Dirt tends to be something that people do not want, such as what gets tracked into your house, or if located outside in your garden, it is not suitable for growing plants or turf.
Soil is composed of different components, the amount of which is dependent on your location, including sand, silt, clay, and organic matter. Soil is considered a growing medium for plants and turf. It can be naturally existing or mixed and created.
Hope this helps!
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MotherGardener
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The Helpful Gardener
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Great discussion...
Gixx said "I said before I didn't understand why "Organics" were so expensive, but I knew it was the "trendy" point of it. "
I think it is more a function of the usual economic engines than simply fadism. The fact that air is free has made chemical fertilizers cheap. Organic fertilizers are no where near as cheap, so organics is more expensive there. One guy in a helicopter can't organically treat an orchard (YET! but my friend Chandrappa told me they are looking at aerial tea applications, so there is hope), so more expense. And here's the real killer; because it is more expensive, fewer people do it, or do it on a smaller scale so smaller production runs means more operating expense. This is called economies of scale, and THAT, my friends, is why organics is more expensive...
But we have a few things in our favor. First, oil is dissappearing before our very eyes. Peak global production was at least two years back, four if you talk to the Saudis, exploration is costing more and producing less, and global demand is still rising while supply shrinks. Economics 101, kids; what happens in that scenario?
So as oil gets more expensive, so does fertilizer (burning a LOT of oil is how you make fertilizer). Soon the economies of scale will shift of necessity, so we have that going for us...
Secondly, people are waking up to the damage that chemical fertilization does to water and soil, and they are shifting despite the price. This too will shift the economies of scale. Shifting...shifting...
And finally, the economy sucks. So people are looking to do without ANY innputs and I know only ONE way to do that and it doesn't include chemicals...
COMPOST, BABY! (My Dick Vitale imitation in honor of March Madness)
And...tipping point. I think we are right there. Look at the Canadian anti-pesticides movement (and how some of us are trying to make that happen here). Look at the fad that has grown around organics (I didn't say Gixx was wrong, just not completely dialed in...
). And look how many of you are walking the walk now, and setting examples for family, friends and neighbors. Let me tell you, I'm not even the first generation of organics folks, and there was NOTHING like this when I started. The "experts" talked to each other because no one else would listen! 
And now look!
I just took part in a Facebook campaign to get TruGreen/Chemlawn removed as an official sponsor of Earthday (yeah,
, right?). The response was so loud, so fast, and so organized that in three days, they were gone. Organics is becoming a given in the green equation, and the movement is stronger than it knows because it isn't organized; it's just us! But when we come together...WOW!
Back to topic though; I gotta disagree with Archer. Dirt is what you sweep up, it's soil until you kill it...
Word.
HG
Gixx said "I said before I didn't understand why "Organics" were so expensive, but I knew it was the "trendy" point of it. "
I think it is more a function of the usual economic engines than simply fadism. The fact that air is free has made chemical fertilizers cheap. Organic fertilizers are no where near as cheap, so organics is more expensive there. One guy in a helicopter can't organically treat an orchard (YET! but my friend Chandrappa told me they are looking at aerial tea applications, so there is hope), so more expense. And here's the real killer; because it is more expensive, fewer people do it, or do it on a smaller scale so smaller production runs means more operating expense. This is called economies of scale, and THAT, my friends, is why organics is more expensive...
But we have a few things in our favor. First, oil is dissappearing before our very eyes. Peak global production was at least two years back, four if you talk to the Saudis, exploration is costing more and producing less, and global demand is still rising while supply shrinks. Economics 101, kids; what happens in that scenario?
So as oil gets more expensive, so does fertilizer (burning a LOT of oil is how you make fertilizer). Soon the economies of scale will shift of necessity, so we have that going for us...
Secondly, people are waking up to the damage that chemical fertilization does to water and soil, and they are shifting despite the price. This too will shift the economies of scale. Shifting...shifting...
And finally, the economy sucks. So people are looking to do without ANY innputs and I know only ONE way to do that and it doesn't include chemicals...
COMPOST, BABY! (My Dick Vitale imitation in honor of March Madness)
And...tipping point. I think we are right there. Look at the Canadian anti-pesticides movement (and how some of us are trying to make that happen here). Look at the fad that has grown around organics (I didn't say Gixx was wrong, just not completely dialed in...
