Taiji
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What do you think of gasoline with ethanol?

The reason I'm asking is because when I first arrived here in the U.P. I had to buy a lawnmower, and the salesperson said to use premium gas sans ethanol. Then, had to buy a generator and salesperson said the same thing. I had bought mower and generators in the past and the recommendation was just use regular gas. Salesperson said though, that today's gas is more
dirty than it was some years back.

So, I'm wondering if we should be using ethanol free gas in our vehicles too, or at least running an ethanol free fuel thru there once in awhile? What do you think? I haven't really experienced any trouble with gas with ethanol up to now in my trucks, at least that I'm aware of.

pepperhead212
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What I have heard about this subject is that ethanol could possibly degrade the gaskets in lawn machines, as well as older cars. Newer cars have been designed for fuel with ethanol, though I'm not sure when they started this. It seems that they should be doing this with newer lawn machines, but I never had to research it.

gumbo2176
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pepperhead212 wrote:What I have heard about this subject is that ethanol could possibly degrade the gaskets in lawn machines, as well as older cars. Newer cars have been designed for fuel with ethanol, though I'm not sure when they started this. It seems that they should be doing this with newer lawn machines, but I never had to research it.
I also think another aspect of this is the frequency of use. Most folks start and use their vehicles daily whereas a mower, tiller, pressure washer, weed whacker, etc. are used much more sparingly. I quit buying gas powered weed eaters years ago because they would start and run fine for a year or more, than one day they would just not want to start and keep running.

I've spoken to a lot of commercial lawn company owners over the years and they buy top of the line equipment and hardly have any issues with keeping things running since they are in daily use.

imafan26
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Ethanol gasoline can be used in the newer cars because they are designed to use ethanol gas. The cars are also designed not to last as long as the older cars too. But it is the electronics and accidents that take the greatest toll on the cars. Cars are designed to crumble and usually are declared a total loss if the air bag is deployed because just replacing the air bag would exceed the value of most cars. The more electronics in a machine, the more likely you are to have issues with them that are costly to fix.

Lawn mowers, weed whackers, and generators should not have gas of any kind in them for any length of time. Gas spoils over time and the equipment will fail to start. If the machine sits long enough to evaporate the gas, there is usually a gummy residue that would require you to take the carburetor apart and have to clean and unclog it. Gas left in the tank of a generator or lawn mower can corrode and rust the metal. Ethanol gas breaks down and water is a by product that will rust the metal parts of any small engine. Ethanol is also hard on the gaskets.

Even if you use ethanol free gas, it still spoils unless you add stabil to stabilize the gasoline so it keeps a bit longer. Some say that gasoline is stable for 6 months to a year but you don't know how old the gas is when you buy it. How long it was in storage before it was even delivered to the gas station. If the gas station does not do the same volume that Costco does, then the gas may stay in the station tanks for a while as well. Ethanol shield is required if you use ethanol gas in a generator. The generators are marked and it says right on the top to make sure you use ethanol shield.

If you don't use gas equipment very frequently, it is best to run the machine dry every time. It means taking more time to prime, but there will be less issues with the gas corroding or spoiling. Remember, gas equipment does require regular maintenance. The spark plugs, filters and oil need to be changed as well. The primer bulb, fuel line, air filter, and pull string are parts that usually get worn and need to be replaced periodically.

Gas has the power to do a job quickly and efficiently but it does require regular maintenance. It is noisy and not exactly environmentally friendly when you burn a gas oil mix.

