Hey There
I'm in NorCal, in the SF Bay Area. I recently changed my compost situation (This fall) from a small pile/worm bin combo to 2 spinners and a separate worm bin. It's been about 90 days, and that is the time that supposedly I should expect a spinner to deliver a finished product in. Looking at the compost, it's very, very wet. I'm not sure what to do.
Should I be done, and use this compost? Should I add more browns and try to dry it out and keep it going a bit longer? Any and all advice much appreciated. I am enclosing pix. I tried to take some from inside the spinner itself, but unfortunately it's too dark. What I pulled out on the shovel is what the whole thing looks like.
[img]https://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/xWeaponX/Wetcompost.jpg[/img]
UGH I can't make this work, so I guess just follow the link.
I purposely performed an anaerobic composting experiment from March to August 2008.
What you have in the photograph looks exactly like what my experiment produced.
It smelled like methane. I took a whiff from the length of a pitchfork handle and it almost knocked me over. I told DH, "Whoa, talk about methanogenic! This stuff's going into the Big Box." (We have a BioStack from when we lived in Berzerkeley).
So I moved all the yuck into the BioStack, added shredded newspaper (didn't have leaves yet), coffee grounds just for the odor control, a few wood ashes from my sister-in-law, and troweled it around in the upper third of the BioStack.
I left the lower two-thirds of the BioStack intact, because I was planning on turning it in September and didn't want to set everything back to Square One.
I kept adding kitchen waste with the occasional handful of shredded newspaper from that day until Turning Day, which I think ended up being in early October.
The former anaerobic sludge had lost its horrible odor, the compost worms had found it, and the texture was changing for the better.
If you need newspaper, maybe a request on one of the local Freecycle lists will produce a bagful. If you have a paper shredder, it will give you absolutely perfect shredded newspaper for compost!
Good for introducing air into too-wet stuff if you don't have any leaves handy.
Cynthia
What you have in the photograph looks exactly like what my experiment produced.
It smelled like methane. I took a whiff from the length of a pitchfork handle and it almost knocked me over. I told DH, "Whoa, talk about methanogenic! This stuff's going into the Big Box." (We have a BioStack from when we lived in Berzerkeley).
So I moved all the yuck into the BioStack, added shredded newspaper (didn't have leaves yet), coffee grounds just for the odor control, a few wood ashes from my sister-in-law, and troweled it around in the upper third of the BioStack.
I left the lower two-thirds of the BioStack intact, because I was planning on turning it in September and didn't want to set everything back to Square One.
I kept adding kitchen waste with the occasional handful of shredded newspaper from that day until Turning Day, which I think ended up being in early October.
The former anaerobic sludge had lost its horrible odor, the compost worms had found it, and the texture was changing for the better.
If you need newspaper, maybe a request on one of the local Freecycle lists will produce a bagful. If you have a paper shredder, it will give you absolutely perfect shredded newspaper for compost!
Good for introducing air into too-wet stuff if you don't have any leaves handy.Cynthia
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rainbowgardener
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It doesn't smell like poo per se, but it doesn't smell good, either.Toil wrote:I can't smell it, but it looks like anaerobic sludge to me. Did it get compacted? Not enough browns? Browns very brittle?
Does it smell like poo or like when you pull your boot out of muck?
It's no where near that intense. It's not actually even foul smelling. But it it just super, super heavy and wet. Does that mean it's anaerobic? Also, and I'm sorry but I'm pretty new at composting, but 1) what is anaerobic composting, and 2) is that bad?Cynthia h wrote:It smelled like methane. I took a whiff from the length of a pitchfork handle and it almost knocked me over. I told DH, "Whoa, talk about methanogenic! This stuff's going into the Big Box." (We have a BioStack from when we lived in Berzerkeley).
Also, I'm sure it's not usuable, but can you use ashes from duraflame logs, too? If not, I'll just make a regular log fire tonight to make a bunch of ashes, and shred some news papers.