). And look how many of you are walking the walk now, and setting examples for family, friends and neighbors. Let me tell you, I'm not even the first generation of organics folks, and there was NOTHING like this when I started. The "experts" talked to each other because no one else would listen! And now look!I just took part in a Facebook campaign to get TruGreen/Chemlawn removed as an official sponsor of Earthday (yeah,
, right?). The response was so loud, so fast, and so organized that in three days, they were gone. Organics is becoming a given in the green equation, and the movement is stronger than it knows because it isn't organized; it's just us! But when we come together...WOW!Back to topic though; I gotta disagree with Archer. Dirt is what you sweep up, it's soil until you kill it...
Word.
HG
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gixxerific
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HG how can you not love this guy? 
I still think I was right it is supply and demand. Everyone want to be the new "organic" guy on the block. No to mention it makes sense. You are just bringing up another side of it, which is prudent as well of course.
High five on the work with facebook, you rock.
Speaking of chemical ferts, a few of my neighbors were hanging at my house today. They all use chemlawn
. I opened up my corn glutten and took a small nibble and asked them "Let me see you do that with your fertilizer" . Wasn't it cynthia that told me to not be so "in your face". F that!
No offense Cynthia
Oh yeah "Soil vs dirt" just plant something would you and quit worrying about nomenclature.
I still think I was right it is supply and demand. Everyone want to be the new "organic" guy on the block. No to mention it makes sense. You are just bringing up another side of it, which is prudent as well of course.
High five on the work with facebook, you rock.
Speaking of chemical ferts, a few of my neighbors were hanging at my house today. They all use chemlawn
. I opened up my corn glutten and took a small nibble and asked them "Let me see you do that with your fertilizer" . Wasn't it cynthia that told me to not be so "in your face". F that!No offense Cynthia
Oh yeah "Soil vs dirt" just plant something would you and quit worrying about nomenclature.
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The Helpful Gardener
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- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
Words are symbols, Gixx, and symbols are powerful things. Why d'ya think I got so worked up about TG sponsoring Earth Day? Is it just words, or is there some meaning that goes deeper?
Same with the soil, and the more I have viewed it, the more I like my version. It's like soil is the person, and dirt is just the corpse. It's soil untill you kill it, then it's dirt. The life is gone...
I grow in soil...
HG
Same with the soil, and the more I have viewed it, the more I like my version. It's like soil is the person, and dirt is just the corpse. It's soil untill you kill it, then it's dirt. The life is gone...
I grow in soil...
HG
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gixxerific
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rot
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I hear you guys. I was just curious about that word play of dirt vs soil.
I like the working idea of dirt being dead soil but in common usage and in trying to talk to a broader audience I think you'll find it simpler to say: 'dead soil'. I can't disagree with Archer.
I suppose it is a small matter to wrestle with words like soil versus dirt but words do seem to matter. Try talking to your insurance company and use the word fee instead of that insidious word co-pay.
I won't bother getting worked up about those 7 words you can't say on TV and thoughts about manipulating word usage manipulates ideas.
I suppose in the context of this discussion we could argue about the word bio-engineering. I expect the idea of DNA manipulation comes to mind the way it is used nowadays but isn't cross-pollination and the domestication of animals bio-engineering too?
As far as the other matter of how we treat our soil and organics versus industrial chemicals, I neither see full salvation in the organics movement as it is presently being proselytized nor do I really fear 'the corporations' in total.
I do fear the growing world population and increased competition for food, water and, other resources. I do fear that feeding the world will mean more and more engineered solutions and the growing mistrust on all sides will thwart the meaningful ones.
I hear you guys. Forgive me if I come off as being combative. I don't like using those smiley things.
To sense
..
I hear you guys. I was just curious about that word play of dirt vs soil.
I like the working idea of dirt being dead soil but in common usage and in trying to talk to a broader audience I think you'll find it simpler to say: 'dead soil'. I can't disagree with Archer.
I suppose it is a small matter to wrestle with words like soil versus dirt but words do seem to matter. Try talking to your insurance company and use the word fee instead of that insidious word co-pay.
I won't bother getting worked up about those 7 words you can't say on TV and thoughts about manipulating word usage manipulates ideas.
I suppose in the context of this discussion we could argue about the word bio-engineering. I expect the idea of DNA manipulation comes to mind the way it is used nowadays but isn't cross-pollination and the domestication of animals bio-engineering too?
As far as the other matter of how we treat our soil and organics versus industrial chemicals, I neither see full salvation in the organics movement as it is presently being proselytized nor do I really fear 'the corporations' in total.
I do fear the growing world population and increased competition for food, water and, other resources. I do fear that feeding the world will mean more and more engineered solutions and the growing mistrust on all sides will thwart the meaningful ones.
I hear you guys. Forgive me if I come off as being combative. I don't like using those smiley things.
To sense
..