Corded and battery powered equipment (less than 40 volts) are good enough for people with small yards and who don't have any heavy cutting to do. They are quieter than gas and a lot easier to start. I sometimes get so tired pulling the string on a gas engine that by the time I get the machine started, I am already tired and I haven't even begun to mow yet. The down side are the limited time and distance. You are limited by the cord on a corded machine and on the power drain on the battery. The battery and gas mowers do allow you to be able to use the machines in more situations where an electrical outlet is not available. You won't have the maintenance of a gas mower. You will still have to change the cutting lines, sharpen blades or change cutting lines, and clean the bottom of the lawn mower and weed whacker. The battery life and power is getting better all the time but it is still the achilles heel of cordless machines. Most batteries only last 30 minutes at full power and take an equal time to charge. Most people have another battery for backup. The batteries are the most costly part of the machines to replace.

This is the same with the electric cars. They have a short range of about 50 miles on average and they need to be charged up frequently. There are a few electric car spaces at some places but they are still not that common. The cost of batteries has gone down but it still costs thousands of dollars to replace the battery in an electric veicle.

Taiji
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Thank you so much for the info. I have 3 trucks the newest of which is 1997. Oldest 1994. Not sure when they started the ethanol tolerant vehicles either. I've seen some gas for sale up here that is eco 15, but there is a warning on the pump that it may damage some vehicles if your vehicle is not built to use it.

Thx all!

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tomf
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In my gas powered tools I only use non ethanol gas, I add a gas stabilizer. Ethanol gas can gum up you system when stored. It used to be drain the gas but the hoses and gaskets can dry out.

imafan26
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There are some stations that sell E-0 (ethanol free gas). It costs almost twice as much ast E-10. 10% ethanol is the only other kind of gas other than diesel which is available here and most cars and even generators that use ethanol shield do not recommend gas any higher thanE-10.

The other thing about ethanol gas is that it burns faster so it is less efficient than regular gas. You get a few more miles out of regular gas than from ethanol. The improvements mandated by the government to improve fuel efficiency has come mostly from reducing the weight and size of the cars. Using lighter metals (try pushing on the side of a new car), more plastic, and smaller engines.

You can eke out better mileage with a standard shift car if you know how to use it.

Unfortunately the internal combustion engine is not the most environmentally sound or best way to go. However, the oil industry has a stake in making sure alternative energy sources like solar, electric, and some other kind of power train remains more costly to start up. The internal combustion engine technology is about a hundred years old. It is more than time for an improvement that would be less damaging to the environment and it should not cost and arm and two legs, especially considering that people spend increasingly more time sitting in traffic as population growth and the growth of suburbs outpaces the capacity of the road systems.

PaulF
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I have been using ethanol for close to 40 years. Beginning with my 1968 Chevy Impala through a couple of more Chevrolets to five different Toyotas to a Ford Ranger to a Chevy pick-up to our new Toyota RAV4 have all been fueled with ethanol with no problems. All gas powered engines have used gasket material that is OK to use with ethanol since the late 1970s; that includes mowers, generators, tillers and includes cars and trucks. Pre-1980 engines sometimes had material not conducive to E-10. The gas milage difference is negligible compared to the cost difference. At least here in the mid-west there is a price difference.

All gasoline left over the winter will gum up the works since most all of the additives have been removed that used to be stabilizers. Whether this was for economics of another government mandate to save us from ourselves I don't know. With dump the gas out of machinery, run the tank dry or add a winterizing stabilizer.

My 1960's rototiller has gone from leaded gas to non-leaded gas to ethanol and never skipped a beat. My newer (1990s) chipper-shredder with the same brand engine has had nothing but ethanol; the same for the much newer garden tractor/mower and lawnmower. No problems at all. I have a Cushman Truckster that is my favorite piece of equipment and it has used ethanol since I got it ten years ago...no telling which fuel it used in the ten years previous to me having it.

Here in corn country, almost everyone fuels up with E-10. Cost or solidarity with corn farmers is the reason. For me it is both.

I have no fear of ethanol and actually prefer it.

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tomf
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On a tangent to topic; I finally got an electric pump for one on my oil tanks so I can fuel my tractor and UTV. I have three 375 gallon tanks for hot water and the heat system. So I converted one for the pump. I had been getting it in 5 gallon cans, two at a time at the local station.

