I am tired of making my own compost

[Ozark Lady]

The goats will not eat locust... nothing eats locust... I wish they would.

You hit the nail on the head. When I pull weeds, I always take them to the goat pen, and they gobble them up. I didn't even think about that. That is exactly what I do... when I cut brush, it is straight on my garden cart, when full, straight to the goats.. and only what they won't eat, goes to the compost heap. I honestly forgot about that... I do add mint, nettles and locust to the compost because goats don't eat that. But, the brambles, the basic weeds, the small trees, goats love all those. The goats have 3 acres of woods and brush to roam and eat, but when they see me in the garden, they stand at the fence and holler for treats or petting.

My brain just woke up... I cleared an entire bed, that had weeds taller than me... It went on two carts... one to the goats, and one to the leaf bin.. the leaf bin was items that I already know goats don't like. When I was done, there was alot of green in that bin, within hours, it was a handful. The wilting down, made it not much. I have never run out of leaves, if I did, it is simple to step into the woods that aren't cleared and gather a garden cart or two full, without disturbing much. I live in the forest!

I thought about the bagged up lawn stuff, but so many folks use pesticides, and herbicides and other chemicals, I am concerned about using them. I do feel that normally tree leaves are safe to pick up curbside, but I have so many that more is too many. And I did accept leaves from my daughter-in-laws dad and grandfather who live in town and are always looking for a way to get rid of lawn and leaf waste, and they don't spray. But, my son is now gardening too, so he uses them.

For instance, the power company came through last year, I was in town, and they sprayed all my weeds and saplings with herbicides, so I can't use them as goat feed, mulch, nor compost, they aren't even safe to burn... now I have to bag it up and put it into a land fil. I have made a major protest of that action! What a waste! I would rather they had just cut them and left them lay! They sprayed my elderberries, and they never get tall enough to bother the electric lines... grrrr. They sent men who knew nothing of plants... They sprayed anything and everything that was under their powerline without regard to how tall it would get, or what it was! grrr!

I rarely get to town. In fact, once a week is about my limit to going anywhere... It is great, now that I don't punch the timeclock anymore.
I can't imagine getting my hubby to stop for coffee grounds!

So, if I use manure as my green is it still 25%, even though the manure is in bedding?

[Farmer Dave]

Hi Ozark lady and all
Sounds like some good suggestions which almost rounded out my list, good point on the garden refuse including weeds, I usually think of garden refuse being the plants I clean up in the fall.

I wanted to add that you can grow your greens as in green manure or alfalfa or clover. This is a very good thing to do. In the fall or February if I don't get around to it earlier, I plant vetch and oats in my garden areas and then a month before planting I till them in. If they are too tall I cut them down and use the tops for compost and till in the bottoms.

Each summer I leave some of my beds for cover crops and plant soy beans and buckwheat. I use the cover crops to till in and for compost. I also grow alfalfa which is on a 4-5 year rotation with my vegetable beds. I cut the alfalfa and mostly feed it to our cow and horse but I also use it for compost when I need more greens. Alfalfa has a lot of nitrogen, cellulose and growth enhancing enzymes. One of the best things for compost, multch or animal feed. Not everyone has enough room or the right soil and weather conditons for alfalfa. But there are some kind of cover crops that will work for you if you have the space. I also want to add that if you don't have enough browns you can cut your greens and leave them to dry before raking them into piles and they turn into browns.

It does sound like you don't enjoy making compost in which case you can just buy it or just use manure instead. I have gone many years just using sheet composting methods for my fall crops and using manure for my beds. But the last few years I am back to composting. I don't usually have enough for everything so still use a lot of manure. I also always cover crop or use very thick sheet composting methods with lots of manure.

"Feed your soil - it feeds you"

[Ozark Lady]

Actually, other than the fact that I have animal manures, I am more of the Ruth Stout type... Sheet compost right on the beds.
But, unlike Ruth, I do remove all the mulch in the spring to let the beds dry, warm, and air out just a bit. When I don't do that, the slug population explodes and no plant is safe.

How bad are slugs here? Last summer, I was using diatomaceous earth, to get rid of them... I left the bag on my table in the garden... Next day, I had a damp bag, from the dew, and there was a huge slug in it, and several little ones, not sure if the big one had the little ones or what. But, slugs in my bug killer bag... great! Okay, I know once it is wet it is not effective at cutting up bugs... So, I increased the egg shells, I beg everyone for their egg shells... slice those little monsters up... wet or dry!
Crazy thing is: My neighbor sells strawberries commercially, in a you pick or we pick deal.. no slug issues. Grrr.

I think, like most things, if you start out overwhelmed it leaves a bad memory. So, I am going to start small, compost just a small amount, for my mushrooms!!! (Your fault guys and gals...) I am going to build one shelf into a mushroom area, and properly layer compost into it, let it heat and turn it... to grow mushrooms later. But, this will be a small area. Perhaps if I start smaller, it will work better.

You know, funny thought... I have read that compost will heat up and you can even cook with it. I believe it. Problem is... I have never, I mean never seen compost piles heat up... nor even manure piles heat. I know that it should happen. I just have never seen it happen.

