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lorax
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OK, Stella, you've managed to remind me quite acutely of why I moved to the tropics - here, snow is something I can look at from afar, and cold is 40F.

I'm originally from Northern Alberta, whence your famed "Alberta Clippers" - we had extreme snow and extreme winds, and extreme cold. To answer Charlie's question from earlier, all northern Canadians are trained in avoidance and survival from the first day of elementary school - we learned what to do with hypothermia cases almost before we learned the times tables. It's part of the fall curriculum of all schools. We also learned how to survive if you do end up stranded for whatever reason - it's easier in the North where there's accumulated snow, because you can dig yourself into it. On the plains where the wind whips most of it away, it's much harder to survive exposure. :shock:

I recall years when at this time of November, we had about 5 feet of snow and it was 40 below with a howling wind that made it feel like -60. Gardening in Zone 2 ends in August or early September, and we always had tomato plants hanging in the basement to ripen the crop. I know my family never went anywhere without the full survival kit in the trunk - snowshoes, sturdy tow rope, flares, road cones, thermal blankets, full car repair tools, sterno stove, chocolate, and radio beacon (this in the days before cel phones).

Bleh - this whole discussion is making me cold! :? Good thing I live in a no-snow zone now, even though it did hail like all fury yesterday.

Charlie MV
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applestar wrote:Alright Charlie, I HAD to find out what that 9 fingered people ref was :roll: ... And found a blog that quoted the passage from Deliverance by James Dickey. Is that it? It sounds like your kind of a novel. :wink:
Deliverance was filmed about 60 miles from here. Except for Burt Reynolds and the other guys in the boats, they used no actors at all.

That's one reason I want to leave this place but good gawd, these people are telling me that unless I can enroll in a first grade class, I wont survive the first five minutes of the first winter.

I guess I'll stay here. At least I know which woods to stay away from.

FWIW, James Dickey taught part time at the University of South Carolina.

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stella1751
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lorax wrote:OK, Stella, you've managed to remind me quite acutely of why I moved to the tropics - here, snow is something I can look at from afar, and cold is 40F.

I'm originally from Northern Alberta, whence your famed "Alberta Clippers" - we had extreme snow and extreme winds, and extreme cold. To answer Charlie's question from earlier, all northern Canadians are trained in avoidance and survival from the first day of elementary school - we learned what to do with hypothermia cases almost before we learned the times tables. It's part of the fall curriculum of all schools. We also learned how to survive if you do end up stranded for whatever reason - it's easier in the North where there's accumulated snow, because you can dig yourself into it. On the plains where the wind whips most of it away, it's much harder to survive exposure. :shock:

I recall years when at this time of November, we had about 5 feet of snow and it was 40 below with a howling wind that made it feel like -60. Gardening in Zone 2 ends in August or early September, and we always had tomato plants hanging in the basement to ripen the crop. I know my family never went anywhere without the full survival kit in the trunk - snowshoes, sturdy tow rope, flares, road cones, thermal blankets, full car repair tools, sterno stove, chocolate, and radio beacon (this in the days before cel phones).

Bleh - this whole discussion is making me cold! :? Good thing I live in a no-snow zone now, even though it did hail like all fury yesterday.
Ah. I forgot about the short, thick candle and cigarette lighter in a metal coffee can . When I was living in South Dakota, 15 miles from town, I always had one of those behind the back seat in my pickup. Supposedly, you can heat an entire pickup cab with one of those. (I never put it to the test.)

Yes, chocolate, but it never lasted 8)
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tedln
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Stella,

A roll of toilet paper stuffed into a metal coffee can and saturated with rubbing alcohol always made a nice emergency heater for me. The blue flame burned low without a lot of noxious fumes for about three hours. When the alcohol was about gone, you put the lid on for a second and snuffed out the flame. Poured more alcohol in and lit it again.

Ted
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stella1751
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Ted, it's 9 degrees outside right now, and the heater is running like a banshee. Forecast lows for most of the upcoming week are in the single digits, with highs in the upper teens. I'm now eyeing my toilet paper with a thought to alternative energy. Who needs gas heat or even solar power when you have readily available Charmin?
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tedln
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Stella,

It works! Pour the alcohol until the can is about 1/2 full. Sit the can in a metal cake pan or deep fry pan so the pan will catch the alcohol if you spill it. Keep another pan handy that can be turned upside down over the first pan to extinguish the flame if you spill it. The toilet paper will act as a wick. I've never used them in my house and I'm not sure I would. I have used them in tents and under shelters where I could exit fast. You need to always be aware that it is an open flame and not sit anything else on fire. Rubbing alcohol is mostly water with some alcohol in it. When the alcohol burns away in the can, the paper is still damp with water and doesn't burn. You can hear the moisture popping a little as it turns to steam at the top of the paper roll. Most of the water evaporates as it burns with a low, blue flame.

If all your fire wood is wet, you can sit one under a grill out side and boil water over it for soup or tea or coffee. Works well.

I've also used two small hibachi's in my fireplace with charcoal to help heat the house and cook over when we lost power for a week during an ice storm. All the fumes and smoke went out the chimney, but the hibachi's radiated a little heat into the room.

I
Ted
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Thoughts on Winter; it is cold.

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:lol: Where I live, it's mostly wet! We're supposed to have some snow over the next 2 days, though. I still haven't gotten managed to find time to cover the foundation vents around my house. That's probably how I'll spend this afternoon. :roll:
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stella1751
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Here's a thought on winter: I hate it! It's -1 outside right now. The forecast high for today is 9. While outside this morning, I heard a loud cracking noise come from my car. I'm betting that pit in my windshield is in the process of cracking. If so, I am hoping all that snow on it doesn't cause the windshield to cave in. Grrrr :evil:

I suppose this is why Casper is ranked in the top five worst winter cities by the Old Farmer's Almanac.
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It is a necessary EVIL!
Live, Love and have a caring heart. Because tomorrow my be to late.

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tomf
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Lorex in the Boston area and we had simular training, although way up north it is much colder.

My parents had a house on a lake in NH, it was our week end retreat. I was friends with all the locals and in the winter if the ice was blown clear of snow we would drive down the boat ramps and go for a spin on the ice.

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stella1751
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tomf wrote:My parents had a house on a lake in NH, it was our week end retreat. I was friends with all the locals and in the winter if the ice was blown clear of snow we would drive down the boat ramps and go for a spin on the ice.
We lived on a lake in Northern Idaho when I was a child. I was the fifth of six daughters, with the older ones all in high school and, I suppose, real babes. The local boys would drive their muscle cars out onto the lake and do cookies in front of the house. Dad would stand at the window, glaring down at them and muttering, "It'll serve 'em right if they go through the ice."
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doughnuts. :wink:

Charlie MV
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We're anchored in 150 feet of water. It's 50 degrees heading for 40. We're watching NCIS on the DVR. It will be 60 degrees tomorrow. This situation makes some people nervous. particularly being anchored in deep water. But I gotta say highs of 9 degrees and lows below zero scare me to death.


I'll sleep like a baby tonight. It's blowing, we're rocking, happy happy joy joy.

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Cuz Charlie,

I truly envy you. Nothing like rocking yourself to sleep on a rocking boat anchored away from all the hub-bub and noise. We are in a motel room in East Texas getting ready to pull our ATV out to the forest and ride all day. It is about 35 degrees outside. We will be all bundled up like kids getting ready to ride a slide down a snowy hill. This is what I enjoy. I hope you and my other cuz's had a very nice Thanksgiving.

:D

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We get some nasty winter storms and some times we loose power, we lost it for a over a week one year as a bunch of trees fell across the wires. Our road has underground utilities but a ways down the road they are on poles. I have even had to chainsaw my way out to the road.
This winter we decided to install a generator. i made a shed for it and then ran wires. The wiring goes from the transfer box to the breakers. The system takes over individual breakers and their circuits. As you can see it is quite a wiring job I have about a day or so more wiring to do.

[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/House/Gen.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/House/power2.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/House/wires1.jpg[/img]

A second breaker box i had to run wires to.



[img]https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/twistedtomf/House/_DSC0020.jpg[/img]

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Tom,

I can't tell what size generator your installing. I have two Honda EU 2000i, units which can be operated in parallel. They do a good job and are very, very quite.

Did you install the double pole, double throw, switch to prevent your generator power from going up the utility line in case a crew is working on the line while your generator is running. Most utility companies require their installation when you install a backup generator. I love the neat way you wired it in.

A friend of mine just built a new house with a large safe room complete with supplies to last a month. He found a 15000 KW diesel powered gen set on Craigs List for $2500.00. It was in almost new condition. He built a safe room for the gen set and stored enough diesel to run the generator for one month.

Many people in Texas are preparing to fight a war when the violence spills over from Mexico. They want their families to have a safe place to stay when the fighting starts. I know that sounds crazy, but many people living along the border expect it to happen.

Ted
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Ted it sounds like you are not to far from the border. It is crazy what is going on down there. The box that sits on top of the wall in the photo of the wiring is a transfer switch and it prevents sending power down the line.

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The last time I installed a transfer switch, it alone cost around $350.00. Have they come down in price any? Were you lucky enough to find a used one?

I live far enough from the border that I am little effected by the problems. I have friends who live near the border and are greatly effected. Compute the fact that two cities, Juarez Mexico and El Paso Texas are separated only by a narrow little open sewer ditch called a river and a few border patrol agents. In Juarez the murder total for the year is 6000. In El Paso, the murder total for the year was 10; but it is quickly rising. The American citizens who live near the border feel as if they are living on the outskirts of Baghdad during the worst days of the war in Iraq and their government doesn't care and has no intention of protecting them.

Many people feel they must protect themselves from the insurgents crossing the Rio Grand fully armed and from the American authorities who will attempt to disarm the citizens but not the insurgents.

Ted
Last edited by tedln on Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ted when is the last time any thing came down in price? So no! All the wire I had to run cost close to that also. But I will get by fine this winter.

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Cuz, she has a 7.6 KW Onan generator that sounds like a Singer sewing machine.

tedln
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Cuz, I like the Onan units. I used to have a slide in camper in the back of a pickup truck. It had a 3 KW generac built in. Sometimes in the hot summer, the wife and I would go to bed with the air conditioner running. In the morning, someone would sometimes come to our camper and complain about the noise of the generator. It was really pretty quite, but I thought I would upgrade to a new Onan they had just started marketing which was supposed to be really, really quite. I ran one at an RV dealership and it was much louder than the Generac I already had. I kept the Generac and started camping farther away from other people.

I'm still scratching my head about the Honeywell genset Tom is installing. I know Honeywell makes great equipment, but I am not familiar with their generators.

I really like the little Honda and Yamaha units. I have two of the Honda 2000 units and they can be carried around like two little suitcases but they make enough power to run air conditioners.

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We have a Honda E something at home for power failures.

It got COLD here . High was 45 low tonight in the low 20s. Our marina lost a water main Friday. We're cruising a few miles for water. We left today on one engine [port engine has a problem and for now I only use it for docking.] got to the alt marina. Wind was whipping at about 30 mph. There was a boat where I needed to be to get water. I tried to use both engines to muscle her around and back down the other side.

We were in white caps and 4 footers and I just couldn't keep the bow into the wind while trying to make the swing to back in. Can't rev the port engine. I bailed and we headed for home....waterless. I mean dayum it was cold. We were broadside to the wind and it made a 40 foot 30,000 lb boat list 5 degrees.

When we made the turn to home it was into the head wind with a bit of a starboard quarter. Our eyes were watering. That doesn't happen much here. It took two passes to get her snugged back home waterless and on one engine. I wouldn't have thought twice about this all in warmer weather. I made the admiral put on a life jacket to deal with the lines. That's rare.

It was an exciting cold and waterless day. We're giving up and heading home tomorrow. Hope our marina has water by next weekend.

tedln
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Yea Charlie, it got cold here last nigh also. I think the temp is currently 27 degrees. Only into the forties today. We always sleep with the heat turned off in the house with a sheet and light blanket pulled up. We keep a heavier blanket folded at the end of the bed. It got so cold last night, I was freezing so bad I didn't want to reach down and pull the warmer blanket up. The wife pulled it up sometime during the night. She said I looked like a bear hibernating for the winter, rolled up like a ball under the blanket.

How big is your fresh water holding tank? I would have thought 150 gallons on a boat that size because the weight is normally used as ballast. We have a 36 foot, fifth wheel trailer with 45 gallon fresh, gray, and black water tanks. 45 gallons of fresh will last us about one week with both of us taking showers every day. I'm surprised you ran out of water in a little more than one week.

Is your boat single screw or double screw? If it is double screw, I can understand the problems you were having steering into and across the wind. Your boat becomes more like a sail or kite when powering against the wind. I wouldn't even want to anchor in that kind of wind even if both engines were working and I had plenty of water.

I hope you make it home okay on the single engine.

Ted
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Charlie MV
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Cuz, she's twin 454s. Maneuvering in tight quarters is what she and I do best. I just couldn't run the port engine for long and I couldn't throttle up enough to muscle around with the wind to our bow.

Tank-age is about 100 gallons fresh and 100 black water. Gray water goes in the lake. That's dish water and other sink water for the environmentalists.

We can shower twice and do two days worth of face and dish washing. Of course it's a navy shower. Turn on the water, turn it off, lather up, turn on water to rinse. So we basically make 2 and a half days on a hundred gallons and in the navy I was taught to never skip showers. Boats are close quarters :shock:

We made it back to the home marina . I love boating in adverse conditions like high wind and waves. I don't much like that combination in very cold weather. We run strictly at night in the summer because of the heat. Winter is our busiest cruising time because it's usually 55 or 60 and just perfect for a sweater.

The admiral confessed that when I tried to swing and back down on the gas dock yesterday it scared her. I aborted without her saying a word but 4 footers and whitecaps are intimidating while backing down on a twin engine boat with one of them being lame.

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If you have twin screws with an engine driving each and you lose power on one screw; it really messes up your steering ability. If you have a single screw right in the middle with the engines in tandem, all you lose is power with one engine down. I don't know how you are set up, but with twin screws, trying to back up to a dock on a single screw in high wind would be a nightmare. I'm glad you are okay.

Ted
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Charlie MV
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Twin engines. Twin screws. One down. Whitecaps and high wind and very cold. Nightmare is the right word.

One engine has a bad cylinder so I'm only using it a low revs for docking. Shouldn't have gone out at all but we wanted water. I've done stupider.

tedln
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454 Chevy big block. One cylinder down. Do you know if it is a broken compression ring or a scoured cylinder wall? Have you run a compression test? Maybe it's just a burned valve. If its just rings, you can probably pull the heads and re-ring it in place. Depends on if you can get the oil pan off. Probably easier to just pull the engine. If the cylinder wall is scoured, you will probably need to pull the engine and line the cylinders or buy a short block. Wish I lived closer to you. I love to rebuild engines. You have all the torque wrenches and the tape to check the main bearing clearances? Sounds like a great winter project.

Ted
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tomf
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Charlie do you cruze the in land water way? It looks like it would make for some good boating.

Charlie MV
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Tom , we lived aboard in Charleston and cruised both the intercoastal and off shore for 4 years. My wife's mother became ill and we put the boat up for sale and added on to her house 3 years ago and took care of her until last March when she died.

It was actually our good luck that the boat didn't sell. We moved her to a large inland lake near Columbia. We spend 3 days a week aboard most weeks. The lake is dotted with islands, blessed with pleasant weather 9 months a year and we bake in the summer.

Cuz, my talents are limited to the boat electrical , plumbing , and simple systems. I am pretty much a mechanical moron. I do wish you were nearby. My mechanic needs to put another kid through school so it's okay either way.

I am a retired cabinet shop owner. I have refitted the interior with cherry and walnut paneling and cabinets spiced up with lots of inlay. but that's the limit of my ability.

tedln
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Cuz,

I love anything mechanical or electronic. I also love wood working, but I don't have the patience to do detail work in wood. I could never build a cabinet because I don't have the patience to saw a straight line. Close enough is good enough for me.

