Hey There-
You all were so helpful with my last issue, I was hoping I could get some feedback regarding a question about my worm bins. I was reading about how fast that Night Crawlers can process garbage, and I was wondering if I could safely add them to my existing, established (1+ years and 6 mos) worm bins? Would that be bad for the Red Wigglers? Can they be hurt by giant worms(I know that's a dumb question, but it's genuine) I wouldn't want to do something that would hurt them. They are good to us, so at least we can return the favor by keeping them in a favorable environment.
Has anyone kept Night Crawler only bins? What is the difference between African and Euro Night Crawlers?
Do you know the scientific name of the worms "the guy in CA" is selling?
If it's Lumbricus terrestris, Mary Appelhof (author of Worms Eat My Garbage) was careful to describe them as burrow-dwellers who need 50 deg. F or cooler earth, very stable, to live in. L. terrestris do not appreciate their burrows being disturbed by people burying food (even for the worms!) nearby. Their temperature tolerance is much narrower than that of Eisenia foetida (red worms, litter-dwellers most often used for composting worms).
The 2nd edition of her book was released in 1997, and I think it's just been constantly reprinted since then.
She doesn't mention either "European" or "African" nightcrawlers. She simply refers to nightcrawlers. Here's a short passage from p. 42:
"Nightcrawlers are not suitable worms for the type of home vermicomposting system described here. I once placed 80 nightcrawlers in my worm bin along with red worms already there. Two months later, I found only one live nightcrawler, and it was immature."
Then she discusses temperature and soil requirements for nightcrawlers.
Maybe you can read a copy of her book at the library and get the living requirements for nightcrawlers from her...she has (well, had
) no vested interest in separating you from your $.
Please be sure to hang around in between times; there have been LOTS of discussions about vermicomposting since you were last here! We (well, I) missed you!
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
If it's Lumbricus terrestris, Mary Appelhof (author of Worms Eat My Garbage) was careful to describe them as burrow-dwellers who need 50 deg. F or cooler earth, very stable, to live in. L. terrestris do not appreciate their burrows being disturbed by people burying food (even for the worms!) nearby. Their temperature tolerance is much narrower than that of Eisenia foetida (red worms, litter-dwellers most often used for composting worms).
The 2nd edition of her book was released in 1997, and I think it's just been constantly reprinted since then.
She doesn't mention either "European" or "African" nightcrawlers. She simply refers to nightcrawlers. Here's a short passage from p. 42:
"Nightcrawlers are not suitable worms for the type of home vermicomposting system described here. I once placed 80 nightcrawlers in my worm bin along with red worms already there. Two months later, I found only one live nightcrawler, and it was immature."
Then she discusses temperature and soil requirements for nightcrawlers.
Maybe you can read a copy of her book at the library and get the living requirements for nightcrawlers from her...she has (well, had
) no vested interest in separating you from your $.Please be sure to hang around in between times; there have been LOTS of discussions about vermicomposting since you were last here! We (well, I) missed you!
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
oh sorry, I forgot, to mention the criticism I heard of euros is they are slow. Also apparently they always come with reds. But they are supposedly able to occupy a lower spot in the bin to work in tandem. Prized for fishing I think.
African nightcrawlers are supposed to make easy to collect castings and can endure heat. They are big.
African nightcrawlers are supposed to make easy to collect castings and can endure heat. They are big.
Hey Cynthia-
I have a horrible semester going on right now. Loads of work, zero free time, so I don't get in here too much. Do you have any experience growing poppies? My wife wanted me to try my hand at growing more flowers, so I picked poppies since the varieties of flowers are so varied and cool, and my orchids take up a bit of time so I wanted something low maintenence. If you walked down Schmidt, you could probably see my failing poppy experiment right now...So I planted a bunch of different papaver somniferom varieties, they have all grown in containers, the ones in the ground did nothing-maybe birds got them all. The container plants are 2-3 feet tall, and just not blooming at all. About a week ago, the leaves started turning yellow, and I have been trimming them off. Do you know what I should do next?
Also, thanks for the worm advice. I think I may try to add in some Africans based on Toil's info. The worst thing that happens is it doesn't work. I was worried they could eat the red worms or something. Glad that is not the case.
