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[tomf]

We have a large number of diverse people here some grow plants in pots in their house and some are actual farmers, we all have one thing in common; we love to see things grow.

I have gardened and tried different methods of gardening over the years and right now I am doing a till method. I then work some of my rows into mounded beds. As my soil improves I expect better results but so far I think I am doing well.

I get a number of advice from people who live in the city as what I should do, I listen to them as some of it may be good but it is amazing how many experts there are that have never done what I do all the time and want to tell me what I should be doing. I do not mean to come off harsh but some of it is actually silly, I am polite to them and some times I even take the time to tell them the reasons what they are saying would not work for me. Of course every once in a while some one has a good idea I may use, I try to keep an open mind but then stuff leaks out.

[Ozark Lady]

I have a 7 year old grand child, and when she learns a fact, she has to tell everyone, educate everyone... even though she barely knows her fact. But, armed with a little knowledge...

Each bit that we learn is like a new revelation to us, and we gotta tell someone, and we are so proud of what we just learned!

You know the one thing that I just don't get?
So many gardeners will say... no shade on your garden at all, all day full sun. I can't do that, nothing will survive. And I just don't get it, I just can't connect the dots... is that only at certain elevations? is that with real garden soil? I can see that the north gets long days, but they get less intensity of sun, but folks about the same on the north south scale some need alot of sun, and some do better with less. Why?
Is it elevation? I have some plants in full sun, I water them daily, I feed them, I do all I can for them, and they are dying. I have plants in 8 hours of sun, and they are prospering, with less watering, less feeding, why? and I have some plants, that I got too close to the peach tree, they are growing and fairly healthy, but not fruiting so great, with that amount of shade. The peach limbs are drooping under the weight of the fruit, otherwise they wouldn't be shading those plants.

Also I hear, plow that dirt, get it ready to receive water, water can't enter hard crusted soil. But, unless you are going to water it immediately, doesn't breaking up the soil, cause faster moisture loss? I just don't get it. Then you have no till... how does the water get through that hard crust? And a lady told me, (she was standing in my garden) get rid of that mulch, it is preventing water from getting to the plants. Another visitor said: You see those rocks? Don't you know plants can't grow in rocks? Get that dug and get those rocks outta there.

Sheesh!

[applestar]

Ozark Lady, those are interesting (well troublesome to you ) issues, and would make excellent individual threads that we can tackle together if you'd like to....

[tomf]

Cofusedashell say’

An open mind let’s learning in, we often learn from others but we must trust our self’s in what we have learned.

There is no pert like an expert.

I like this one; Experience leads to good judgment that leads to good decisions.
But experience often comes from bad decisions.

One thing about people with extreme views is they are not open minded and believe their way is the only way, therefore as much as they think they are, they are not enlightened.

I think a bit of laughter every day will make you happier and healthier, so this was my little bit to make you all healthier and lighten your burdens.

Whenever I do some thing new to me I read about it and do some research on it, then I find people who have done it and ask them about it. I am not afraid to say I do not know some thing as admitting ignorance about some thing is the first steep in curing it. We are all ignorant of some thing, just different things.

If I get any deeper I may have to start my own cult, hay that may work out good for my bank account. Ok send me $39.99 plus shipping and I will send you nothing and put you at level 12. And your vegetables will all be happy. If you eat happy vegetables you will be happy and will not need drugs. Hay that last part may be true!

[Ozark Lady]

Have I ever told the story of the old man, the boy, and the donkey?

It bears repeating:
An old man, a boy and a donkey were travelling companions.
They walked into town A: and folks were shocked that the poor little boy was walking, with a perfectly good donkey right there.

So they walked to the next town B: and just before entering town the boy got up on the donkey. and folks were shocked that the boy would ride and that poor old man had to walk.

So they walked to town C: and just before entering the man and the boy got up on the donkey. And folks were shocked at the inhumane treatment of the poor donkey.

So they walked to town D: and the old man picked up the boy, and the donkey and carried them into town. The whole town gathered to laugh and point at the sight of this fool.

Moral of the story, you can't please everyone, so you just pick your poison and let the chips fall. So the three just continued walking, and no one carried anyone at all!

[tedln]

As we were riding some of the beautiful valleys in the high mountains of Colorado last month, I kept thinking about the beautiful, lush gardens that could be grown in that environment. As I thought about it, I realized the soil is great, the temperature is perfect, but crops can't grow here. The season is simply to short. The only thing that can grow is wild flowers and their season is very short.

