Corrugated cardboard okay in compost?

[Kisal]

My Earth Machine has arrived, and I'm busily filling it with goodies for compost.

I have spent most of the day reading this section of the forum, and I've seen references to composting lightweight cardboard ... cores from rolls of tp and paper towels, for instance ... but except for its use in sheet composting, I've seen no references to adding corrugated cardboard to a compost pile or bin. Would that be okay, especially if I run it through the shredder first?

Oh, and I have to ask, just because ...

Would it be a green or a brown? (I still haven't quite figured out the differences yet! )

[The Helpful Gardener]

Papers are ALWAYS browns (carbon). Used to be wood, right?

I have heard some corrugation processes use chemicals and aren't great, but all the stuff I used to worry about in compost (low level antibiotics, excess salts from foodstuff) have turned out to be much ado about nothing, and from what I've been reading, most everyone seems to think that 1) that they don't make corrugated cardboard with glues anymore, and 2) it was never clear that the glue was dangerous in the first place. SO my offhand response is have at it (knowing that this is a concentrated brown, and it will need planty of greens to balance it), and if I turn anything to the contraire up, I'll scream my noggin off right here...

HG

[Kisal]

Thank you, HG! I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.

The reason I asked was that the Master Gardener who brought the Earth Machine to me recommended not to use corrugated cardboard, but he didn't seem to have a solid reason why. I saved some boxes especially for the compost, because browns are kinda hard for me to come by. I have plenty of greens, though.

Glad to hear I can use the boxes.

[cynthia_h]

Cardboard: OK. If the Master Gardener did his training "several" years ago , cardboard may still have been poorly thought of.

I've had my BioStack Bin since '84 or thereabouts, and I've put newspaper, shredded cardboard, and the aforementioned paper towel tubes and toilet paper tubes, cereal boxes and the like into it (torn up). All have been fine with the compost critters, who aren't picky.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Diane]

I've put it in mine too. My piles are on the ground and I'll put the cardboard down first then pile on that. The worms love it.

[rainbowgardener]

YAY!! Congratulations on the new Earth Machine. I put cardboard in my pile too. I do tear it into pieces (not like shredding, like sizes between a piece of paper to a newspaper) first. Otherwise it can take a while to break down and I worry about it blocking air circulation. Other browns, besides of course fall leaves which are starting to come down (I collect tons of fall leaves from around the neighborhood and used them until summer), include paper towels which I never throw away since I switched to all organic cleaning products, coffee filters, the paper from our paper shredder, the 50 lb bags we buy bird seed in, and all the stuff cynthia mentioned.

[applestar]

I can search for it, but I think TheLorax mentioned last year that she thought corrugated cardboard contains/is treated with formaldehyde to make them flame retardant. I remember responding with a horrified query about whether she was sure -- I can't remember if she came back with a definitive answer.

I've been less enthusiastic about corrugated since then, but I do use them for sheet mulching new ornamental beds, and a few find their way into the compost pile once in a while.

[cynthia_h]

I just did our new Search with cardboard + formaldehyde and found the thread you were talking about.

No, she never provided specifics. My personal experience has been that the cardboard rots away like any other brown; maybe she was collecting a specific type of cardboard? Not all cardboards are equal...the cardboard that wardrobe moving boxes are made of, for instance, is much stiffer than the usual box cardboard is. Maybe that's what she had, since she wanted to cover such a large area.

Cynthia

[The Helpful Gardener]

And [url=https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts111.pdf]formaldehyde[/url] has the lifespan of a fruit fly in the open ecosystem; breaks down to formic acid and carbon monoxide very quickly. Obviouosly the latter wants to be CO2 in the worst way so it is not around long. And formic acid is used as a preservative in livestock feeds, and naturally secreted by ants, so it's pretty much out there; huge amounts can be corrosive and 2% inclusion can be a mild irritant, but you will not likely get to a part per million in the situation we are talking about. This just isn't an issue in my mind...

We can handcuff ourselves into doing nothing, worrying about every man-made chemical we run across, but some really are innocuous. Cooler heads do the homework, realistically weigh the risks, and make sound decisions based on real science, not knee-jerk reactions based on fundamentalist views or "gut feelings". I think an extreme negative response to formaldehyde falls in the latter category...

HG

[applestar]

I guess the key phrase here is "in the open ecosystem."