I spent my life in Engineering and sales with the big equipment they use in Refinaries, Chemical plants, and oil & gas production. I like to make things work that don't work. Also pretty heavy into the chemistry used in refinaries and chemical plants. Now I am a gardener with a lot of hobbies.

Oh well, we all came from somewhere.

Cuz Ted
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stella1751
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Happiness is excellent timing! Early this morning, I went out to do my grocery shopping before the holiday shoppers clogged the streets and store. As I was leaving the store, fat, heavy, wet snowflakes began to fall. Now, an hour later, the ground is covered with a thick layer of snow, the kind that grabs at tires and snarls up traffic, and the snow is still falling.

By half-an-hour, I managed to miss the initial new-snow fender benders, and I won't need to deal with the post-snow muck. Hah! Sometimes things work out beautifully :lol:
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

tedln
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Stella,

I lived in snow country enough years to have mixed emotions. I loved the snow when the big flakes would flutter to the ground. I would always think to myself "how beautiful, how peaceful".

An hour later, I would be driving on the roads trying to not get involved in one of those bumper car derby's. I think one of the most sinking feelings is when you have almost reached the top of a snowy or icy hill, and the vehicle stops and then slowly starts sliding back down the hill. You have no control over it and you are just along for the ride.

Another sinking feeling is when you check out of a ski lodge near the top of a mountain and the desk clerk tells you "be careful driving down the mountain. The snow plows have been pushing the snow off the side of the road and all the edge markers are under snow. We have already lost a few cars this morning when the drivers wheels went over into the soft snow and they rolled down the mountain". You get a little sick at your stomach thinking about what may be ahead of you.

Ted
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stella1751
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We wound up having a significant snow in Wyoming yesterday, I'd guess 6" of the heavy stuff. We get maybe three or four of those a winter, tops. This much snow in dry Wyoming generally translates into 18" to 24" once the system hits the Midwest.

After the snow is done falling, the sky clears, and the temperatures drop. The snow furrows in the road freeze, and it's like driving an unpaved country road after a wet spring: frozen ruts and pot holes sharp enough to slice the sides of a tire and hard enough to break the bead if you hit 'em just right. If you're foolish enough to bounce a low-slung vehicle across them, you can rip off your muffler or puncture your gas tank.

That soft stuff the plows leave at the side of the road during the first pass after a snow is gooey, like bread dough. It grabs your tires with snowy tentacles and does its darnedest to drag you off the road. I fear it, especially when there's a steep drop-off into a canyon, arroyo, or ravine on that side.

Once the snow hardens and the plows make their second or third pass, you have to make some tough choices when passing oncoming vehicles on roads narrowed by the snow drifts at their sides. How much clearance do I have? If you err to the left, you create a dangerous situation for the car coming at you, which must swerve to avoid collision. If you err to the right, you chance bouncing off a snow boulder, smack dab into the oncoming traffic.

I'm legally blind in my left eye, which makes that kind of driving a nightmare for me. Without fail, I either over-compensate or under-compensate. Either way, by the time I reach my destination, my fingers are curled like claws from gripping the steering wheel so hard, and my shoulders ache from the tension of the drive.

On a good day, I fear mountain driving, with its inclines and declines and hairpin curves and steep drop-offs and semi's in a tearing hurry, no matter what the road conditions. Driving mountain roads after a snow ranks top on my list of things that frighten the holy bejeebers out of me.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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I want snow! it's already January and no snow yet. :( I mean if it has to be cold then it should be fun. i hope we get some snow really soon because i have tons of ideas for things to build.
The sky is falling! Oh wait. It's only snow. =D

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stella1751
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We've been having a snowy winter this year in Wyoming. You never know what to expect. About a week ago, 1" was forecast. I decided to do my grocery shopping early that morning, just in case. By the time I got home, the snow had begun to fall. By the time I had put my groceries away, I couldn't see across the street for all the snow that was sheeting down. We wound up with a solid snow, maybe 6", and I was patting myself on the back for the rest of the day 8)

The world's gone crazy, weather-wise, up here. I'm hoping a cold, snowy winter translates into a warm, dry spring.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein



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