I think growing a garden is a combination of not to little and not to much sunlight, good soil, sufficient moisture, and planting the right crop in the right place. I wish I could grow brassicas, but I can't. I have very short periods in the spring and fall that are perfect for brassicas, but those periods are simply to short for a successful crop to grow. I also have an abundance of the brassica pests just waiting for me to try. I have the perfect climate for growing tomatoes with an early spring, long summer, and an autumn climate slowly receding into winter. The only problem I have is a killer mid summer heat which puts my entire garden into a heat induced stupor or kills it. The summer heat/intense sunlight can be accommodated if I wanted to utilize shade cloths over the veggies.

I think you are fortunate to have a garden which can utilize plants requiring full sun, partial sun, or even low sun under the trees. I don't worry much about what others say about mulch in my garden (I don't use it), rocks in my garden, or anything else. I just do my thing and hope for the best. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Ted

[rainbowgardener]

You know the one thing that I just don't get?
So many gardeners will say... no shade on your garden at all, all day full sun. I can't do that, nothing will survive. And I just don't get it, I just can't connect the dots... is that only at certain elevations? is that with real garden soil? I can see that the north gets long days, but they get less intensity of sun, but folks about the same on the north south scale some need alot of sun, and some do better with less. Why?
Is it elevation? I have some plants in full sun, I water them daily, I feed them, I do all I can for them, and they are dying. I have plants in 8 hours of sun, and they are prospering, with less watering, less feeding, why? and I have some plants, that I got too close to the peach tree, they are growing and fairly healthy, but not fruiting so great, with that amount of shade. The peach limbs are drooping under the weight of the fruit, otherwise they wouldn't be shading those plants.

Also I hear, plow that dirt, get it ready to receive water, water can't enter hard crusted soil. But, unless you are going to water it immediately, doesn't breaking up the soil, cause faster moisture loss? I just don't get it. Then you have no till... how does the water get through that hard crust? And a lady told me, (she was standing in my garden) get rid of that mulch, it is preventing water from getting to the plants. Another visitor said: You see those rocks? Don't you know plants can't grow in rocks? Get that dug and get those rocks outta there.

Sheesh!

Well, all gardening is local, so we all have to figure out what works in our local climates/ soils, etc, not to mention micro-climates in different parts of our property. But about the full sun: As I think gixx pointed out recently, when they say full sun in instructions for a plant, that is specified to mean 6-8 hrs. If you have something sitting in blazing sun 12 or more hours a day, that is full sun +. Some things can handle full sun + and some can't. And of course it varies by the year. This year being so super hot and sunny for us day after day, some plants in my garden were glad to have some shade, that usually wouldn't like it.

The idea of no-till is that you are mulching heavily. which not only helps prevent water loss, but helps keep the soil under the mulch from crusting over. I don't think mulch prevents water from getting to the plants, but you do want to leave a little space around the plant that is mulch free, to help with that, as well as disease prevention and water being held right against the plant. But assuming your mulch is something like leaves or wood chips, not a solid sheet, water will work its way through and will get transferred from wet mulch to soil underneath. It may mean that your soil won't benefit as much from a light sprinkle as it would have, but a good rain will get through just fine.

But of course I hope it's always understood, that unless I'm quoting/ referencing someone else all I can give is my humble opinion. Lots of this is controversial and there's not ONE TRUE WAY.

[specgrade]

Tell us what forum it was and we'll handle the rest.

[Ozark Lady]

I was giving examples of all the "good advice" folks throw around.
Like the 7 year old who just learned a new thing.

I do remove the rocks, and I put them in the paths and between beds to suppress a few weeds. But it would be a 24/7 job to get them all out of there, and more work to the surface all the time. She was looking at a bed that had just been cleared to amend and start over.

I don't mulch too close to plants, I want airflow at the stem, and the mulch to keep the roots in moist soil... but my chickens think mulch is great to scratch aside and get a cool spot to dust in. I have to fix the mulch regularly. But, if I ban the chickens from access to the garden, I have more pest issues.

I also get odd looks for the dishes of water sitting in the beds for the frogs, hey they are my allies in this battle, but I also have to make hiding places for them, since chickens eat them, but by day the frogs hide and the chickens prowl and by night, the frogs go for it.

