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prettygurl
Senior Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:52 am

Re: Setting up soil for veggies. What layers, in what order?

Almost all of the methods are basically the same. The only difference is what they are called. I believe that you will have to pick and choose what is good for you and go for it.

I used to be anti-till but I have recently changed my mind on that. I also discovered that wood is not the best organic matter for every location. In my case, it was the pill bugs from hugelkultur that have turned me off from even thinking of trying to put wood chips in my garden.

There has been a wave of "new" methods introduced by permaculture over the last year or so. When it comes down to it, these are only recycled ideas. I've pretty much done a full circle and gone back to the same way my grandfather gardened.

imafan26
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Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

Permaculture priciples and biointensive are very similar.

What Paul does is not quite either one. He still imports tons of wood chips so his garden is not really self sufficient.

If you want to go truly biointensive and permaculture maybe you should be looking at Jon Jeavons biointensive gardening instead.

1. Design your garden to take advantage of what you have. If it is on a hillside a terrace garden works best and run the irrigation lines down hill.

2. Collect and divert water. Use rain barrels, rain gardens, divert some gray water from outdoor showers and sinks to the garden.

3. Compost and recycle whatever you can.

4. If you have the space raise your own chickens. Chicken tractors.

5. Invite nature in. Establish and maintain nectar and host plants for beneficial insects.

6. Reduce your carbon footprint. Solar power, walk and bike more and drive less.
Use a shovel and a rake not a tractor if at all possible

7. Build the soil, add organic matter, but with minimal tilling so as not to damage soil structure and disturb soil organisms large and small.

8. Select the best plants and cultivars for your area so that they will be less susceptible to bugs and disease.

9 Mulch and use drip irrigation to reduce water loss.

10. Share with community get your family and friends involved. Share the bounty.
P.S. Get their leaves and kitchen scraps for your compost pile while you are at
it. Reduce, re use, and recycle.

11. Lasagna your garden to reduce tilling. Keep adding layers brown, greens, compost and fertilizer. Plant, and then mulch. Harvest, and REPEAT.

estorms
Senior Member
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:04 am
Location: Greenfield Township, PA

I have mostly stones with a little dirt. I put on anything I can get anytime I can get it. I am building some raised beds this year. There is a place close by where I can get topsoil mixed with peat moss; half and half. All the stones are screened out. I'm putting that in my raised beds with a little 10-10-10 and some compost.

imafan26
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Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

Soil and peat moss should work. I would add some cinders or vermiculite myself. I would also mix in compost, about 20% by volume of the soil mixture. I choose to add a starter fertilizer on a freshly made bed since it has not had time to decompose yet. You may not have to if the soil is rich enough or you could supplement later if needed.

Put the brown layer down first. Straw, dry leaves, shredded paper, or composted wood chips. Add green layers kitchen scraps and coffee ground. Scraps you can get from the grocer and neighbors, grass clippings, fresh trimmings, composted manures (make sure it is not fresh). Repeat layers till you get about two feet high, then put on the soil mix and a layer of mulch.

The bed is best built in the fall so it can compost itself and be ready to plant in the spring. That way the materials will have had a chance to breakdown.

Plant in the soil through the mulch.

I have very heavy clay and need cinders to help with drainage. Cinders don't breakdown and pack the way that compost does. Compost and red clay together hold too much water. If your soil is sandier you don't have to do this. Vermiculite is hard for me to get in quantity and very expensive. Crushed cinders are heavy but readily available here.

estorms
Senior Member
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:04 am
Location: Greenfield Township, PA

I don't like the feel of cinders. Too much like little stones. I have never seen them in my area, so it is a moot point. I do have some shredded paper I can put in the bottom. I intend to use this bed this summer. I am tired of losing all my tomatoes to the blight. I hope new soil helps. The raised bed should also drain better.

imafan26
Mod
Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

You don't need to use cinders. Many people get great results just by continually adding organic matter to the soil. It can take several layers but it gets better over time.

estorms
Senior Member
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:04 am
Location: Greenfield Township, PA

Thanks. I filled a raised bed today. I did not put any brush or sticks in the bottom. (I work so hard to get rid of that stuff) I did put in some half finished compost. Then a few more pitch forks full as my husband shoveled the dirt in. I plan to put strawberries in it as soon as I can.

imafan26
Mod
Posts: 13962
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 am
Location: Hawaii, zone 12a 587 ft elev.

estorms wrote:I did put in some half finished compost.
Remember compost that is half finished is still using up nitrogen. You will probably also need to add some blood meal, fish meal, bone meal for added nutrients particularly nitrogen.

Usually lasagna gardens are set up in the fall so they have the fall and winter to decompose to be ready to plant in the Spring. Sheet composting is a slow process and it is cold composting so do not use diseased materials.

If you want to plant sooner. finished compost + organic fertilizer or topsoil 50% or more + compost (good quality) 20-50% + organic fertilizer should be the top planting layer covered with a final layer of mulch. You will plant through the mulch into the compost/soil layer. Over time the lower layers will continue to decompose and provide "soil" for the plant roots. Add additional organic matter annually.
I have links below to two sites explaining sheet composting.

https://extension.oregonstate.edu/lane/s ... osting.pdf
https://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/a ... f/4905.pdf



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