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GardenRN
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I didn't mean to....I swear

I wasn't going to slip into that prepper mess. Not gonna do it....Not gonna do it. And then I did it.

I got a food grade barrel and figured it would be a nice bit of water to have for storage, just in case. I've been through hurricanes and stuff where I didn't have water for a week, luckily my family prepared. Then I thought, if I had water, surely it wouldn't hurt to have some first aid stuff too. Like a serious first aid kit, not the crappy ones I have from walmart.

......Then, if I have all that wouldn't it just be smart to have one more barrel with some non-perishable food items. In case a storm or something happens to catch us right before a shopping trip or something?

You see where this went. In my head, the scenarios grew in intensity and length, the length of time I'd be hunkered down (or bugged in, I now find is the "prepper" term) in my house grew, and the complexity of what I'd need expanded to bullets and seeds, and water purification.

Oh no :oops:

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rainbowgardener
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Seems like when you start thinking about bullets you've crossed some kind of line... Now you are talking about scenarios where there's no food available for the foreseeable future and you are trying to hunt? Or worse where society has broken down completely and you are trying to protect what you have from roving bands of used-to-be humans?

Nope. Not saying none of that could happen, but I'm not going there. You know the law of attraction? The more emotional/mental/physical energy you devote to thinking about/planning for anything, the more you attract it to you? Any of those doomsday scenarios come along, I don't want to be here any more any way, so I'm not devoting any energy to it.

There's common sense (first aid kits) and there's obsessive negativity... Within the limits of common sense, I prefer to stay focused on the positive, working for, planning for, trying to make happen desireable outcomes.

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GardenRN
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Well I haven't gone as far as to get the bullets. I do have a pretty good supply anyways, but only because I caught them on sale a couple times at a small sporting goods store right up the street from me. I mostly just use the bullets for target shooting. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiif it got so bad people were trying to break into my house and steal my food and stuff I'm not saying they wouldn't become targets lol. However, I doubt it would get that far. I mean how far would it get before another country just stepped in and said ok, we'll take over, and now we have control over this that and the other. And if it were that dire, I doubt anyone would argue. IDK. It's not so much a doomsday scenario that worries me. I don't think armageddon (how come the spell check is calling me out on that word?) is coming any time soon. But the economy tanking so bad that people start resorting more and more to thievery for basic necessities? Or a sudden insane hike in food prices over oil prices or something....IDK. Possible. I don't know of the likelihood of it. But I doubt it would be THAT much of a stretch. ou can only fight of debt with more borrowing for so long. Most people learn that in early adulthood, the fed seem to want to keep trying.

BUT, to avoid a political rant. My focus seems to be more on food and water and basic supplies, and then for an expanding length of time, more than guns and ammo.

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GardenRN
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Side note: I think the biggest reason this appeals to me is the self-sustainability factor. Just that thing some people want to know about "if I had to make it totally on my own, COMPLETELY, how long could I do it for?" I realize that storing stuff, in a lot of ways, is different from being self sustainable. And the real sustainability test comes when the stored supplies run out. But being trapped with a bunch of seeds doesn't help much considering the growing time of any veggies. I promise I'm not going crazy, probably just too much time and too many interests. :roll:

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LA47
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I believe everyone, if it's within their means, should have 3 to 6 months worth of food. If you have unexpectedly been laid off, or something like Sandy happens, you do have a cushion. I have thought about this and I don't think there is many in the USA that could make it. Most of us don't have the knowledge, nor the situation, our founding fathers had. How many of us live on, or near a lake or stream that is clean enough to drink the water or woods close enough to get enough wood for heat and cooking.? I also think, if the US collapsed, within 6 months we would be learning a new language!

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tomf
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Do not forget your generator, I put one in last year.



[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/House/Gen.jpg[/img]

Some of the wiring I had to do, the small box is a transfer switch.
[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/House/power2.jpg[/img]

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rainbowgardener
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A back up generator probably falls in the common sense category in this day and age, not that I have one. As for the rest que sera sera... Having skills is generally a good thing. Sustainability for 350 million people in this country is just not possible. Sure all those founding fathers and mothers were much better at feeding themselves and much more independent than we are. In 1800, according to the census, the population of the US (which counted white people and slaves, probably did not include Native Americans) was 5.3 million. The land could easily support that many. Now there's half again that many people just in New York city.

If transportation systems and petroleum based agriculture break down, they are just doomed.

I save my energy for working on things that I can do something about, that make a positive contribution, like reducing my carbon footprint.

And no I won't do bullets. I'm a Quaker, a vegetarian, and a pacifist. I don't eat anything that would need to be killed with bullets and I would never fire a bullet at a human. If that means I don't survive, then it is a world I don't want to survive in. Mere survival is not the highest value in my book. Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it say survive at all costs...

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GardenRN
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tomf wrote:Do not forget your generator, I put one in last year.
you're assuming A: that you will be able to get gasoline to run the generator, and B: that it will be affordable.

For a little more than that generator I can have solar power, enough to run necessities. And if the sun isn't there, then God is doing some major renovations and I'm not planning on sticking around anyways.