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Gary350
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If I had not taken chemistry classes in college I would never believe what I am about to say.

Gasoline companies formulate gasoline to have water in it for several reasons, #1 they can sell you water for gas and make a bigger profit. #2 water turns to steam and water volume increases 1800 times producing slightly more power than gas. Gas companies can add more water to gas in hot weather than cold weather. If you live where it is 100 degrees in summer gas contains about 9% water but weather gets colder in the south like Texas gas only contains about 3% water in winter. If you live up north where summer is colder gas contains about 7% water and winter contains no water it will freeze in winter cold weather.

If you buy summer gas with 9% water then keep it in your gas can until winter the water may freeze. Gasoline if manufactures for each geographical location in the USA. Never put car gas in an airplane gas line freeze at higher elevations. Never buy gas in Arizona then use that gas up north in colder weather.

Gasoline contains 10% alcohol if you want to remove the alcohol add water. The water you add attaches its self to the water in gas and it all falls to the bottom of the gas can. Pour the water off then you have 100% gas with no water. Put the water alcohol mix in a still cook off the alcohol at about 186 degrees F like you would moon shine save the alcohol to use it in your Coleman camp stove.

If your lawn mower is having trouble cutting tall grass put 4 gallons of gas in a 5 gallon container then add 1 gallon of diesel fuel. Now your lawn mower will have 20% more horse power and cut that tall grass easier. You can also put this gas mix in your car, truck, 4 wheeler, boat, race car, etc they will all have 20% more horse power.

If you leave ethanol gas in your lawn mower all winter it will cause a rust problem because alcohol is hydroscopic that means it pulls moisture from the air into the gas now you have a worse water problem than before the carburetor gets rusted and stops working. When you put your lawn mower in the garage for the winter drain out all the gas, start the engine let it run until motor stops all the gas in carburetor is now gone. Put new gas in the mower next summer it will run fine don't waste money on a tiny $10 bottle of fuel additive.

You can also buy gas in a 5 gallon container let it set around for a few months all the water and alcohol falls to the the bottom on its own with age.

I drive an old 1967 Chevy pickup truck been running ethanol gas in it for 15 years no problems. Lawn mowers, tillers, weed eaters, etc are made cheap with steel metal parts in the carburetor that rust if you leave gas in them all winter soon they will not run. Drain the gas.

Don't believer all the propaganda you hear that is designed to scare you so you buy stuff like $10 additive to make some low life ruthless deceptive company $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I like adding diesel fuel to gas to run in my hobby jet engine for 20% more power & extra speed about 300 mph. If I remove alcohol from gas then run it through my small still I can make 95% alcohol that contains 5% water this produces about 48% more power than gasoline. I don't use 95% alcohol often I just did this as experiment to see how much extra power it produces in my hobby jet engine. I built a still with a kitchen pressure cooker & 60 ft of 1/4" copper tubing.
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imafan26
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The government mandated the ethanol in the gas. I think that was when OPEC controlled most of the world's gas and the US was mostly sitting on their reserves. The other bad thing about ethanol is that is is made from corn. Now, you could have made alcohol from fermenting other things, like rye, sugar cane, or almost any carbohydrate and a little yeast. Farmers have a hard time with narrow profit margins and fluctuating commodity prices. Too much corn and the price drops. Find other uses for corn = there is no surplus and now pigs, cattle, chickens and humans compete with gasoline for corn. The farmers get a better price for their corn in surplus years and a bonus in lean years. But, by not putting corn to its highest and best use and using corn instead of something cheaper to make ethanol, we all are paying the price, not only in higher fuel costs but about three times more than we used to pay for food.