Also, someone asked if there are any air holes in the spinner (yea, like a tumbler) and there are 2 6 inch long vents.
And last, what would happen if I mixed this goo up with soil? Would it kill everything? I'm not going to, I'm just curious.
Aerobic < aero (Greek for air) + bios (Greek for life). Thus, aerobic things require air (oxygen) to live.
Anaerobic things live in the absence of oxygen. Note that methane is CH4; not an oxygen atom anywhere.
You may have "caught" your tumbler contents at the "wet, heavy, but not yet methanogenic" stage. If you add these contents to your soil in their current condition, the tumbler contents will make the soil very heavy. Seeds require several things for successful growth:
Sufficient warmth
Sufficient light
Sufficient, but not excessive, water (I've drowned enough seeds...)
And our old friend, oxygen.
The tender, questing roots which seeds first put forth are quite delicate and need a fairly light-textured medium in which to grow. The heavy medium which would be produced by adding your current "stuff" to native soil would not be conducive to the successful growth of seeds and might smother even the roots of transplants. The feeder root hairs of transplants also need a fairly large pore space, relatively speaking, in which to venture forth searching for nutrients and water.
If you have leaves available (I got mine by gathering them from curbside in El Cerrito, Berkeley, and Oakland; maple trees and a few elms), stir them into your mix. If not, shredded newspaper, cardboard, and other browns will help absorb the extra moisture and introduce air pockets into the mass of ingredients which are yearning to become excellent compost.
How often have you been turning your compost tumbler, BTW?
Another idea: many people who use compost tumblers also use batch processing. That is, they save up compost ingredients until they have "enough" by their own lights for an optimum load in the tumbler, then they load it up and let it "work" until the compost is done, merely turning it when needed. I'm not familiar enough with tumblers to give advice on this method, but it sounds as if it would take up extra space...
Re. Duraflame log ashes: I can't tell, from the language used by the Omni Environmental study quoted on the Duraflame website, what the characteristics of its ashes will be. I've read both the abridged version of the study and the Executive Summary of the full study (full study is over 100 pp; haven't read it). Here's what they're willing to say in the ExecSum:
"Through its manufacture of firelogs, Duraflame estimates that it annually recycles approximately 50,000 tons of byproduct fiber comprised of wood chips, sawdust, and agricultural biomass generated by agriculture and other industries. Additionally, Duraflame estimates that in 2007, it will displace another 50,000 tons of petroleum-based fuel with byproduct biomass-derived wax blends."
Although Duraflame could be making a wonderful, 100% organic product, this language is not designed to reassure the reader on that account. There's lots of wiggle room here. So all I can say is: set some aside as an experiment in a separate container. See what happens. Or perhaps you can find a study in which Duraflame Firelog residue has been composted. I haven't had time to look such up, but maybe there are some out there. :fingers crossed:
Cynthia
Anaerobic things live in the absence of oxygen. Note that methane is CH4; not an oxygen atom anywhere.
You may have "caught" your tumbler contents at the "wet, heavy, but not yet methanogenic" stage. If you add these contents to your soil in their current condition, the tumbler contents will make the soil very heavy. Seeds require several things for successful growth:
Sufficient warmth
Sufficient light
Sufficient, but not excessive, water (I've drowned enough seeds...)
And our old friend, oxygen.
The tender, questing roots which seeds first put forth are quite delicate and need a fairly light-textured medium in which to grow. The heavy medium which would be produced by adding your current "stuff" to native soil would not be conducive to the successful growth of seeds and might smother even the roots of transplants. The feeder root hairs of transplants also need a fairly large pore space, relatively speaking, in which to venture forth searching for nutrients and water.
If you have leaves available (I got mine by gathering them from curbside in El Cerrito, Berkeley, and Oakland; maple trees and a few elms), stir them into your mix. If not, shredded newspaper, cardboard, and other browns will help absorb the extra moisture and introduce air pockets into the mass of ingredients which are yearning to become excellent compost.