I have a horrible semester going on right now. Loads of work, zero free time, so I don't get in here too much. Do you have any experience growing poppies? My wife wanted me to try my hand at growing more flowers, so I picked poppies since the varieties of flowers are so varied and cool, and my orchids take up a bit of time so I wanted something low maintenence. If you walked down Schmidt, you could probably see my failing poppy experiment right now...So I planted a bunch of different papaver somniferom varieties, they have all grown in containers, the ones in the ground did nothing-maybe birds got them all. The container plants are 2-3 feet tall, and just not blooming at all. About a week ago, the leaves started turning yellow, and I have been trimming them off. Do you know what I should do next?
Also, thanks for the worm advice. I think I may try to add in some Africans based on Toil's info. The worst thing that happens is it doesn't work. I was worried they could eat the red worms or something. Glad that is not the case.
I know this thread is just a tad dated. But, I'd like to weigh in!
Contrary to what many may say, Lumbricus terrestris (aka, Canadian Nightcrawler... aka, North American Nightcrawler) can be kept in containers in captivity! However... their environmental and food requirements for success are quite different from most other worms that are "farmed." One of the biggest differences is the fact that they must be kept cool! Warm temperatures are deadly to them! For that reason alone (in addition to a host of others), it is not "reasonable" to keep them in containers... though it is possible!
I personally keep three types of worms for composting and for fishing. They are Eisenia fetida (foetida) (aka, EF, Redworm, Red Wiggler, Composting Worm, Manure Worm, Brandling Worm, and Tiger Worm), Eisenia hortensis (Dendrobaena veneta) (aka, EH, Belgian Nightcrawler, European Nightcrawler, Euros), and Eudrilus eugeniae (aka, EE, African Nightcrawler, Giant Nightcrawler).
All of these can be successfully kept in bins in captivity. And, all of these are excellent composting worms and producers of high quality vermicompost! However, each one is a bit different. Each one has their own personal requirements. And, each one has its positives. And, each one has its negatives.
Redworms (Eisenia fetida) are the kings of the composting worms... hands down... and, bar none!!
Positive: Once established, one pound of them can easily digest one pound of food... in one day!! Once established and mature, the speed with which they multiply is unmatched by rabbits, rats, mice, and possibly even cockroaches!! They require little maintenance. As long as conditions are correct in their bin, they are good about staying put... not wandering or crawling like Nightcrawlers. And, they don't mind being handled by humans!
Negative: The only negative thing that I can think of concerning Redworms is the fact that they are so small that they are not my choice for fishing! It takes to many of them to bait a single hook... especially when fishing for Catfish!!
European Nightcrawlers (Eisenia hortensis) are second in choice for a composting worm only to Redworms. Euros are oversized cousins of Redworms. And, they too make an excellent choice for a composting worm.
Positive: Once established, their appetite is as voracious as that of the Redworm! They produce beautiful vermicompost. They don't mind being handled by humans. They are smaller than Canadian Nightcrawlers and African Nightcrawlers. But, given the room and food to grow, they get huge! Given their size, ability to withstand heat or cold, and ability to live longer than any other worm used to fish in brackish saltwater, they are an excellent choice for a fishing worm... fish love them!! Because of this, they are my favorite composting worm!!
Negative: They multiply slower than Redworms. But, they grow so big, so quickly that the only time I've noticed the difference is when I've done a worm by worm head count for a given time. As I said above... these guys have a great appetite!! Being a Nightcrawler, they do have a propensity to crawl; albeit a low propensity. I remedy this problem with a nightlight and a lid on the Euros bin! I just make sure to check the underside of the lid for any individuals who are "stretching their legs!"
African Nightcrawlers (Eudrilus eugeniae) are a great composting worm and an excellent fishing worm!! However, they should be chosen only after careful consideration of their needs and habits! Of the three composting worms that I have, these make the most beautiful vermicompost... and, make it quick!! But, they are also the most trouble to keep.
Positive: Once established, these guys have one heck of an appetite!! As already stated, mine make the most beautiful compost of all my worms. Given the room, plenty of food, and proper conditions, they grow to be massive in size... even larger than Canadian Nightcrawlers! Africans the size of a first grader's pencil have been recorded! They withstand heat; as well as temperatures all the way down to 45* F. But, they need temps above 70* F to breed. Their cocoons hatch much faster than Redworms or Euros... only 13 to 27 days under ideal conditions!!
Negative: Africans are slow to build up. And, they are not nearly as long lived as other composting worms. They have a very strong propensity to crawl... especially during thunderstorms! A nightlight or any other kind of light will not even slow them down!! A lid (the snap in place kind) over the bin is seen simply as an obstacle to be easily skirted! Without the right kind of containment, a mass exodus is inevitable!! The only way I've found to make them stay where I put them is to use a container without holes or cracks in the bottom or sides of it, a lid over it, and a worm electric fence in place! Electric fence
Yes, an electric fence... not the kind you'd use for cows, sheep, goats, dogs, or such... but, it's still an electric fence!! After all, it is worm farming... right?? 
