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tomf
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3 shot dead at my local mall!

The mall closest to me had a shooter kill 2 people and then himself, one person is fighting for her life. I have always been pro guns but do we need assault weapons with large clips? I am now thinking after so many killings that the slogan should be "guns don't kill people, people with guns do". My wife could have been there!

https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-mall-shoot ... ories.html

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applestar
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How scary! It's horrific that something like that could happen so close to home. :shock:

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rainbowgardener
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Personally, I don't see any reason why anyone should be walking around a mall with any kind of gun at all. The gun you have for critter control at home, Mg, you probably don't take with you to the mall! And definitely agree with all the above re large clip semi-automatic.

Here's another one:

https://www.capitalbay.com/latest-news/2 ... ldren.html

This 26 yr old woman was allegedly shoplifting when caught by WalMart security guard. She ran away and got in her car and tried to leave, so the guard fired IN TO THE CAR in which she was with two small children and killed her.

OK right, she should not have been shoplifting (if she in fact was); she should not have run. But none of that is a capital offense!!! She did not deserve to die for it, nor did the children in the car who easily could have been hit. What would have been wrong with shooting her tire? What would have been wrong with just writing down her license plate number and tracking her down later? Why should a WalMart security guard even HAVE a gun!?

Green Mantis
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tomf....

Thank goodness your wife wasn't there, or you. :shock:

That's just awful, what is this world coming to???? So sad, a person isn't safe anywhere anymore. :(

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digitS'
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I want to agree with all of this.

My son no longer lives in Portland but I immediately began following this with your local media. We have friends and family in Oregon but, I'm sure, they were nowhere close by.

What possible reason would a person have for owning a large clip? Assault weapons are just for that purpose: assault. Do we permit the sale and use of recoilless rifles? Defensive purposes? How about a mine field in the front yard?

As far as carrying weapons to public places: we could almost see how the tragedy of the shooting of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords could have been compounded by the guy who showed up with a gun moments after it occurred. He found someone standing with a gun pointing at someone on the ground. What did it take for him to realize that the shooter was on the ground and had been disarmed?

We are always - endlessly - looking for heroes in these events. When do we realize that victims far outnumber those who have a chance to act heroically and, I dare say, so do the psychopaths.

Steve

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Liberals are out in force this morning.

Green Mantis
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Well I'm going to stick my neck out here with my next few words, as far as my hubby and I am concerned, TV does NOT help, or MOVIES.

Look at some of the total rubbish they put on TV for kids and phyco's to watch :!:

The MOVIES actually SHOW these people how to do sick things, "if" they hadn't thought of them first themselves. TV shows do as well.

Do these people "not" realize there are very un-balanced people out there, that DO and WILL watch these things??????

Then unfortunately it "all" goes on tv, when something happens. Which also gives the "copy" cat's ideas.

Our information age is great for a lot of things, but.... "I" think they go w-a-y too far.

What are your opinons on my comments???? Am I wrong? I'm certainly

not againgst seeing opposing ideas.

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Exactly, Green Mantis. It is our culture...or maybe the lack thereof. Taking away the guns or should I say trying to take them away is not going to help. The criminals will always have guns and you will have to wade through hot brass to take mine.

Look at the crime rates in Australia after they took the guns away. They soared. The good guys might be convinced to give up their guns, but the bad guys won't.

I know that the Constitution does not mean anything to most Americans today, but it is a sacred document and what part of the right to bear arms will not be infringed upon do you not understand?

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Green Mantis wrote:Well I'm going to stick my neck out here with my next few words, as far as my hubby and I am concerned, TV does NOT help, or MOVIES.

Look at some of the total rubbish they put on TV for kids and phyco's to watch :!:

The MOVIES actually SHOW these people how to do sick things, "if" they hadn't thought of them first themselves. TV shows do as well.

Do these people "not" realize there are very un-balanced people out there, that DO and WILL watch these things??????

Then unfortunately it "all" goes on tv, when something happens. Which also gives the "copy" cat's ideas.

Our information age is great for a lot of things, but.... "I" think they go w-a-y too far.

What are your opinons on my comments???? Am I wrong? I'm certainly

not againgst seeing opposing ideas.
I killed the TV about 4 years ago.

Not saying you are wrong, but if you are right, you should add, Internet, video games and even books. How far do we take censorship

One should shoot themselves before taking another life.

And know this post should be removed for the political restrictions.