How often have you been turning your compost tumbler, BTW?
Another idea: many people who use compost tumblers also use batch processing. That is, they save up compost ingredients until they have "enough" by their own lights for an optimum load in the tumbler, then they load it up and let it "work" until the compost is done, merely turning it when needed. I'm not familiar enough with tumblers to give advice on this method, but it sounds as if it would take up extra space...
Re. Duraflame log ashes: I can't tell, from the language used by the Omni Environmental study quoted on the Duraflame website, what the characteristics of its ashes will be. I've read both the abridged version of the study and the Executive Summary of the full study (full study is over 100 pp; haven't read it). Here's what they're willing to say in the ExecSum:
"Through its manufacture of firelogs, Duraflame estimates that it annually recycles approximately 50,000 tons of byproduct fiber comprised of wood chips, sawdust, and agricultural biomass generated by agriculture and other industries. Additionally, Duraflame estimates that in 2007, it will displace another 50,000 tons of petroleum-based fuel with byproduct biomass-derived wax blends."
Although Duraflame could be making a wonderful, 100% organic product, this language is not designed to reassure the reader on that account. There's lots of wiggle room here. So all I can say is: set some aside as an experiment in a separate container. See what happens. Or perhaps you can find a study in which Duraflame Firelog residue has been composted. I haven't had time to look such up, but maybe there are some out there. :fingers crossed:
Cynthia
Sounds like a good idea!cynthia_h wrote:Aerobic < aero (Greek for air) + bios (Greek for life). Thus, aerobic things require air (oxygen) to live.
Anaerobic things live in the absence of oxygen. Note that methane is CH4; not an oxygen atom anywhere.
You may have "caught" your tumbler contents at the "wet, heavy, but not yet methanogenic" stage. If you add these contents to your soil in their current condition, the tumbler contents will make the soil very heavy. Seeds require several things for successful growth:
Sufficient warmth
Sufficient light
Sufficient, but not excessive, water (I've drowned enough seeds...)
And our old friend, oxygen.
The tender, questing roots which seeds first put forth are quite delicate and need a fairly light-textured medium in which to grow. The heavy medium which would be produced by adding your current "stuff" to native soil would not be conducive to the successful growth of seeds and might smother even the roots of transplants. The feeder root hairs of transplants also need a fairly large pore space, relatively speaking, in which to venture forth searching for nutrients and water.
If you have leaves available (I got mine by gathering them from curbside in El Cerrito, Berkeley, and Oakland; maple trees and a few elms),
Because we live in a development, the HOA has a gardener that comes weekly and takes lots of stuff I want, like leaves and grass clippings. I can definitely liberate curbside leaves.
How often have you been turning your compost tumbler, BTW?
Daily, for the past few days, but I was out of town for 20 days prior to last week, and it was just sitting in that time. I figured it would be fine while I was gone. I poured some RINGER'S accelerator in there before I left, in the event that it got too cold out, I figured that the compost accelerator would keep things heated up. Maybe that was a bad idea.
Another idea: many people who use compost tumblers also use batch processing. That is, they save up compost ingredients until they have "enough" by their own lights for an optimum load in the tumbler, then they load it up and let it "work" until the compost is done, merely turning it when needed. I'm not familiar enough with tumblers to give advice on this method, but it sounds as if it would take up extra space...
This is why I got 2, so I can have one batch going while another is building up...But it looks like I may end up a bit behind on that.
Yeah, I wasn't too assured by reading the labeled ingredients, so I started a fire the old fashioned way. My wife was happy when she got home and found a fire going, and I hope that the ashes combined with some newspaper will be helpful to tame the wet mass out back. I'll add the ashes and newspaper tomorrow.Although Duraflame could be making a wonderful, 100% organic product, this language is not designed to reassure the reader on that account. There's lots of wiggle room here.