[gixxerific]

Not sure if you knew this or not but DT Earth will regain it's effectivness after drying out.

[Ozark Lady]

I wondered about that Gixx. Thanks for the info. I did add the DT to my garden soil, it still contains minerals for the soil, whether wet or dry, slug infested or not... minerals are minerals.

[rainbowgardener]

My no-turn, no-manure compost pile does not usually heat up very much. But last season for awhile it was really cooking, actually gave off steam when I dug into it a little. I think the difference was two things: I had started adding more fall leaves so I had a better balance of greens and browns and it rained a lot last season, so it was staying moister. Has to stay damp to work well.

[Ozark Lady]

That could very well be right. I have never had alot of excess water so that I could use it on compost. It only got stuff that needed dumping, like mosquito wrigglers growing in something... dump on compost. Or water in things after a rain, that needed to be emptied... Yep, it got the leftovers, even in water.
I have always saved the water for the plants.

[Gary350]

How does everyone here use your compost???

I love compost but I just can't get enough of it. I have 1 compost pile that is a 5 ft circle about 3 ft deep. I filled it all summer sprinkled on some dirt and water, grass clippings, old plants, bean plants, squash plants, tomatoes, corn, etc. During summer it goes down pretty fast I just keep filling it up. When the weather finally turned cold I had it piled up 3 ft above the container now it is down about 6" below the container. About May when I plant the garden I will remove the bottom part and it won't be much maybe 2 large buckets full compacted tight in the buckets. I also had a mountain of leaves that is now only 1 ft tall those won't be completely composted until next summer.

2 buckets of compost doesn't go very far. I use it for planning seed, and herb seeds in pots. I dig flower pot size holes for tomato plants and I throw most of the good compost in the 30 holes for the tomatoes. It doesn't go far enough as far as I am concerned. I would like to have a large dump truck load of compost every year. The compost I use this summer will be complete gone next summer so I need an endless supply of compost.

I also like to till 4 or 5 large 3.8 cu ft bales of peat moss into the whole garden.

[rainbowgardener]

Well, I could usually use more compost than I have, too. But someone else also wrote in recently about not getting much compost out of their compost pile. It sounded like in common with you, they leave their compost sit a looooong time. You were filling that pile all summer, by fall you could have pulled buckets of finished compost from the bottom, probably more than you usually get in the spring. Then keep filling it through fall and winter and in spring still have more than you usually get.

If you leave it sit, it keeps on composting down and down and down.....

[The Helpful Gardener]

AS, green leaves from a tree are still pretty brown, green needles are definitely still a brown. Sourcing is more important than color. Brown grass is still pretty much a green.

I think OL and rot have hit the nail on the head with the bacterially focused inclusion of greens, and the fungally active high carbon leaves. G350 has not really had a well balancesd compost yet; it has either been pretty bacterial or really fungal. The high carbon inputs would break down quickly in a fungally based system; the veggies would hate that and go yellow. The manures would help balance that back and the veggies would improve. Bouncing back and forth...

Kitchen scraps are a great green; just me and the DW are about a gallon a week of coffee grinds, peelings, stems, tea bags, eggshells, y'know. Grass clippings when mowing starts gives me more greens and I get short on browns; I beg leaf piles off of people, much to their amusement. Shredded paper works too...

But it is always a balancing act. Bouncing back and forth isn't great; better to figure out the mix. Farmer Dave has given a pretty sound roadmap (VERY nice post, sir... )

HG

[gixxerific]

Gary are you keeping you leaf pile and green pile separate? if so you should add them together, and like HG said if you don't have the leaves shred paper. My wife asked me what I wanted for my birthday today I told her a paper shredder. I'm tired of borrowing my MIL. I have a few trash bags of shredded paper and another pile waiting to be shredded for my compost since I don't have many leaves here.

And get your neighbors leaves and grass if you don't have enough. They will probably thank you for it, and maybe laugh when you leave but your garden won't be laughing.

[applestar]

AS, green leaves from a tree are still pretty brown, green needles are definitely still a brown. Sourcing is more important than color. Brown grass is still pretty much a green.

OK, maybe it just works because I'm doing this in the summer and there are already a lot of greens from weeds and stuff, then. I did say, "tree leaves might be a bit higher in C than forb leaves" Let's just say I was too lazy to get into the specifics.

[The Helpful Gardener]

I know, believe me I do AS. Not to worry...

But I think we are on to G350's issue to be sure. Composting is more fun when you are getting it right. We can help...

HG

[Gary350]

I have about 30 trees in my yard I could fill a large dump truck 3 times with leaves. I put leaves and green kitchen scraps in the main compost but I also have a pile that is leaves only.

[gixxerific]

I have about 30 trees in my yard I could fill a large dump truck 3 times with leaves. I put leaves and green kitchen scraps in the main compost but I also have a pile that is leaves only.

What you need is a dump truck of manure and a front end loader to go big time then. Then build a large screening device. Yeah I know that may be out of reach but highly doable. I wish I cold post pics from off this forum. There is a guy I know that has a small commercial size compost pile or 3 and he is in Alaska. He really has it down to a science and works great for him.

