84pagirl
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can someone please explain permaculture?

Ive been reading alot of the posts but would some one please explain thiss concept to me it seems very interesting.

Toil
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nope.

but I'd be into you looking it up, and then telling us what you think.

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rainbowgardener
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Permaculture, is a big complex topic and I'm not an expert, but I'll give a couple things to start with including places to go to read more There's a nice article in Wikipedia that's a good introduction to the topic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture Permaculture is organic gardening done consciously for sustainability ("permanent agriculture"). So it's gardening based on natural principles of self-sustaining eco-systems, where your garden community provides all the inputs needed to sustain itself and produces no waste (because it's all used). It's the opposite of mono-culture crop farming with synthetic fertilizers and gigantic machinery run on gasoline power.

One characteristic of permaculture is the emphasis on efficient use of space. One design that is typical of permaculture is the keyhole garden, designed to make a lot of plants easily accessible. Applestar posted an example of hers with pictures here: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63042&highlight=keyhole+garden#63042

Planning is essential to this kind of efficiency, you need to know a lot about what kind of plants grow well in your area, what things grow well together, if you put in a trellis (permaculturists do a lot of vertical gardening for efficient use of space), what things would grow well under it, etc etc

Permaculturists put big emphasis on diversity, on including fruits, trees, especially nut trees, on making colonies of plants and animals that work together. And like all the rest of us organic gardeners, big emphasis on building up the soil and making living soil biologies that naturally enhance plant productivity.

Here's another brief article about permaculture gardening, but if you are serious about it, I'd look around in your area for a course... there is a lot to learn (then come back here and teach the rest of us!
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/organic/the-essence-of-permaculture-gardening.htm

cynthia_h
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There is a Sticky at the top of the Permaculture forum.

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7049

Lots of links to introductory articles about permaculture.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

ronbre
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well to break it down it is an earth friendly permanent agriculture type of situation..but doesn't just include gardens but a way of life.

in the garden, which this forum is referring mosty too, you try to mimc nature a bit by planting in levels, such as a canopy layer, an under story of smaller trees, then shrubs, perennials, annuals ground covers and vines..

you allow everything to naturally mulch below itself and bring in organic mulch to aid it..

you try to not do damage to the property but benefit it..

use of chemicals is seriously frowned on as fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides.

you try to arrange things in an order that will not only benefit you but also benefit each other..such as an example..have your chicken coop between your house and your garden so you can make fewer trips, like carry your household scraps to the chickens, fork the bedding and poo into a compost pile or onto the garden, gather weeds from the garden to feed the chickens and bring back the eggs on the return trip.

a great book for you to read is Gaia's Garden by Toby Hemenway

for more info you might want to check out the permies.com forums

The Helpful Gardener
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It is basically learning to set up your landscape to sustain itself as a food producing garden. I have always liked the phrase "permadise", because that is the goal; a Garden of Eden like set-up where, with little effort, you can feed you and yours year round...

It was started back in the 70's by two Aussies named Bruce Mollison and Dave Holmgren, based on the work of Masanobu Fukuoka, but expounded on in many ways by those two. There have been other good examples along the way that do not hold particularly to the guidelines of trademarked permaculture like Ruth Stout or Emilia Hazelip. About the best living example is [url=https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6656144440632078205#]Sepp Holzer[/url], who just blows me away with his inherent genius in working with nature to bring bounty...

I think of permaculture as the antidote to the self destructive path we are currently journeying down as a species; a souless road paved with greed and avarice where only the top echelon lives well, and that at the expense of others. We in the First World live on top of the Third World with our "needs" for bigger better, faster, and that dominance extends to every other species as well. Permaculture lives on the principle of "Take Just Enough", that we all may enjoy the bounty of nature, every being; human, animal, or plant. A goal worth striving for...

HG

paul wheaton
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[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=30]permaculture[/url] stuff tends to not be in rows. Lots more trees. Lots more edible perennials. Lots of "edge" (edge of water, edge of forest, edge of a hill ....).

Things tend to look less orderly.

Lot of plants that others call "weeds" are encouraged by permies.

In fact, there is usually a lot less weeding.

When permaculture is done REALLY well, there is no irrigating, no fertilizing, no spraying, no digging .... in fact for most stuff you will go years and years where the only work is harvesting. Annuals will re-seed themselves and will prefer the spots where they outcompete everything else.
Last edited by paul wheaton on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Helpful Gardener
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And thank you, Paul, for turning me onto Sepp's work; really inspiring stuff...

HG

paul wheaton
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You're very welcome Scott! Sepp Holzer is pretty amazing. A lot of this stuff might sound a bit crazy if not for Sepp proving it.
Last edited by paul wheaton on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Helpful Gardener
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Hey if it was just Sepp it would still sound pretty crazy, but it's Ruth, and Emilia, and Fukuoka-sensei, and Dave and Bruce, and a host of others who have born this out over decades. I have come to it slowly and in increments, but any permie would recognize my gardens for what they are right away.

In short, permaculture is just an, easier, smarter way to garden...

HG

cynthia_h
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The Helpful Gardener wrote:
In short, permaculture is just an, easier, smarter way to garden...

