DoubleDogFarm
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I found this argument interesting. You should, they will.

My neighbor keeps asking me when I will finish my oil burner project. "You have the oil and you are accumulating more". I told him I'm still gathering parts and need some time to assemble.

I also mentioned the concern with neighborhood smoke and pollution. His response was what else could you do with it. I said, "recycle it". Neighbor, "and what will they do with it". I told him, "they will most likely use it for bunker fuel in the large cargo ship"? Neighbor, "so it will be burned anyway and you should just go ahead with your project." :?

I didn't have much to say after his comment. I found his argument interesting. Is it a sound argument in your thinking. Should one do something, because it will be done anyway?

Eric

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lorax
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Not necessarily. For example: I choose not to cut old growth forest, but it is done whether I choose to or not. This doesn't mean I should start!

Equally, I choose not to eat at McDonald's or other fast-food conglomerate chains, but millions of other people are going to anyhow.

What your neighbour is suggesting is tantamount to saying "everybody else is jumping off a cliff, so I will too." There's a logical fallacy at play there.

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rainbowgardener
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I basically agree with Lorax, although this is a slightly different case. In this case it isn't just that some McD burgers are going to be eaten whether or not we eat them, but this particular oil that Eric already has is going to be burned or not.

Seems like that gives other options, like finding a way to break it down, burying it deep underground (what we do with gazillions of tons of fracking wastes) etc. But in the meantime, even if Eric recycles it and then it is burned in a cargo ship, at least it won't be polluting your own neighborhood. I don't know that that is morally superior, but practically it may be.

But I do agree that I am responsible for my own behavior. I don't want to be responsible for causing further harm. Therefore I work on eating low on the food chain, reducing my carbon footprint, etc. What I do may or may not make a difference in the big picture scheme of things, but it keeps the responsibility off me. And it may make a difference. Perhaps by modelling and witnessing, I can influence others to do the same. When one and one and one make a million, it does make a difference!
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DoubleDogFarm
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What your neighbour is suggesting is tantamount to saying "everybody else is jumping off a cliff, so I will too." There's a logical fallacy at play there
I believe there is more to it. Do we have a 5 mile hike to get to the top of the cliff to leap off?
But I do agree that I am responsible for my own behavior. I don't want to be responsible for causing further harm. Therefore I work on eating low on the food chain, reducing my carbon footprint, etc. What I do may or may not make a difference in the big picture scheme of things, but it keeps the responsibility off me. And it may make a difference. Perhaps by modelling and witnessing, I can influence others to do the same. When one and one and one make a million, it does make a difference!
I could hand off the oil to someone else, but have I done my part? How about all the recycling cost. Energy - pollution.

*Gas in my truck to the recycle center.
*Gas or diesel in the recycle truck to the Washington Ferry system
*Diesel of the ferry
*Recycle truck off the ferry to the main recycle center or refinery. Not sure where used oil goes.
*Gas or electricity to off load the recycle truck
*What are the processes to make used oil usable.

Cost to cost. Energy to energy. Pollution to pollution. What is the lesser evil. I use the oil to heat my shop and maybe greenhouse / fish tanks or send it away.

Eric

Green Mantis
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You obviously had something in mind for it, when you started your project?

If it is going to help "you" where you are, then why cart it off to

somewhere else, that will basically do the same thing?

By trucking it away, as you mentioned, I think you would be making a bigger

footprint, by doing that, rather than usuing it at home.

But only my humble opinion. :?

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LA47
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I agree with Green Mantis.
High Altitude Gardener zone 4B or 5A

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tomf
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Do you want to breah oil smoke?

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LA47
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I know nothing about this so probably shouldn't post. However hubby has some working knowledge of oil burners and said that if the burner has a forced draft it should burn as clean as possible. Something like the oil furnaces use. No matter what way you heat your homes, greenhouses etc. the source of whatever is making the the heat is causing pollution somewhere. (other than the heat from your compost :wink: )
High Altitude Gardener zone 4B or 5A

cynthia_h
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Calculating carbon footprint, energy outputs, etc., can get pretty complex. One of the reasons a lot of pollution became so extreme before being corralled (rivers catching fire, bodies of water drowning their own fish from lack of oxygen) is that damage to the environment originally wasn't factored in at all, and later it was found to be a highly complex situation subject to many interpretations.

Which is where we are now.

If you were to make a single trip from your island, by ferry, to the mainland to take the used oil to a recycler, that would indeed be wasteful of petro-energy, net. Which is why so many energy-conscious organizations urge drivers to incorporate "trip-linking" into their lives. Trip-linking seems pretty normal to me and, I'm sure, to most people:

1) If you're driving to X location, make sure you do everything necessary at that location at one go so that you don't have to drive there twice.

Pretty simple, yes?

2) Second step: While you're driving to X, be sure to do anything you need to do en route on that same trip so that you don't have to drive there twice.

Then, the last step of trip-linking is planning ahead:

3) "What am I likely to need to do soon along this route?" And look at short side routes which, on their own, would be uneconomical of your time, money, and petro-energy, but when added to steps 1) and 2) make more sense.

You probably do this already, living on an island, so just keep the oil until a regularly scheduled trip within a reasonable distance of the recycler and *then* take it there. OR as advised above, use it for your own purposes in a clean burner without having to drive anywhere.

In either case, you'll be acting responsibly.

Making a good decision is better than 1) not making any decision or 2) stalling because a perfect decision seems out of reach. (Ask me how I know this....)

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

DoubleDogFarm
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Making a good decision is better than 1) not making any decision or 2) stalling because a perfect decision seems out of reach. (Ask me how I know this....)
Hey, No teasing :lol: I'm listening.

Eric

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tomf
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I drive a small car that gets close to 50mpg to work and park next to 4 door one ton Pickups, some of the people that drive the PU's cry about the cost of gas. When they cry to me I just tell them it is supply and demand and you are the reason it is high. We always plan our trips when we drive.

DoubleDogFarm
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I was mainly looking for information / comparison. Used oil as heating oil vs. recycling.

No one has mention the conversion cost. How is used oil made usable?

To answer "Do you want to breath oil smoke". That is easy to answer, No. Can I compare this to 2 cycle engines. How many of you have traded your 2 cycle lawn equipment in for the 4 stroke engines.

Eric

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rainbowgardener
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I traded my manual push mower in for a solar powered rechargeable battery electric when the push mower got too difficult (it doesn't do a very good job on uneven ground and though our lawn is small, much of it is sloped).
Twitter account I manage for local Sierra Club: https://twitter.com/CherokeeGroupSC Facebook page I manage for them: https://www.facebook.com/groups/65310596576/ Come and find me and lots of great information, inspiration



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