Dillbert
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the only preppers that are going to survive "the worst case" are those people _already_ located so remote no one knows they are there and who have already learned how to live/forage off the land.

native Alaskan people, some in Siberia, some in the rain forests.

the rest of us are doomed.
NYC has some roughly 20 million inhabitants in the five boroughs - you're gonna need more bullets.

cynthia_h
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For storm / earthquake / "ordinary" disaster preparation, I think we've learned from Hurricane/Superstorm Sandy that having those supplies in the basement--or anywhere belowground--isn't a good idea. The hospitals whose generators were in the basement LOST POWER. Hospitals!!! Incredible. Of course, anyone whose stored food was downstairs in the basement also lost that, esp. on Staten Island or in northern New Jersey. :(

In the news out here the first weekend after Sandy first came ashore, it became widely known that our hospitals, most of which (on both sides of the Bay) are built within 1 mile of an earthquake fault (look at the topography and you'll see why), also have their generators belowground. :shock: Having anything belowground is hard to arrange out here, since it's not the usual practice to build anything *with* a basement; you have to specially design it! :roll: So those Bay Area hospitals whose emergency generators are in the underground parking, basement utility areas, etc., are now reconsidering their emergency plans, big time.

Anyone dependent on electrically powered medical equipment who doesn't have a generator *and* back-up fuel on hand is courting disaster.

Municipal and other regional disaster-response coordinators made announcements a few days after the hospital news came out--when so many people up North still didn't have power after 7 or 8 days--that Bay Area residents should plan on at least 5 to 7 days' worth of water, medications, and other essential supplies (food that doesn't need cooking, for instance, like dried fruit, crackers, canned foods). Previous recommendations had been for 3 days' worth. (Don't forget to have a [basic] plan for sanitation.)

Remember pets in your disaster plan; not every human evacuation shelter will accept them, even after the horrible, heart-rending scenes from Katrina in 2005. :evil: (OK, back away from the "Shelter" topic, Cynthia...slowly back away....) At a minimum, one carrier for each cat and a crate, leash, and collar for each dog. Be sure to crate-train your dog(s) as a matter of course, before an emergency arises. That way, he'll seek out the crate naturally as a haven/refuge in time of need. :) A minimum of 5 to 7 days of water, medications, and food for the pets, too.

Frankly, I had never heard the term "prepper" until the recent discussions here. I've always heard the term "survivalist" applied to the people who seemed to be under discussion.

My situation: I'm a scratch cook with some health problems and a very erratic employment situation (I work on call for my employer, who doesn't feel much loyalty to me). DH has a job, but his job alone isn't enough to keep us going in the very expen$ive Bay Area, esp. not with the vet bills we've experienced the last couple of years. So...I make sure we have scratch ingredients on hand at all times, to ensure the lowest-cost food for those times when I have no work at all. (I'm also an ace dog and cat groomer, so my animals don't need to go to a shop, which saves moolah.) I keep maybe a month, six weeks' worth (just estimating here) of "scratch" ingredients. I don't plan it out like that, though; I just buy chicken when it's at the lowest price, good flour at the lowest price, etc., and plan to make chicken soup from scratch, chicken stock from scratch (no onions; that way I can also use it in cooking for the dogs), bread, my own granola with rolled oats, and so on, whenever I have no work--and thus have the time. I could keep going that way for quite a while, and DH has always liked my scratch cooking. But, of course, this set-up is geared for financial problems, not for a disaster where there's no natural gas to cook with (yes, my stove is gas). Electricity would be dodgy to do without, but losing my gas service would be crippling--that's my cooking! My hot water for tea, soup, hand-washing essential items, etc.

Hmm. Sounds like I need to get up to speed on a solar oven. They're reputed to work even on cloudy days, although not in raging downpours.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

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tomf
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My generator is not for an end to the world scenario but because I do live out there and we sometimes lose power in storms. I am responding to being prepared for normal emergencies not end of times ones. No amount of food storage will get any on through any disaster that ends most of humanity. Futurists have predicted many possibilities for what will happen in our future some of them are not ones I hope happen. The human race needs to think in terms of sustainability and future generations and not just think of today. If the was say a nuclear war then it is over any ways as we would either be blown, poisoned by radiation and then thrown into a nuclear winter, so unless you live in a big bunker it would not be good times.

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LA47
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For emergency cooking we have a camper with full bottles of propane. If anyone has a Turkey fryer, that would work for any emergency. Just keep a couple of propane bottles full. It should last for couple of weeks or longer if you are careful. We don't live near any really major bodies of water so we don't worry about flooding but there is a fault line not far away and we've had minor shakes from it.

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digitS'
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Not caring too much about salads, I never ate all that many veggies during the summer months until I started eating quite a bit of rice & noodles.

Huh?

No, you see - that opens up the world of stir-fries. Also, there's noodle soup. Potatoes, carrots and winter squash, I've got . . . too many parsnips & leeks. Frozen stuff . . . oh yeah . . .

Anyway, there's enuf noodles and rice in the kitchen to last weeks and weeks. Right now, all I've got to do is go outside and scoop water off the ground. That's right - it is in a frozen form. This weather would also work to keep the frozen stuff in good shape for what (?), several months.

I don't really need to play ignorant about winter food storage in this environment. I once lived several years without electricity and had what Cynthia might call an "animal crate" but it was to keep animals out. It was sequestered in the wood shed.

Haven't heated with wood for years but there's the propane on the deck and charcoal with a barbeque in the garage. All that's a little too fretful to my nature . . .

What I would hope would be a useful take-away from this ramble is that eating rice and noodles year around is a fairly good back-up plan. First & last, it might really UP your consumption of leafy greens. Oh yeah, several quarts of cooking oil on a bottom shelf is a good idea - that is, unless your neighbor drives a diesel truck and steals it so as to carry his anti-aircraft gun on reconnaissance, downtown.

Steve



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