Meat costs more because the corn used to feed animals (which is what the majority of the corn crop is grown for) costs the farmers and ranchers more and they are still subject to fluctuating prices when they sell off their animals. All farmers whether they grow commodities, food crops, or meat, dairy, and poultry are subject to volatility in the price they pay for gas, quality breeding stock, costs of running the farms, and feedstocks to run their operations. They aren't even sure if they can cover their operational costs because of the instability of the markets when they sell their product. It is why so many small dairy farmers are selling, because their cows produce so much milk that they can't sell the milk for a price that can cover the costs of production. The high cost of GMO cotton seed has resulted in a high suicide rate among farmers in India who see no other way out of debt.

Weather plays a large part in the cost of production. Droughts and deluges both affect cost of producing a crop and when a farm's livelihood is dependent on investment in a crop future and the uncertainty of what nature throws at you and then on hoping for a good price at auction that will be good enough to turn a profit and keep the business financially sound.

Putting food on the table takes a bigger chunk out of everyone's paycheck than it did before ethanol gas was mandated. When I made good money, I did not think that much about it. But, now, I live on a pension. Prices have tripled and I have gone back to work to get medical coverage and a few dollars more in my pocket to pay rising expenses. I have not got a comfortable margin anymore. I have had to give up things, some things I really miss, others I have gotten used to being without. I am glad to have whatever vegetables and fruits I can grow in my gardens. Otherwise, I would probably not have very much of it, since fresh fruits and vegetables are not only more perishable, they are expensive when you have to live on a limited budget. Ask anyone who has to live on a food stamp budget. It is hard to even get to a store that sells quality food if you have to walk or use public transportation. and bulk buying is nearly impossible since there is usually not enough to last till the end of the month, much less anything left to stock a pantry.

I don't think ethanol was a good thing to do. Everytime the government interferes in the free market, they find ways to mess it up.
I have not had good experience with ethanol gas. I had a gas weed whacker less than a year. I had a harder and harder time starting it. This was before I knew about what ethanol does to a small gas engine especially one that is only used once a month. The cost of repairing it was more than the cost of the machine. I went back to a corded weed whacker. It does not have the power, and the string cuts annoyingly way to often, but it starts every time.,, until it breaks. I go through about 3 a year. Although the last Black and Decker trimmer I bought uses a heavier line and has lasted the longest.
https://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph240/sojka2/

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Gary350
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imafan26 wrote:The government mandated the ethanol in the gas. I think that was when OPEC controlled most of the world's gas and the US was mostly sitting on their reserves. The other bad thing about ethanol is that is is made from corn. Now, you could have made alcohol from fermenting other things, like rye, sugar cane, or almost any carbohydrate and a little yeast. Farmers have a hard time with narrow profit margins and fluctuating commodity prices. Too much corn and the price drops. Find other uses for corn = there is no surplus and now pigs, cattle, chickens and humans compete with gasoline for corn. The farmers get a better price for their corn in surplus years and a bonus in lean years. But, by not putting corn to its highest and best use and using corn instead of something cheaper to make ethanol, we all are paying the price, not only in higher fuel costs but about three times more than we used to pay for food.

Meat costs more because the corn used to feed animals (which is what the majority of the corn crop is grown for) costs the farmers and ranchers more and they are still subject to fluctuating prices when they sell off their animals. All farmers whether they grow commodities, food crops, or meat, dairy, and poultry are subject to volatility in the price they pay for gas, quality breeding stock, costs of running the farms, and feedstocks to run their operations. They aren't even sure if they can cover their operational costs because of the instability of the markets when they sell their product. It is why so many small dairy farmers are selling, because their cows produce so much milk that they can't sell the milk for a price that can cover the costs of production. The high cost of GMO cotton seed has resulted in a high suicide rate among farmers in India who see no other way out of debt.

Weather plays a large part in the cost of production. Droughts and deluges both affect cost of producing a crop and when a farm's livelihood is dependent on investment in a crop future and the uncertainty of what nature throws at you and then on hoping for a good price at auction that will be good enough to turn a profit and keep the business financially sound.