Cynthia
That sounds so crazy! I'm heading over there now.Toil: check the anaerobic thread and ask away. it's kinda like pickling. well, it is pickling.
So I was hoping I would have some compost ready for spring when I get my vegetables started this year . Do you think that can happen?
1) Glad to hear about the old-fashioned fire!Logan wrote:Yeah, I wasn't too assured by reading the labeled ingredients, so I started a fire the old fashioned way. My wife was happy when she got home and found a fire going, and I hope that the ashes combined with some newspaper will be helpful to tame the wet mass out back. I'll add the ashes and newspaper tomorrow.Although Duraflame could be making a wonderful, 100% organic product, this language is not designed to reassure the reader on that account. There's lots of wiggle room here.
Cynthia
So I was hoping I would have some compost ready for spring when I get my vegetables started this year . Do you think that can happen?
Ashes from one night's fire + shredded newspapers should be great!2) You can *definitely* have compost by April, maybe late March even. Although the makers of compost tumblers, bins, boxes, etc. all claim "Two weeks!" or whatever, discussions here at THG by real-world gardeners with real-world jobs (or not...) and real-world circumstances lead me to believe that three months is a more reasonable time line. You're on a semi-repair mission, but a lot of the decomposition has already occurred. You should have some excellent compost by the time the weather warms up for real around Easter/tax time (which has always seemed like some surreal combination to me
).Cynthia
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rot
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The longer you add to your compost spinner, tumbler, bin, thing, the longer it will take to all break down.
Your soggy mess appears to have too much moisture and not enough air. Cut back on the moisture and add air.
I've heard some tumblers don't let enough air in. The few tumblers I've looked at don't look like they let all that much air in.
Keep turning and don't add moisture for a while. Personally, I would find a dry place to let it sit and cure for a while.
If the moisture/air problem persists in subsequent batches, consider mixing in broken up sticks or maybe more like twigs to keep things from clumping up. Whether grass clippings or shredded paper, I find once they start clumping up the process slows down quite a bit. It's helpful to get the right mix of greens and browns and then to blend the ingredients. You mentioned you're new to composting so review that business about mixing browns and greens otherwise known as carbons and nitrogens or dry woody stuff versus wet green stuff.
Good basic easy to follow info here. I go back to it from time to time just to remind myself of various things as I become complacent.
https://www.compostinfo.com/
Questions I might ask would include what went into the bin and how much in relation to the different ingredients. I also wonder how much water was added. Was it out in the rain or something?
More air. Less moisture. Break it up as much as you can. You can add stuff as mentioned previously but it will push your schedule back.
Not a major disaster. It'll just take a little longer. Next time will be better.
to sense
..
The longer you add to your compost spinner, tumbler, bin, thing, the longer it will take to all break down.
Your soggy mess appears to have too much moisture and not enough air. Cut back on the moisture and add air.
I've heard some tumblers don't let enough air in. The few tumblers I've looked at don't look like they let all that much air in.
Keep turning and don't add moisture for a while. Personally, I would find a dry place to let it sit and cure for a while.
If the moisture/air problem persists in subsequent batches, consider mixing in broken up sticks or maybe more like twigs to keep things from clumping up. Whether grass clippings or shredded paper, I find once they start clumping up the process slows down quite a bit. It's helpful to get the right mix of greens and browns and then to blend the ingredients. You mentioned you're new to composting so review that business about mixing browns and greens otherwise known as carbons and nitrogens or dry woody stuff versus wet green stuff.
Good basic easy to follow info here. I go back to it from time to time just to remind myself of various things as I become complacent.
https://www.compostinfo.com/
Questions I might ask would include what went into the bin and how much in relation to the different ingredients. I also wonder how much water was added. Was it out in the rain or something?
More air. Less moisture. Break it up as much as you can. You can add stuff as mentioned previously but it will push your schedule back.
Not a major disaster. It'll just take a little longer. Next time will be better.
to sense
..