HG
What is the minimum space needed for this "smarter way to garden"? Our whole lot, house, driveway, carport, redwood tree, and all, is 50' x 100'. Since the driveway goes the length of the lot and the carport is at the back, not much dirt for this "smarter way."

What is the minimum space? Thank you.

Cynthia, running on deadline a LOT these days, Vergil comes home today

The Helpful Gardener
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Fukuoka-sensei insists that a quarter acre can feed a person for the year...

43560 sq. ft. to the acre divided by four = 10890. Let's say 11000.

Your space is 5000 sq., so you can feed half of you or a quarter of you and the SO.

All this of course assumes that you are planning on feeding yourself completely on your own land; I find little evidence of that paradigm with any of our members. Permacultural techniques are often used towards self sufficiency, but that doesn't mean that we can't use them in place of standard techniques when growing every bit of what we eat isn't the priority.

Sure, keyline plowing and the permacultural zones don't hold any meaning on a property your size, Cynthia, but polycultural cropping in Hazelip style raised beds is an even better idea in the space constrained garden than till and row gardening. My 20 x 24 garden will produce half again what it did last year from some minor changes in style and technique... two foot mounded rows have increased my surface area immensely over the smaller mounds from last year, allowing me to add four different greens I didn't have last year, and the polycropping has gained me a lot of linear feet by allowing for closer planting...

Permaculture is really a toolbox you can pick from that suits the job you are working on; nobody is saying hammer in that bolt... but there are a lot of techniques like no-till, polycropping, hay mulching, etc, that can make anyones garden more productive, fertile and easier to maintain, and that just seems smart to me...

And if you have the space, there are other techniques we can discuss that will make your garden or farm not just easier to grow on, but better for the planet...

P.S. Just realized I didn't really answer Cynthia's question, but assuming hay bale planting is a permie technique, a hay bale is about two feet by three and a half, so my answer is 7 sq. ft. :wink:

HG

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rainbowgardener
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I think permaculture is a philosophy about sustainability, no outside inputs and nothing wasted, working with nature trying to make your place an ecosystem, so no chemicals, efficiency, focusing on food growing, AND it is a set of techniques to try to actualize the goals. Some of the techniques may not be relevant to us folks with limited amounts of land, but they are all in service of the goals and I think you (basically) share the same goals.

The Helpful Gardener
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Well said, RBG!

HG

ronbre
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in Toby Hemenway's book Gaia's Garden he has an entire chapter on permaculture in tiny tiny urban lots and sharing with your neighbors, you might want to get that book and read it. Avail on Amazon.

I love the idea of not weeding, I just wish my whispy seedheads of my quackgrass wasn't looked down up on by so many people, as it is a bit ephemeral looking over the tops of the gardens and seeing the sun through the seedheads (but I know they'll make more quackgrass).

And as for the weeds, most of them I'll admit I love..but there area few like the quackgrass that are the bane of my permie existance !!!

I was able to pick the first crop of my lambsquarters for a nice little meal yesterday, wilted in a bit of butter with a tad of salt and pepper ..oh yum..people that don't eat their weeds are just missing something really good !

One suggestion is to go everywhere you can and read everything you can on every permie site and then go to all the links that they offer..as there is so much to learn.

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oki
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Wow, thanks for the explanations you guys, I think this is exactly the type of gardening I've been looking for since I started getting into it! 'u'
Except maybe not so much the food aspect (outside of fruit, because most berries and fruit trees don't really need any help) but maybe if permaculture poses a simpler way to grow veggies for clueless beginners like me, I'll think about getting into that, too.

luvnsurf
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I found this website to be very helpful also. :D

https://www.tropicalpermaculture.com/what-is-permaculture.html

imafan26
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Permaculture is a design and philosophy based upon three ethical principles that can apply to all aspects of life not just the garden.
1. Nurturing the land
2. Nurturing people
3. Fair share

Nurturing the land: Love the land. Build soil with compost and nurture the ecosystem. Provide habitat for beneficial organisms. Chicken tractors to improve the soil. Planting a variety of plants rather than mono culture. Integrative design. Turn a problem into a solution: Aquaponics (fish waste = fertilizer for plants = clean water for fish). Choosing solutions that fit in with your environment: Plant varieties and plants that do best where you are. Develop systems that use locally available materials = horse manure from stables, rabbit manure, local wood for stakes, composting of yard and kitchen waste and recycling some water.

Nurturing people: work as a community permaculture blitz. Social networking. Value traditional wisdom and cultural diversity.

Fair share:
It can apply to many aspects of life. Everything from leaving a smaller carbon footprint: walk or ride a bicycle rather than take the car or using solar power : Hang your laundry on a line on a sunny day instead of using a dryer. Changing wasteful practice= reuse and recycle. Sharing with community= sharing produce, knowledge with others. Using only what you need; grow your own food but can share or sell excess.

Below is a link to permaculture principles site.
https://permacultureprinciples.com/principles.php

Permaculture at work: African keyhole garden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUUJDG4zv5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I-_6Bog-rM

goingreenhouse
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this sound very interesting to me as well. thank you for all the links and information. I will be busy for hours reading.



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