Putting food on the table takes a bigger chunk out of everyone's paycheck than it did before ethanol gas was mandated. When I made good money, I did not think that much about it. But, now, I live on a pension. Prices have tripled and I have gone back to work to get medical coverage and a few dollars more in my pocket to pay rising expenses. I have not got a comfortable margin anymore. I have had to give up things, some things I really miss, others I have gotten used to being without. I am glad to have whatever vegetables and fruits I can grow in my gardens. Otherwise, I would probably not have very much of it, since fresh fruits and vegetables are not only more perishable, they are expensive when you have to live on a limited budget. Ask anyone who has to live on a food stamp budget. It is hard to even get to a store that sells quality food if you have to walk or use public transportation. and bulk buying is nearly impossible since there is usually not enough to last till the end of the month, much less anything left to stock a pantry.

I don't think ethanol was a good thing to do. Everytime the government interferes in the free market, they find ways to mess it up.
I have not had good experience with ethanol gas. I had a gas weed whacker less than a year. I had a harder and harder time starting it. This was before I knew about what ethanol does to a small gas engine especially one that is only used once a month. The cost of repairing it was more than the cost of the machine. I went back to a corded weed whacker. It does not have the power, and the string cuts annoyingly way to often, but it starts every time.,, until it breaks. I go through about 3 a year. Although the last Black and Decker trimmer I bought uses a heavier line and has lasted the longest.
https://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph240/sojka2/
I grew up on a farm in Illinois, my family still farms I have 2 cousins that share crops 2000 acres each every year. My cousin that lives near Mattoon ILL fertilizes and plants corn every year. He gets a bank load every summer to buy, seed, fertilizer, fuel, pay for labor. After he pays off his bills in Oct he sometimes has a $100,000. profit that is his yearly income but bad weather can reduce his profit to $40,000. per year. My cousin in Fairfield share crops 2000 acres too he has a different method of making higher profit. He has 10 large grain storage bends with auto humidity controls after harvest all the corn goes into the bends prices are usually low this time of the here where it waits for higher corn prices nest spring, when prices are up usually at the beginning of corn planting season he sells most of his corn. He uses his own corn for seed so he does not have to pay $27,000. to seed companies for their seed corn. He also rotates crops, corn 1 year then beans the next year then corn again. He makes a good profit too if weather permits.

Farmers can not afford to own their own land it cost too much to farm. A lot of small farmers got old and died their children still own the land and make extra income share cropping the land. Share cropping has changed the land owner use to get 1/3 the profit and the farmer got 2/3 of the profit the idea being farmer got 1/3 to pay for, seed, fertilizer, fuel, labor, maintenance and the other 1/3 was his income. Farming has changed big companies have bought up much of the land they want a fixed fee per acre they don't give a @#$% if farmer has hard luck and bad weather it is all about making a profit for them. 20 years ago I use to know fee per acre but I don't know anymore. Fee per acre also stops the farmer from cheating the land owner in the past farmer could sell 70% of the crop and hide the other 30% of his crop so not to pay the land owner his full 1/3. People have become too dishonest to be trusted.

About 30 years ago Japan started buying up our farm land. Japan sent their people here to live on their farm land and farm 2000 acres, buy new equipment and farm their own land. After corn was harvested it was shipped off to Japan. Japan never sold the corn so they never paid federal income tax and never paid export fees own corn not bought from us. It was a win win for them. Long ago I heard Russia & another country started buying up our land too and doing as Japan did to same tons of money not buying corn from us. Many year ago TV news said the government was going to stop allowing other countries to buy and farm our land but I don't keep up with that I have no clue what is going on now. My cousin in Fairfield owns 40 acres of land, my cousin in Mattoon owns 20 acres. I'm not totally sure what Japan was doing I heard they had 20 year land lease with a guarantee fee per acre for the land owner and also heard they bought 10 acres just large enough for all the farm equipment to be stored year round with a care taker to live there.



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