I only wish I had your problem with all the leaves.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Just kichen scraps is probably not sufficient to do your leaves. Where can we find you some more nitrogen?

Urine would be a good, sterile source of nitrogen (urea), not to mention decent amounts of potassium and phosphate. Start saving and stop flushing (saves on water too ).

The coffee grounds suggestion is sound and it's not just Starbucks. Lot's of places need to get rid of the grounds.

Grass clippings and leaves are like carrots and peas; they just go together. Save your own, see if there are other folks in the neighborhood that don't use chems who would part with theirs. Good stuff.

Or chuck it. Just purchase from a good source (but I get the complaints about finding a good source, and it ain't easy; they often go about making their own). There are a lot of us here who do think it's worth it and would kill for your leaves. But if they are dissappearing quickly and to so little detritus, and you don't want to do this, then pile them and forget them...

If it doesn't work for you, find what does...

HG

[Gary350]

When I was young I had enough energy to rake all these leaves but not any more. I use the lawn mower in the front yard to blow all the leaves to the street and the city vacuum truck sucks them up.

I use the lawn mower in the back yard to blow all the leaves to the garden. Leaves are probably 95% air after being mulched by the lawn mower the volume gets smaller but still a lot of air. I had a pile of leaves 3 ft deep 20 ft long in the fall, now it is 1 ft deep.

My neighbor brings me all his grass clippings every Saturday. He has a riding mower with a grass catcher. I get about 40 gallons of grass clippings every weekend. I put grass, leaves, some dirt all together in my main composter. The compost goes down about 6" every week but I keep filling it up about 3 ft every week with new organic material. The stuff on the bottom looks like compost in the spring when I get ready to plant the garden. Not much good stuff there just a couple 5 gallon buckets full. I get a couple more buckets of compost about July and 2 more in Sept but that is hardly anything compaired to what I really need.

One year I used the compost too early it turned all the plants in the garden yellow. I had to feed the plants with nitrogen to fix the problem. It seems like too much work for what I get.

[rot]

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Geez. Leaves without a bunch of sticks. Don't I wish.

Yeah oodles of compost would be cool. I started out to make oodles of compost. Then the time and energy factors kicked in. Now I'm content to digest whatever I can and the resulting compost is gravy.

With that many leaves I'd be looking at just mulching with leaves. Out here in dry country I end up with a lot of avocado leaves. I let them dry out and then when they're all nice and crunchy, I crunch them through a milk crate and use the result for leaf mulch where ever the wind won't come up and blow it all away.

Starbucks tends to leave out the coffee filters in their give-away grounds. You can mulch directly with the grounds - worms dig it - and then, leaf mulch on top of that to mitigate the crusting effect.

Could be a low energy effort and save you from using so much water.

to sense
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[The Helpful Gardener]

Good thoughts, rot...

Fukuoka-sensei did a little compost for the kitchen garden, but simply returned straw to his grain fields with a little chicken poop. Anything else was too much work; too much effort with too little return.

Seems this is where Gary is; seeing too much effort with too little return. My friend Mike Nadeau, a real organic pioneer, simply fits mulching blades to his lawn tractor and retuirns those leaves right back into the lawn, Think of the mix of chopped leaves and grass as a ready made sheet compost. I think Mike drags a chain loop behind the tractor to help work them in past the crowns.

Perhaps the best method for Gary has yet to be discovered, and while the conversation here is loaded with good information, Gary is likely the best arbiter of what will work for Gary.

[Ozark Lady]

I have come to the conclusion that composting is like eating your vegetables....

Those who love them, really love them...
Those who hate them, really hate them...
And then there are those who manage to acquire a taste for them, by sampling again!

[rot]

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Yes HG good point, what works best is what works for you. Don't bend so much to make compost or whatever scheme your using but bend it to how you live and work. Make it serve you and not the other way around and you'll find it will stick. If the process isn't working, change the process.

I'll mulch leaves into the lawn when grass cycling too.

I will also rake leaves on to the grass before mowing so the mower will munch and mix the leaves and grass clippings for my bin when I don't grass cycle.

I'm just playing the game of getting the mostess organics into the ground the fastest I can with the leastess energy. Otherwise you can just call me lazy.

to sense

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[The Helpful Gardener]

I don't think there ever was a lazy man in this world. Every man has some sort of gift, and he prizes that gift beyond all others. He may be a professional billiard-player, or a Paderewski, or a poet--I don't care what it is. But whatever it is, he takes a native delight in exploiting that gift, and you will find it is difficult to beguile him away from it. Well, there are thousands of other interests occupying other men, but those interests don't appeal to the special tastes of the billiard champion or Paderewski. They are set down, therefore, as too lazy to do that or do this--to do, in short what they have no taste or inclination to do. In that sense, then I am phenomenally lazy. But when it comes to writing a book--I am not lazy. My family find it difficult to dig me out of my chair.
Mark Twain- quoted in Sydney Morning Herald, 9/17/1895

[rot]

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The older I get the smarter that Mark Twain guy gets.

thanks

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