Old Dog, Old Man.....Nature's course?

[DoubleDogFarm]

When I heard this, made me think, what a strange thing to hear from this trained person.

We moved my 85 year old father to the island last Tuesday, so it will be about a week tomorrow. He's going through a 20 day transition from Life Care Center to assisted living arrangement.

Last night my dog Jacob and I were visiting dad and playing Cribbage. He beat both games, the old bugger. While I was there he had his dinner and shortly after he takes his medications. One of the staff members job is to witness his taking of the pills and doesn't leave until so. The three of us were talking and waited on dad to take the meds, when she ask about Jacob dog. The usual, how old, what breed etc....and I brought up Addison disease. Jacob has Addison's. For over 3 years now, I've been spending about $150. per shot every month. $1800. year.

Anyway, we are maybe finally to the interesting part. She was wonder how I could spend this kind of money? Why not let nature run its course? Maybe Jacob doesn't need the shot? Can you afford this every month? Jacob your buddy isn't he? She said, "My brother is the same, but I wouldn't do it". This whole time she is waiting for my dad to take his meds. I'm thinking, that's her job. Why should her patients pay this kind of money? Why not let nature run its course? Maybe Dad doesn't need this medication? Can he afford this every month? He's your buddy isn't he?

Yes, They are both my buddies, we can afford it, as long as there is quality of life.

Eric

[Kisal]

I think "quality of life" is the key there. I appreciate the fact that Oregon allows people to have a choice in the matter. If a person wants to fight to the finish, that's great, but it's also fine if they prefer to avoid extreme suffering.

[thanrose]

Eric, she was probably a med tech, not a nurse. Different states have different regs on who can pass meds in certain types of facilities. Big difference in approach between med tech and nurse. Sort of one is reactive, the other proactive. It does not mean her care for your dad will be any less. She's doing her job which does not include thinking deeply about the meaning of life. And she probably hasn't given another thought to it after telling her lunch mates about the cool dog, and possibly cool son, of one of her patients. (Really love the dog bringers. And all the dogs know me, too. It's good for everyone to see them.)

One of my med techs griped to me on Sunday reactively, "I've gotta strip that bed again." I said, "Cool beans! That means her bladder is still working!" Proactive difference, eh?

Because of the nature of my work, I see a lot of different approaches to end of life. Sometimes a nurse will have to involve a social worker or even a doctor when something is amiss in family dynamics, but generally we'll do more education of the family or client. I have a couple of clients with guardians appointed who control which relatives can visit. Once in a while nurses can differ on the best approach, but I rarely have to step in on a med tech other than as moral support.

That your father can still play cribbage is a good indicator of his dexterity and of his mental acuity, but it says more to me about Jacob! Winning two games, way to go pup!

[thanrose]

Oh, the med tech is making barely above minimum wage, most likely. Pretty hard, busy work, but it's a living. Marginally. She has to think about the kitty she wants to adopt and if she can afford kibble or does she want to go another year without new shoes. $150 a month would be impossible for her, but probably having a 90# dog would be too. I subsidize the food and vet for one of my med techs.

[Green Mantis]

DoubleDogFarm.......She sounds like my mother when she was alive, she thought money spent on animals was a terrible waste. Meanwhile she was running back and forth to the furniture and china stores, buying things that never did make her Happy. You just enjoy your dog! Don't ever feel guilty!! Your dog makes you happy! Her junk sure didn't when she finally went into a nursing home.

[cynthia_h]

It's really quite simple. One spends money on what one values. You obviously value your father and your dog. Good for you!
May they both bring you more years of happiness and companionship.

Amen. Everyone who has been reading this forum since June 2010 knows where my money went if they read the Vergil Chronicles at the end of my posts. It ended up being a lot more money than we really could afford, but we were working under the probability that he would survive, dammit, for several more years once the orthopedics were settled. And that was worth the world to me; he had been my service dog.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Charlie MV]

I get it and I like you DD.

When we were first married and poor our Schnauzer ran under a van. Her front shoulder was crushed. The vet put a ridiculously huge, long cast on her leg and said she'd never walk again normally.

We searched until we found a vet, who for a huge amount of money we didn't have , operated and placed 5 pins in her shoulder. She fully recovered. We paid it off in 5 years.


Our experience with my parent's in assisted living has been eye opening. Pop died 2 years ago at 85. Mom is 90. They moved in 12 years ago. I have watched the place, which is very expensive, grow even more so and offer less and less care and service. Pops last two weeks were awful. He suffered if he missed his meds or they came late. We kept a round the clock vigil to make sure he was properly cared for. 5 days before he died he was resting comfortably. We went downstairs to eat and returned an hour later than his meds were supposed to be administered. He was gasping. We chased down the nurse who told us she was busy and demanded she get his shot to him. He gasped for 5 days and passed.

Watch your father as much as you can. Do not trust the facility to care properly for him. If mom ever becomes incapacitated we have already arranged, at her request, to move her to another place where we can see her daily. She is a healthy 90 year old now and doesn't want to leave her home and friends. But we have learned not to leave an incapacitated parent at the mercy of health care providers alone.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I think "quality of life" is the key there. I appreciate the fact that Oregon allows people to have a choice in the matter. If a person wants to fight to the finish, that's great, but it's also fine if they prefer to avoid extreme suffering.

Kisal, Yes, I need to get my stuff together. Time to concentrate on a living will, power of attorney, directives.

That your father can still play cribbage is a good indicator of his dexterity and of his mental acuity, but it says more to me about Jacob! Winning two games, way to go pup!

thanrose,
Last night my dog Jacob and I were visiting dad and playing Cribbage I went back and reread what I wrote, to funny. The old bugger in this case is dad. My writing skills are atrocious.