Coming from the MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) school of thought, in the human body, formaldehyde first breaks down into an "aldehyde" and gets stuck when detox pathways are less than ideal -- such as hereditary lack of necessary Phase II conjugation enzymes in the liver -- causing all kinds of problems.

[Kisal]

Wow! Thanks, everyone, for your contributions! I'm such a noob on the subject of composting. I have tons of information to absorb!

Many years ago, when I routinely had 3 or 4 open compost piles going all the time, the only things I was advised not to put on them were very invasive weeds, like ground bindweed and blackberry.

Yesterday, I read that even very invasive material can be put in a tightly closed black plastic yard bag and allowed to sit in the sun, until it deteriorates "beyond recognition." Undoubtedly, that wouldn't be necessary if the compost pile, itself, were running very hot. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get mine really hot, though. I suppose that should be a topic for another thread. I have so many questions!

[The Helpful Gardener]

AS is right, the degassing that takes place indoors of this stuff is not great, and it is a very commonly manufactured and used chemical, but it's breakdown agents are mostly innocuous outdoors. Water is necessary for life, but in extreme quantities it can kill you. It's all about concentration...

HG

[huskie]

Cardboard is fine....just takes a while to compost. To get things to compost faster you can add sugar or sugar products.

[The Helpful Gardener]

The formic acid IS antibacterial, so it might slow bacterial action, and this is a VERY concentrated brown (carbon) which is more supportive of fungii than bacteria but "sugar products" would boost the bacterial side... (I like organic molasses; still pretty unrefined) Alfalfa teas are great for bacterial side as well and you can find alafalfa pellets anywhere you feed animals, so that would help too... just throw them in a bucket of water, stir twice a day and water your compost with it when it starts to get the first fumes of hydogen sulfides (the smell Uncle Walter makes when you pull his finger... ) THAT'LL kick the bacterial side but good (alfalfa is a high nitrogen plant food...)

Compost Happens...

HG

[huskie]

AND...with Halloween coming up there otta be tons of left over candy to supplement the sugar products for all compost piles

No way can I let my kids eat ALL they get.....plus, if they hide it in their rooms ants are sure to find it

[rot]

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I don't have a shortage of browns. I shy away from cardboard because I worry about the inks. I don't know much about inks outside of domestic newspapers using soy to get away from haz mat handling issues.

I suppose food packing boxes should be safe.

I'm not overly sensitive since I do use shredded office paper which comes from photocopiers and laser printers which means toner. Toner is essentially a non-toxic plastic. To paraphrase the response I got from Xerox: the paper will break down but the toner will not.

I can get shredded paper and don't have to shred cardboard so it's an easy decision.

I'd look out for anything that might be printed overseas.

two cents

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[The Helpful Gardener]

Thanks Rot. All good things to think on...

HG

[smokensqueal]

I also use quite of bit of cardboard at this time of year. I'm out of leaves from last year and don't have any yet from this year and all my veggie scraps and the last few weeks the grass grew like it was on steroids so I needed lots of brown. I don't do much cutting or shredding I more or less lay it down and slice it up with a utility knife. It makes some small pieces and some not so small pieces. after some water and some moist greens it just falls apart.

[rot]

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>I more or less lay it down and slice it up with a utility knife.<

I like that. I'm stealing it next time I need to deal with cardboard.

Do anything with newspaper?

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[rot]

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"All good things to think on... "

Thank you. I like to think about how to remediate what I can. Please keep 'em coming and keep in mind us lazy folks too.

OK everybody: let's rot.

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[Kisal]

The cardboard cartons I used were just small ones, the largest being about 6 x 12 x 18. I used a box knife to cut them into sections, and then ran each section through my cross-cut paper shredder. I figured it shouldn't be any harder to cut up a piece of cardboard that size, than it would be to cut up a CD. The thing is supposed to be able to cut up 1 CD at a time.

I ended up with nice little 1/2" x 1/4 " pieces of cardboard. They ought to compost fairly well, I would think. [img]https://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gif[/img]

[rainbowgardener]

Oh yeah... shredding them is great! I don't bother, just tear it up in pieces, but it will definitely compost down quicker, shredded.

[!potatoes!]

or you could use my household's rather passive technique of forgetting about leaving a couple of broken down corrugated boxes out back of the house until the layers have parted on their own from months worth of rain. real easy to rip up then.