Sorry for the sidetrack... on to more negative...... In order to thrive and breed well, Africans need warmer temperatures than do Redworms or Euros. After all, they are Africans! From hatching, it takes them quite a while to grow into adult, breeding sized worms. They loath being handled by humans or having their bin disturbed! When I pull the top bedding back, they disappear quicker than a small cheese pizza among 50 teenage boys!! If I dig one out and touch it with my finger, it goes into a flipping and flopping convulsive frenzy much like a fish that was just dropped onto 150* F asphalt!!
So, you might be asking why I would keep a composting worm that is such a pain in the butt to keep! I understand completely!!
As I already said, I like to fish. I love to fish for Catfish. Africans get massive in size! And, I love the way they catch Catfish!!! For all I know, as big as these guys get... they may just club a fish in the head, hook him, and give the line a few hard jerks!!!
I don't know! I just know that when it comes to catching Catfish, they "Gitt'er Done!! So, I put up with them. I guess you might say that in the end... I get my revenge!! 
Some excellent information about these and a few other worm species [url=https://mypeoplepc.com/members/arbra/bbb/id17.html]here[/url] and [url=https://mypeoplepc.com/members/arbra/bbb/id14.html]here[/url]. Though it is located at the Trinity Ranch website, the information is written by Kelly Slocum... a Vermiculture Specialist in Clark County, Vancouver, WA. Here's some information about Kelly that I copied from [url]https://www.vermico.com/seminar.htm[/url]:
[quote="https://www.vermico.com/seminar.htm"]Kelly Slocum is a Vermiculture Specialist in Clark County, Vancouver, WA and former Associate Editor of Worm Digest. Through her contributions to Worm Digest, Slocum has added to the depth and interest of this popular journal. Kelly has had years of experience as an educator in WSU’s Master Gardener/Master Composter program, is a frequent contributor to the Internet’s Vermicomposting Forum, and brings an infectious enthusiasm to the subject of earthworms and their place in all types of vermicomposting systems. Her seminar presentations consistently receive the highest reviews from attendees as she brings to life the subjects of the biology and ecology of earthworms, soil creatures, and worm bin troubleshooting. Continually searching, experimenting, and probing deeper in the world of earthworm science and practice, Kelly is our indefatigable “go-toâ€
Contrary to what many may say, Lumbricus terrestris (aka, Canadian Nightcrawler... aka, North American Nightcrawler) can be kept in containers in captivity! However... their environmental and food requirements for success are quite different from most other worms that are "farmed." One of the biggest differences is the fact that they must be kept cool! Warm temperatures are deadly to them! For that reason alone (in addition to a host of others), it is not "reasonable" to keep them in containers... though it is possible!
I personally keep three types of worms for composting and for fishing. They are Eisenia fetida (foetida) (aka, EF, Redworm, Red Wiggler, Composting Worm, Manure Worm, Brandling Worm, and Tiger Worm), Eisenia hortensis (Dendrobaena veneta) (aka, EH, Belgian Nightcrawler, European Nightcrawler, Euros), and Eudrilus eugeniae (aka, EE, African Nightcrawler, Giant Nightcrawler).
All of these can be successfully kept in bins in captivity. And, all of these are excellent composting worms and producers of high quality vermicompost! However, each one is a bit different. Each one has their own personal requirements. And, each one has its positives. And, each one has its negatives.
Redworms (Eisenia fetida) are the kings of the composting worms... hands down... and, bar none!!
Positive: Once established, one pound of them can easily digest one pound of food... in one day!! Once established and mature, the speed with which they multiply is unmatched by rabbits, rats, mice, and possibly even cockroaches!! They require little maintenance. As long as conditions are correct in their bin, they are good about staying put... not wandering or crawling like Nightcrawlers. And, they don't mind being handled by humans!
Negative: The only negative thing that I can think of concerning Redworms is the fact that they are so small that they are not my choice for fishing! It takes to many of them to bait a single hook... especially when fishing for Catfish!!
European Nightcrawlers (Eisenia hortensis) are second in choice for a composting worm only to Redworms. Euros are oversized cousins of Redworms. And, they too make an excellent choice for a composting worm.