Eric

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DDF......Your'e right, TV "used" to be interesting, you waited for your program to come on, and it wasn't disgusting. But as you say how far do you take cencorship?????

I really don't like watching most of the programs anymore. Just a very few shows that I find interesting, gardening shows, the odd comedy, cooking shows. We need more gardening shows. :D

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tomf
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My wife was at the mall the day before.
Last edited by tomf on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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I know that the Constitution does not mean anything to most Americans today, but it is a sacred document
The U.S. Constitution is not sacred. This isn't the Roman Empire where we have to hold the Cesar as divine and all that. This is a big problem with the U.S. today, where some people think of the nation and it's flag in religious terms. That's actually anathema to Christianity. Traditional Christian relationship to government descended from what Jesus is quoted as saying, give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar and to God what belongs to God. One, he was establishing that Cesar is not God and the government is not divine or divinely inspired. Two, Religion was separate from the government. By calling the Constitution divine you are committing a grave error and heretical at that. ;)
sa·cred
/ˈsākrid/Adjective
1.Connected with God (or the gods) or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration: "sacred rites".
2.Religious rather than secular.
and what part of the right to bear arms will not be infringed upon do you not understand?
The Constitution is a document written by men, not God. It is a document of it's time, which was a time of revolutionary action against Britain. The right to bear arms was stuck in there so that the American colonists would be encouraged to form anti-British militias.

Do NOT put words into my mouth. I am not saying you are not entitled to bear arms. I am only pointing out that you are being unrealistic about that document by acting as if it were handed down by God himself to the colonialists.
Last edited by webmaster on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

DoubleDogFarm
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The right to bear arms was stuck in there so that the American colonists would be encouraged to form anti-British militias.
Thank you Roger, well said.

Eric

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tomf
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I have always been around guns and I do own some but not assault weapons.

With some people any attempt to look rational at guns brings out the slogans and they instantly get overly defensive and of course pop off the liberal word like it is some kind of dirty word. In todays world slogans and miss information take the place of real thought.

Just something to think about.

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4] A small majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6] In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 60% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violen ... ted_States
Last edited by tomf on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tomf
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The real story of guns in Australia.

"The American National Rifle Association claimed in 2000 that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws, based on highly unrepresentative statistics from newspaper articles. The federal Attorney General Daryl Williams accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to "remove any reference to Australia" from its website.[35]"



Where I think Australia may be restrictive and I do not abdacate banning most guns that said here is the Australian link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

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not sure why "assault weapons" need to be in the civilian arsenal - but quite frankly it makes not a whit.

a lever action rifle of any sort would be equally as effective, as the civilian targets are neither charging or shooting back.

once upon a time loony-tuners were institutionalized and / or locked up.
now-a-days it's within one's constitutional rights to be known totally whacked out / crazy but still left loose on the rest of the population.

one is obviously not crazy until one kills a couple dozen people.
then some lawyer will step in and convinces a jury it's not the loon's fault because as child he once got spanked.

and the loony-tuney tabloid press is of no help - all they do is ensure the next looney will devise a plan to kill x+3 people so that looney can "hold the record"

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I saw a 60 Minutes years back where Mike or Morley interviewed some Texans at a shooting range. When asked why 30 round clips might be necessary to the sport of hunting, the young man outside the range replied:

[heavy drawl] " You might miss him with the first 29 shots"

This is too close to political for me. Peace out.

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digitS'
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Eeevverything can be "political" -- gum stuck on the sidewalk can be a politically-charged topic for some folks.

Here's is a comparison of the United States . .

. to 22 high-income countries that provided data to the World Health Organization.

"RESULTS: The US homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries."

(link) National Institutes of Health

Okay, that's just a number -- 7 times higher homicide rate.

Steve

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a lever action rifle of any sort would be equally as effective, as the civilian targets are neither charging or shooting back.
I heard on the radio that 40 or maybe 41 states now have concealed weapons permit. I believe there will be more shooting back.

Eric

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I heard on the radio that 40 or maybe 41 states now have concealed weapons permit. I believe there will be more shooting back.

Eric[/quote]

You are probably right.
More proof that our society is regressing, not progressing.

DoubleDogFarm
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doubledogfarm wrote:I heard on the radio that 40 or maybe 41 states now have concealed weapons permit. I believe there will be more shooting back.

Eric
lily51 wrote:You are probably right.
More proof that our society is regressing, not progressing.
I'm not sure what I heard on the radio earlier. I just checked on-line. It's 49 states and Illinois will be 50.

Eric



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