Oh, the med tech is making barely above minimum wage, most likely. Pretty hard, busy work, but it's a living. Marginally. She has to think about the kitty she wants to adopt and if she can afford kibble or does she want to go another year without new shoes. $150 a month would be impossible for her, but probably having a 90# dog would be too. I subsidize the food and vet for one of my med techs.

thanrose, You are a good person and life is full of choices. I can relate with going without. Jacob is down to 81.6 pounds

DoubleDogFarm.......She sounds like my mother when she was alive, she thought money spent on animals was a terrible waste. Meanwhile she was running back and forth to the furniture and china stores, buying things that never did make her Happy. You just enjoy your dog! Don't ever feel guilty!! Your dog makes you happy! Her junk sure didn't when she finally went into a nursing home.

Green Mantis, Thank you. I'm more of a utilitarian, no need for nick knacks. Next we have to deal with the parents stuff. Car, RV, House, Personals. First thoughts, I don't want any of it.

Marlingardener, Thank you!

cynthia_h , To the love of Family! Cheers!

Watch your father as much as you can. Do not trust the facility to care properly for him. If mom ever becomes incapacitated we have already arranged, at her request, to move her to another place where we can see her daily. She is a healthy 90 year old now and doesn't want to leave her home and friends. But we have learned not to leave an incapacitated parent at the mercy of health care providers alone.

Charlie MV, Thank you This is why we moved dad to the island. With two of the four boys living here, we can visit him daily.

Thanks everyone for listening.
Eric

[rootsy]

We have a 13 1/2 year old dashound that has congestive heart failure. He was diagnosed 3 years ago. He receives 1 1/2 vetmedin (heart medication) pills a day and 3 lasix (furosimide) pills a day... The vetmedin are over $1 each... 500 lasix are about $60. It adds up but he is my lap dog and we love him. It will all end too soon I am afraid.

Last week, somehow, he injured his back (again) and is now lame. He cannot walk or bear weight. His right side is more or less limp so he's been sequestered to the kennel in the dining room with wee wee pads and towels. He has been receiving steroids each day (prednisone) in the hope that it helps him heal. He has a healthy appetite and isn't mushy nor visibly in pain... but his front legs have no strength. I was up at 4 am cleaning him up and changing his wee wee pads...

My wife has had him since he was 6 weeks old and this is very difficult for her. She cannot bear the thought of having to put him to sleep.

The vet had us start trying to rehab him last night. In the tub as well as on a towel. Hopefully he can recover from this but I have a feeling it is going to be a long journey with no certain outcome.

[Kisal]

Give old Jacob a hug for me, okay? I had to put my sweet Magic dog down when his weight dropped from 150 lbs to 75 lbs. He would no longer eat, and his quality of life was extremely poor. So, I send every old dog I learn about a hug in memory of Magic.

[applestar]

Having read this, I don't want to say nothing, but I don't know what to say...
My thought s are with you....

[DoubleDogFarm]

rootsy,

Sorry to hear about your little buddy. It's a tough call that no one is comfortable making, I'm definitely not.

Applestar, Kisal, Thank you

Eric

[dirtyfingers]

Family is family no matter how many legs they have.

My GF spends a fortune in daily meds for her dog. We spend each Saturday getting the weeks pills in order for morning and evening.

Many years ago, I had to put my last dog down. The vet kept trying to keep her comfortable on the table until it was not reasonable to continue. I didn't care about the cost, just to make sure her last moments were as good as possible.

My father passed away two years ago and was in a local hospital until the end. Being that it was a small town hospital, patient care was very good. I know it might sound morbid, but my brother actually video taped the nurses wheeling my father's now lifeless body into the morgue. When the gurney bumped the doorway, the nurse actually sounded apologetic and said "I'm sorry Mr. -------------.

[digitS']

My daughter has a dog now. She "owned" a dog for several years as a child but the dog lived with her grandparents. DD actually moved so that she could have a dog. This creature so obviously loves her that she is just an adorable little dog.

DW's family never had a dog. Just yesterday was the first time my wife had ever carried a dog. Claimed that she wasn't sure how to do it . DW is coming around because she sees how much this mutt cares about her daughter. She has talked baby talk to the mutt for the last few months now and actually referred to her as cute just yesterday and held her hat for shade so that she could lie between us on the pickup seat as we came home from the garden.

As a kid, I used to think that I wanted to be a vet but felt that I couldn't handle the pain animals are in sometimes. What I've learned tho', is that vets are treating the pet as much for the sake of the owners as the animal. Dogs have short lives compared to humans but they really care for us despite our weaknesses and flaws. (Not that Eric has any weaknesses and flaws!) Often, we care back - I still remember that from owning dogs and having dogs, own me .

I am amazed that some people can spend thousands of dollars on entertainment centers, vacations to distant places and gambling. But, some of these people would never think to own a dog. Fortunately, DW isn't a person like that. She just never thought she wanted to have a dog around.

We often puppy-sit DD's dog. She brings us happiness even tho' she isn't very inclined to play or even minds us worth a darn . Anyone or any animal who loves our daughter so much, can't be discounted. And, she needs our care.

She is "just a little dog" but that is pretty good for DD and that's good enuf for us.

Steve

[DoubleDogFarm]

(Not that Eric has any weaknesses and flaws!)

Oh, I have plenty weaknesses and flaws. Only our Mothers think we are perfect.

Thanks Steve. Nice Story