[tedln]

I understand Ozark Lady. I think when I first started gardening, I tried to follow other folks advice. You need to realize that was before gardening forums existed. It was even before home computers existed. I suppose over the years, I have tried just about everything. I haven't tried peeing on my tomato plants yet. I may just be saving that for next year. Figure out what works for you and go for it.

Ted

[cynthia_h]

I think when I first started gardening, ... that was before gardening forums existed. It was even before home computers existed. ... Figure out what works for you and go for it.

Ted

Yeah, some of us are really ancient, huh? Must be what, 45 or so??? At least, I *think* the Internet became accessible to more people in the early to mid-'90s. 1994 or so? The office I worked in then had email *only* for executives! By 1997, email was required for *everyone* in the company.

Those are my benchmark dates for Internet access/popularity.

The trial / error / new hypothesis method of gardening--which we use even today--is why Jefferson said, "Even though I am an old man, I am a young gardener." He knew that there was so much more to learn, he would never get there, and his notebooks are still used as examples of excellent garden journals.

Cynthia

[Ozark Lady]

I got internet in 2005 and didn't know how to do anything at all.

They said just plug in this and this and go.

I asked go where? How does one get around?

I knew how to punch cards and use the college computer from back in the 70/80's but no idea how to do anything online, or even how to get online... what is an internet explorer and what are you exploring? ha ha

In some ways it was easier back then, you bought a good book, and you picked your spot and made a garden, with just you and the book.

Most folks giving me a hassel about mulch and rocks are new folks who just moved to Arkansas and "know it all already".

It won't take me long to 'educate' them on how stubborn I can be. I will listen, I will nod, and when they come back, I will still do it my way and not their way!

It is awesome outside, only 82 and cloudy, no rain, but good temps.
So, I ran inside to move my potatoes in dehydrator, get my cheese into cheesecloth to drip, and take a half hour break here, and then, it is off to redo the garden. I looked over those beds, and I am simply going to amend them, and get the last of these transplants (from February) out of my house and into the garden. Then I am going to use my cages and shade... do it my way! With full mulch and water jugs!

I am considering sticking some baby ducks or chicks in there... maybe only a few? If I can make the bed secure enough... baby chicks don't dig, so my mulch will be good and they do eat bugs!
Hey, the harlequin bug infested bed... duck city! aha... gotcha... wanna bet I can get them with ducks?

okay, I gotta get this going now that I thought of a way...

[Kisal]

I will listen, I will nod, and when they come back, I will still do it my way and not their way!

Don't forget to smile and thank them for their advice, while you nod! That's my technique. It drives know-it-alls nuts, especially when they see you ignore them and do things your own way!

[tedln]

I think in 1991 or 92, most large corporations had main servers with dumb terminals scattered around the facility. There were a few people who had internet access, but emails cost ten cents each to send or receive over Compuserve or AOL. You couldn't get direct internet access, you had to go through a portal.

My company asked me to evaluate a new device called a "laptop" computer and determine if it had any potential use for a mobil sales force and technical services group. I first refused by telling them the learning curve was to steep. I knew about DOS, but I didn't know DOS. After a few days, I called my boss and said send me that laptop and I will see what it can do. The "laptop" was made by Zenith and weighed 27 lbs. The battery alone weighed 18 lbs.

I had ten days off at Christmas and taught myself DOS and some simple basic computer code. I designed some basic fill in the blank forms that could be saved and emailed. Using DOS commands, I designed a menu which executed batch files to launch programs instead of a GUI.

I really enjoyed computing in those days. Now I think of my laptop in about the same way I think of my garage door opener. It's just a tool that performs a function.

My wife and I were in a shopping mall the other day. She spotted one of those shops that sell games for the computer and asked me why I never go in them anymore. I told her when she used to have to drag me out of the shops, they were selling new software and it was always exciting to find some new software that had never existed before. No one develops new consumer software today.

Ted

[Ozark Lady]

Cheese is dripping, and I decided while stuck at the stove stirring the milk for cheese, might as well fry up the frying cheese and just freeze it as a ready to use!

Anyhow, from 1984 until 1992 we were living without electricity. We did run 12 volt and watch a small camping television occassionally, or kick on the generator to have more power, more lights etc for occassions.

We had power for a year, at a rental, then we moved, and no power again for 4-5 years. I think we have had power here for about the last 7 years of the 15 we have been here.

We were not kicked off of power, we bought land and it was too expensive to run power, so we just waited until it got to us.

Having power just never was that big of a deal to us.
So, if we get rid of power next time, can I use a laptop? tee hee... I know charging it is issue, can you do that on 12 volt?

