil with peat in it and plastic pots for starting seeds. But I figure starting all those plants from seeds mitigates other environmental effects and the plastic pots I reuse year after year. Like I said, just trying with everyone else to figure out what is the best I can do to try to reduce my carbon footprint/ fossil fuel usage/ negative impact on Mother Earth and do something positive here and there.

[Halfway]

Agreed RG. On the coconut coir, I have some pots made of it that have been in a compost heap for over a year. In fact, when I sift finished compost, I have to pull those off to the side. I throw them in with each new pile and despite high heat and quick decomposition, those pots will not break down quickly!!!