Attenton: Hikers!

[stella1751]

Years ago, one of my friends told me she worried about her son, a weed researcher for a large university. To conduct his studies of the effects of imported plants (weeds) on indigenous species, he purchases or leases large plots deep within the forests of the Pacific Northwest. My friend's concern was that he would come across a heavily guarded marijuana crop and never return.

I thought about this when I read this: [url=https://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/22/expert-sylvia-longmire-mexican-drug-cartels-infesting-us-even/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C210562]"Expert: Mexican Drug Cartels Infesting US, Even Our National Parks,"[/url]. I don't hike, and after reading this, I doubt I will make too many forays deep into our national parks

It also vastly annoys me that they would dare bring their crime up here!

[SPierce]

Years ago, one of my friends told me she worried about her son, a weed researcher for a large university. To conduct his studies of the effects of imported plants (weeds) on indigenous species, he purchases or leases large plots deep within the forests of the Pacific Northwest. My friend's concern was that he would come across a heavily guarded marijuana crop and never return.

I thought about this when I read this: [url=https://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/22/expert-sylvia-longmire-mexican-drug-cartels-infesting-us-even/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C210562]"Expert: Mexican Drug Cartels Infesting US, Even Our National Parks,"[/url]. I don't hike, and after reading this, I doubt I will make too many forays deep into our national parks

It also vastly annoys me that they would dare bring their crime up here!

Even though it's a scary thought, no doubt, IMHO there should be absolutely no reason to worry about going into our national or state parks. It's probably a very rare occurance, and you shouldn't let a fear of something that might happen once in a lifetime keep you from enjoying the beauty of the forests

A lot of it is fear mongering and conspiracies, as is wont to happen in cases like this. Basic safety should always be taken into concern in terms of phone numbers, having people knowing where you're hiking and how long you're hiking for.

[gixxerific]

You will be alright Stella.

All you need it 3 things in that situation.

1. A gun
2. Some papers
3. Matches

Good to go.

[lorax]

Heck, I've run across Coca plantations while hiking down here. The farmers are generally very friendly (on one hike, they actually gave me a cutting to chew on, after I explained that I was pressing for the summit of the mountain) and there's no threat or anything.

Then again, Coca as a plant isn't illegal here.

I'm with Gixx, incidentally. You need a knife and some papers, and a lighter (Gixx, how did you miss the lighter?!?!) but not a gun - it's better if you're not seen as a threat. I would never let the small chance that I might run across a plantation ruin my enjoyment of nature (and I have hiked through grow ops in the Canadian rockies with absolutely no incident.) After all, if you run into a grow op, you can always turn around and go the other way!

I've also got a few choice words about the illegality of MJ, but here is not the place to air them - this is not a political forum.

[stella1751]

I suppose you are all correct, that I am being an alarmist. I grew up in the woods of Northern Idaho. Our property abutted a national park; I think it was Kootenai National Forest. We lived roughly 40 miles north of where the Ruby Ridge affair occurred, 15-20 years later. I spent my days riding horseback through the woods. My parents rarely knew where I was, only that I was in the woods on a horse and probably accompanied by the family dog. Nowadays, I guess wood-dwelling parents would have to keep as close an eye on their children as do parents in the big, wicked city

Maybe I just hate change. I don't have a gun, and my Lewisfield Slugger isn't much protection against assault rifles. I suppose a good dog would work as well

[cynthia_h]

[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=142911#142911]Here's[/url] a thread from June 2010 on a related topic, where someone wanted to establish a garden on some remote property in northern California.

There have been shoot-outs with drug cartels and also, sad to say, MJ growers in northern California, and there have been deaths on both sides within the past several years. (I'm thinking especially of one around Santa Cruz/Santa Clara Counties a year or so ago ATM. )

The weeds investigator should check with local law enforcement, just to be sure, before going into unknown territory. Sad, but wise in these times.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[DoubleDogFarm]

Legalize and tax, just like alcohol.

Eric

[gixxerific]

Legalize and tax, just like alcohol.

Eric

Amen brother we could pay off the national debt

[Kisal]

Legalize and tax, just like alcohol.

Amen brother we could pay off the national debt

Yes and yes! I have no interest in using either substance, but one is no worse or more dangerous than the other. Both should be treated the same. The additional tax source should not be ignored.

[DoubleDogFarm]

but it's the gate way drug to potato chips.

Eric

[Kisal]

As beer is the gateway drug to peanuts and pretzels.

[Dixana]

You guys absolutely kill me. Everyday something on this forum completely cracks me up.

Slightly O/T, but frankly, what annoys me the most about marijuana being illegal is hemp being dragged along with it. Um, hello US Government hemp has 1001 uses and is a highly renewable resource!

[stella1751]

I think you're all on to something here. I am told that my grandfather ran booze from across the border during the Prohibition era. Once the Eighteenth Amendment was repealed, he was out of work. I don't have strong feelings one way or another about the legalization of marijuana. However, it makes sense that if it were legalized, the drug cartels would have to limit themselves to gun running and prostitution, neither of which businesses can be effectively conducted in our national parks.

I wonder whether they use chemical fertilizers on their crops.

[tomf]

but it's the gate way drug to potato chips.

Eric

LOL

[lorax]

I wonder whether they use chemical fertilizers on their crops.

Not necessary. Hemp and MJ grow best in marginal soils with very little attention.

[cynthia_h]

What the investigators have found here in California after discovery of such "plantations" is that toxic herbicides are used to kill competing plants. The herbicides, of course, flow into open waterways. Then the plants are watered with some incredible irrigation systems, pulling from those same waterways--maybe upstream, maybe not.

But we all live downstream of *something.* And many heretofore assumed "clean" park waterways have been found to be highly contaminated with herbicides.

Cynthia

[cynthia_h]

Wow. Talk about timing....[url=https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/04/24/MNO41J376E.DTL&tsp=1]This[/url] article appeared on the front page of today's San Francisco "Chronicle."

Sample quote: "Because water is the No. 1 factor for growers when choosing their sites, chemicals used on illegal grow sites end up in creeks and rivers, Foy said. Habitat destruction is apparent as soon as you walk onto one of the grow sites, he said."

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[stella1751]

Double wow. That's really a frightening article to read for anyone who loves the land. As I was reading it, I was thinking that here was a worthy cause to band together against, visualizing Sierra Club members walking ten feet apart in a mile-long line to find and destroy these fields. Then I read about the booby-trap with the sharpened sticks in it, and I realized a massive search was unlikely to ever occur.

They don't fight by our rules, and based upon the details regarding the destruction of flora and fauna, they are a much greater threat to the environment than any corporate farmer overseen by our government agencies. Worse, because they are transient, planting here one year and there the next year, they don't need to worry about the devastation they leave behind.

These marijuana growers are the new Agent Orange.

[dirtyfingers]

Many decade ago, growers of Maui Wowwie used the desolate hillsides of Maui to grow their crop. The local police were out gunned due to the growers having automatic weapons. The police had to ask for permission to carry automatic weapons for their own defense!

[Green Mantis]

Hate to say it, but they should legalize Prostition as well, also tax that too. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many rapes, abductions, and trafficking in women. Plus the women would be much safer, and medically looked after too.

[Kisal]

I doubt legalizing prostitution would be much of a deterrent to those crimes, since they're related to a need to control women, and actually have little or nothing to do with sex. JMO.

That doesn't mean I'm necessarily against legalization of prostitution. I honestly never gave it a whole lot of thought, because I don't have strong feelings about it one way or the other. [img]https://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh27/Kisal_photos/dunno.gif[/img]

[DoubleDogFarm]

Interesting, both prostitution and mary jane were brought up at the farmers market today. The two I was talking to felt both should be legalized and taxed.

Eric

[Green Mantis]

Kisal, You are right about the controlling of women, but the trafficking in women would probably slow down a lot, the Rapes, well that is control. Some of the abductions, MIGHT??? slow down, but the pediphiles that take women, and children, of either sex, should be jailed and never see the light of day again. As they can't seem to rehabilitate them. At least the women that did want to be prositutes, would be safe and have medical. Would get them off the streets, where it really is dangerous. When things are legalized, the crime bosses wouldn't be making any money off of it. Same as legalizing Mary Jane. Probably lots would try the Mary Jane, then decide it wasn't what they thought it was anyway. The way it is now, they lace it with stuff, to really get people addicited to it. They tax everything else? They really are missing out on these two things. JMHO.

[Kisal]

I don't know. Human trafficking is not always aimed at forcing the victims to become prostitutes. Sometimes, they are sold as slaves. Often the people are sold to serve as domestic help in private homes, but I have read of them occasionally being forced to work in businesses, literally held as captives. The owner of an Asian restaurant in Oregon was arrested for this, in fact. I don't recall all the details, except that the workers were Asian immigrants (I don't know if they entered the country legally or not), didn't speak English, and were never allowed to leave the restaurant.

Legalization of prostitution wouldn't necessarily get prostitutes off the street, either. There are, always have been, and always will be "entrepreneurs" or "free-lance" workers in every field, including prostitution.

Legalizing and taxing prostitution sounds good, because people are inclined to like to legislate morality, especially when it's the other guy's vice-of-choice that they're taxing. Taxes on "vices" are always more popular with the general public than are sales taxes and property taxes. But they can also be hard to collect. Just like a lot of people who work as housekeepers, home health care workers, handymen, yard workers, and so on never report the money they earn on their income taxes. A lot of them don't even file taxes.

People who prey on children; serial killers; people who kidnap others and hold them for ransom or sell them as slaves; rapists; none of these would be affected by legalization of prostitution, because they aren't related in any way.

[Green Mantis]

Kisal, I do understand what you are saying. All I can say is it's a very sad world we live in right now. Seems like nothing is really safe anymore. Glad I grew up when I did, we didn't have to worry about people like that, we could pretty much go where ever we wanted. Sadly for the kids now, it's just not that way.

[DoubleDogFarm]

and don't forget it's hard to tax home grown, but this is true with home distilling and brewed.

Eric

[Kisal]

To get the thread back on topic, I think it's much easier to tax a product, such as marijuana, than it is to track services. A product is a tangible object, and if you sell or buy it, tracking that transaction is usually not too difficult.

Services, OTOH, can always be claimed to be "favors", when in actuality, they are paid for with either money, or bartered for goods or other services. I suppose, though, that a product could be claimed to be a "gift", although it still seems to me that tangible objects are easier to track for the purpose of collecting taxes.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Amungst the chaos, no will notice a few vegetable starts just disappear and a loaf of fresh bread or ravioli ends up under my venders table.


I believe the topic was, never walk in the woods for the fear of the unknown.


Eric