[applestar]

I don't actually have the devices, but I know there are ALL kinds of ways of charging laptop/notebook computers off the grid. That's what researchers use when they're out in the jungle... or in the Arkansas mountains.

Don't forget solar collector powered chargers too. I always thought those are really neat, but it's not high on my priority list. My regular computer is a little 12" PowerBook because that's what fit in my tiny kitchen-corner planning center, but it lives perpetually plugged in. The cool thing is that when there's a power failure and everything else goes down, my little computer is still humming away.

[tedln]

Ozark Lady,

We have a couple of little adapters that plug into the cigarette lighter receptacle in our vehicles. They convert 12 volt into 110/120 to power our laptops as we travel. We have even used them to make a pot of coffee in the back of our pickup. They can be wired direct into any 12 Volt system. They are easy to find at any electronics store and are fairly inexpensive.

Ted

[Ozark Lady]

I saw the oddest thing today, wish I had had my camera handy.

I was digging around in the bed that I intended to transplant into, kind of levelling it, and finding tulip bulbs that were missed.
I found a tiny white egg, about the size of a green pea. I picked it up, it was warm, warmer than the surrounding soil, and kind of soft.

My grandkids have snakes for pets, one snake laid eggs and the other one had live birth of 12 little snakes. So, I thought I would give the egg to one of them to incubate it. I was guessing ringneck snake or something.

I sat it in the dish that I was putting the tulips in, and later, I moved to another bed, and picked up the dish to move it gathering stuff up to put it all away, and that little egg started jumping and standing on end. Looked like a mexican jumping bean, well, that got my attention, so, I just sat and watched it, for all of 60 seconds, and out popped this brown thing, I watched it get out, and when it stopped, it was a skink!

I didn't know skinks babies are brown at birth, they are so black later.
But it had the distinctive markings.

And I saw chipmunks playing in the garden, wonder if that is where alot of the ticks come from? I got covered with them, as usual, but usually it is from the forest, not the main garden.

Does anyone have an organic way of dealing with excess ticks? I have free range chickens, and they just aren't keeping ahead of the ticks this year. Would DE spread around in the garden do anything about ticks?
I had so many, that I had to use tape to remove them, and they were not the dots that we call seed ticks, they were larger ones.. we call them yearlings. I would put my hand on the bed, and ticks would crawl on my hand! I did very carefully place the tiny baby skink in the bed that I had just transplanted into and caged to keep animals out, so he will be safe while eating bugs! But how many bugs can he eat?

[cynthia_h]

Does anyone have an organic way of dealing with excess ticks? I have free range chickens, and they just aren't keeping ahead of the ticks this year. Would DE spread around in the garden do anything about ticks?
I had so many, that I had to use tape to remove them, and they were not the dots that we call seed ticks, they were larger ones.. we call them yearlings. I would put my hand on the bed, and ticks would crawl on my hand!

I am *so sorry* you're having to deal with that many ticks! I just did a quick Internet search on

ticks organic control

and, yes, DE is recommended by a couple of sites as a control method for ticks. [url=https://attra.ncat.org/calendar/question.php/2005/10/31/is_there_an_organic_control_for_ticks]This site[/url] -- --gives other specifics about organic control of ticks, including a mention of "Permaguard" for domestic dogs and cats (maybe goats, too?). "Permaguard" is described as a formulation of DE which is organic.

Best wishes, for sure.

Cynthia

[Ozark Lady]

When my kids were little, they used to catch lizards and actually bring them inside, to get tweezers and get the ticks off of the lizards, so I am not the only one dealing with them.

I just looked the goats over and didn't find even one tick. I use Ivermectin on them, for worms and lice, it is not labelled for ticks, but they don't have any at all on them. Not a bug, and no longer anemic.
I hate using chemicals at all, but Ivermectin is prescribed for humans alot so for me, it is the safer choice.

I know you can't use Ivermectin on collies, but I have the pour on and I think I am going to use it on my dogs, the drops just aren't effective on long haired dogs apparently. My dogs are not collie types.

I don't have any other mammals but dogs and goats.. the rest of my critters are poultry or birds. But, the squirrels, chipmunks, and wild deer think that they live here. I surely can't dose them, so I thought DE might be best bet and do the least harm to other critters like my skink.

On a bright note, with the drought, there are very few mosquitos left! Only water is the big lake, or my pond and both of those have fish in them.