Positive: Once established, their appetite is as voracious as that of the Redworm! They produce beautiful vermicompost. They don't mind being handled by humans. They are smaller than Canadian Nightcrawlers and African Nightcrawlers. But, given the room and food to grow, they get huge! Given their size, ability to withstand heat or cold, and ability to live longer than any other worm used to fish in brackish saltwater, they are an excellent choice for a fishing worm... fish love them!! Because of this, they are my favorite composting worm!!
Negative: They multiply slower than Redworms. But, they grow so big, so quickly that the only time I've noticed the difference is when I've done a worm by worm head count for a given time. As I said above... these guys have a great appetite!! Being a Nightcrawler, they do have a propensity to crawl; albeit a low propensity. I remedy this problem with a nightlight and a lid on the Euros bin! I just make sure to check the underside of the lid for any individuals who are "stretching their legs!"
African Nightcrawlers (Eudrilus eugeniae) are a great composting worm and an excellent fishing worm!! However, they should be chosen only after careful consideration of their needs and habits! Of the three composting worms that I have, these make the most beautiful vermicompost... and, make it quick!! But, they are also the most trouble to keep.
Positive: Once established, these guys have one heck of an appetite!! As already stated, mine make the most beautiful compost of all my worms. Given the room, plenty of food, and proper conditions, they grow to be massive in size... even larger than Canadian Nightcrawlers! Africans the size of a first grader's pencil have been recorded! They withstand heat; as well as temperatures all the way down to 45* F. But, they need temps above 70* F to breed. Their cocoons hatch much faster than Redworms or Euros... only 13 to 27 days under ideal conditions!!
Negative: Africans are slow to build up. And, they are not nearly as long lived as other composting worms. They have a very strong propensity to crawl... especially during thunderstorms! A nightlight or any other kind of light will not even slow them down!! A lid (the snap in place kind) over the bin is seen simply as an obstacle to be easily skirted! Without the right kind of containment, a mass exodus is inevitable!! The only way I've found to make them stay where I put them is to use a container without holes or cracks in the bottom or sides of it, a lid over it, and a worm electric fence in place! Electric fence
Yes, an electric fence... not the kind you'd use for cows, sheep, goats, dogs, or such... but, it's still an electric fence!! After all, it is worm farming... right?? Sorry for the sidetrack... on to more negative...... In order to thrive and breed well, Africans need warmer temperatures than do Redworms or Euros. After all, they are Africans! From hatching, it takes them quite a while to grow into adult, breeding sized worms. They loath being handled by humans or having their bin disturbed! When I pull the top bedding back, they disappear quicker than a small cheese pizza among 50 teenage boys!! If I dig one out and touch it with my finger, it goes into a flipping and flopping convulsive frenzy much like a fish that was just dropped onto 150* F asphalt!!
So, you might be asking why I would keep a composting worm that is such a pain in the butt to keep! I understand completely!!
As I already said, I like to fish. I love to fish for Catfish. Africans get massive in size! And, I love the way they catch Catfish!!! For all I know, as big as these guys get... they may just club a fish in the head, hook him, and give the line a few hard jerks!!!
I don't know! I just know that when it comes to catching Catfish, they "Gitt'er Done!! So, I put up with them. I guess you might say that in the end... I get my revenge!! Some excellent information about these and a few other worm species [url=https://mypeoplepc.com/members/arbra/bbb/id17.html]here[/url] and [url=https://mypeoplepc.com/members/arbra/bbb/id14.html]here[/url]. Though it is located at the Trinity Ranch website, the information is written by Kelly Slocum... a Vermiculture Specialist in Clark County, Vancouver, WA. Here's some information about Kelly that I copied from [url]https://www.vermico.com/seminar.htm[/url]:
[quote="https://www.vermico.com/seminar.htm"]Kelly Slocum is a Vermiculture Specialist in Clark County, Vancouver, WA and former Associate Editor of Worm Digest. Through her contributions to Worm Digest, Slocum has added to the depth and interest of this popular journal. Kelly has had years of experience as an educator in WSU’s Master Gardener/Master Composter program, is a frequent contributor to the Internet’s Vermicomposting Forum, and brings an infectious enthusiasm to the subject of earthworms and their place in all types of vermicomposting systems. Her seminar presentations consistently receive the highest reviews from attendees as she brings to life the subjects of the biology and ecology of earthworms, soil creatures, and worm bin troubleshooting. Continually searching, experimenting, and probing deeper in the world of earthworm science and practice, Kelly is our indefatigable “go-toâ€