[Green Mantis]

Ozark Lady,--Guinea Fowl are the best natural tick killers. They wander all over the farm and are perpetually scratching up bugs. I know they are terribly nosy, but they are supposed to be yummy too! I miss my guinea's. I wanted to ask you for you GOAT FORUM address??? sounds like fun to go look on anyway.---WE had the farrier out this morning, to trim the Miniature stallion we have.------This was FUNNY, when they got out of the truck there was a MOUSE running around his wheel on the truck. When we were done, the mouse was still running around like it was looking for something!!!---Talk about FUNNY, when he got in the TRUCK, the MOUSE hopped back up onto the inside of the wheel and away they went!!!! LOL!! I have never seen anything like that before!!!--I watched the Wheel while they drove away, thinking for sure it would jump out, but it didn't. GOOFY MOUSE!!!! Gave me a laugh for the day anyway!!!---Back to Guinea fowl, they are Great for alerting you to predators and people arriving, anything strange and they strart squacking. But great for getting rid of ticks. Good Luck getting rid of the ticks.!!!

[Ozark Lady]

I have a hen and some young chicks on patrol in the garden, and the ticks also got washed down the hill, when the rains started. I still get ticks but today, I have only had 6-8 and have been to the garden twice! So it is getting better.

I will send ya a pm about the Goat forum. It is a fun place to share. And they do garden too.

Everytime I have tried guineas, they roamed off and never returned. And my neighbors guineas do the same thing. I have even raised them from babies, and soon as you let them out of the cage they are gone.

I have 9 muscovey ducklings that will soon be released in the garden, and they are bug eating machines. I didn't see ticks on their favorites list, but they eat most other bugs!

They sure got rid of the harlequin bugs, and grasshoppers, and the brassica plants quickly! My 2 adult ones are too lazy to do much bug chasing.

[tedln]

Ozark Lady,

When you talk about ticks, are you talking about the big blood sucking ticks that swell up with your blood, or are you talking about what we call chiggers?

The chiggers totally bury themselves into your skin and itch like crazy for a week or two. I had a couple of ticks last year, but haven't seen any this year.I get a couple of chiggers every time I walk in the tall grass in the pasture. They like to dig in around the top of socks, under your arm pits, and around your waistline where the belt or your blue jean waist is tight.

The wife went to her dermatologist for a routine checkup recently and the doctors assistant was looking at her back for any spots that needed treatment. She asked my wife, "are you aware you have a big tick on your back?". My wife said no and asked her to remove it.

Ted

[Green Mantis]

We used to take some of the baby guineas away from the mom's, and put them under broody hens. The mother guineas aren't too bright sometimes, if the babies get wet, they get a chill and die.---Did you know those suckers can swim?????? We had an irrigation pond, it was 100 wide 150 long and 19 1/2 deep. We were trying to catch one adult guinea and it started to fly over the pond, we both stood there and thought, well so much for that one. But when it couldn't fly right across, it just settled on the water and swam!! If you could have seen our faces!!!! Then were trying to catch a mom and babies, to put in the barn and got the babies by the side of the pond, went to grab them, and they swam off a little! So they might not have web feet, but they can SWIM!!! Could you re-send the post? I think I deleted it by accident? Thanks So much.

[Ozark Lady]

I saw a person with chiggers once, they were like a rash, and all red and itchy. I don't think that I have had one.

Chiggers are in grass, and we don't have grass.

I am talking ticks. All the way from tiny seedticks, that you can barely see, but if they bite and stay on you, will develop into yearling ticks.
At the moment most ticks are in fact yearlings, although we did get a few million seed ticks picking pawpaws the other day.

The yearlings would grow into what is commonly called a deer or dog tick.
Then a deer tick would swell up and look like a dog tick!
It is progressive with various life cycles. Mostly they are deer ticks.

I haven't seen a large tick with a spot on his back all year long, just seed ticks and yearlings. But plenty of both of those.

The seedticks happen when a swollen female tick, drops off and does her baby making thing, out comes a whole huge cluster of seedticks, or tiny baby ticks.

This is deer country, and the deer are sleeping in sight of my house at the moment. They aren't bothering anything, just leaving lots of ticks.

Okay, I guess the tiny ticks are only deer ticks and not dog ticks, gee wonder if dog ticks are born full sized?

Anyhow, when I say tick, this is what I mean: Mostly the deer ticks, I haven't seen a spotted tick all year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick