Save the Leaves!

[opabinia51]

Excellant, thanks for the information Marge!

I now have a very large pile of leaves (all sorts of differnet species of trees) and this weekend my plan is to collect mainly big leaf maple leaves for the first layer of sheet compost for next year. (After the Fall Rye is turned in, in the fall)

[opabinia51]

Yes, I currently have three piles of leaves in my garden:

1) The huge pile of mixed leaves for general composting and mulching purposes (next year)

2) A pile of Big Leaf and some other type of Maple (for the first layer of sheet compost next October)

3) A pile of Apple, hazelnut, plum and cherry leaves (for the second layer of leaves in the sheet compost next October (first))

Save the leaves now and you won't be scrounging around for them next spring, summer and fall.

(My grandmother has these huge 105 year old apple trees in the yard. Wow, if those trees could talk. I think that the plum tree is a decade or so younger than the apple trees.)

[NatGreeneVeg]

On Gardeners World, Monty Don showed how to mow piles of leaves to cut them up and help them break down into compost quicker. In fact he said by bunging the leaves in a bin bag and damping them down (and making a couple of small holes in the bottom of the bag), this will cause the leaves to turn into leaf mould in about 9-12 months!

I've done that before, unintentionally, just didn't get to the 24 bags until the next year. What was sitting around for 7 monts was fabulous to use for mulch. But now I have a LeafEater leaf mulcher. I finally used it a year ago to mulch all my beds. This spring I never saw so many worms in my soil. Fantastic!

[The Helpful Gardener]

Yup worms turn them into leaf mold too, and for free!

HG

[opabinia51]

I've long been a strong advocate for leaf mold. Very good for the garden. Takes a bit longer to make but, really really good. Leaves hold between 300 and 500 times their mass in water as well.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Worms love carbon; don't know exactly why. I suspect they are fond of fungal mass to some degree, but then why more worms in grassland than forest soil? Still, when you put paper in a vermicomposter they flock to it...

The real beauty is that it ain't a V8 engine; you don't have to understand it to make it all work for you... it just does

HG

[gixxerific]

I have something to add to that: Also have browns that are as variable as possible. As many different types of leaves as you can get but, be aware of Allelopaths like Oak and Walnut. (And any others that people are aware of).

Why is it that you should stay away from these types of leaves? I have been getting leaves by the truckload off of a roadside near me. I didn't think about what type of leaves I was getting. I was just piling them up, some were even half composted which I thought would be a bonus. The area I'm getting them is a heavily wooded (I don't know if I would call it a forest but...) area with many kinds of trees. I would think that many of them are Oaks which grow all over around here.

Should I check this out, or is it something I shouldn't worry about too much?

Thanks

[The Helpful Gardener]

No , Gixx if Opa is talking it's always worth listening. But I am a little surprised to see oak as an allelopath. They are higher carbon than some other hardwoods and high in tannins, which makes them a very fungal soil, but I didn't know they had a chemical component like juglone in walnuts...

Just checked and Opa is spot on. This [url=https://www.regional.org.au/au/allelopathy/2005/2/1/2499_djurdjevicl.htm]Serbian study[/url](focused on grasses) showed nearly complete suppresion of germination; looks like a series of phenolic acids (including syringic acid (lilacs?) and vanillic acid (Vanilla?). Turns out red (swamp)maple and red pine are suppressed by oaks...

And Number one on the Google Search? Us! An [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1223]old locked thread[/url]from yesteryear started by...Opa. Who years later now has the answer and is schooling us. See, Gixx, I right about paying attention to Opa. Couple years ago asking the question, and now answering it. That is why this Forum is as good as it is, folks like Opa who learn and then share.

So yeah, Gixx, you should check it out... Note in the old thread I suggest a little preemergent in my compost may not be entirely unwanted. In my case that's entirely true; most of mine is used as mulch (Not the kitchen scrap bin or the tumbler, but the big piles). I have pines which are rich in terpenes, found to be both phytotoxic (kills adult plants) and pre-emergent (stops seed germination). And LOTS of plants from [url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19154161]eupatoriums[/url] to [url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T4R-4V34RPN-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1081711968&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ce95a4b951546c1edd35a127cbc25abc]marigolds[/url] have them. So yeah, check it all out, but don't freak out too much either.

I have mulched several beds with straight pine needles for years, and with just a few exceptions, everyone is still growing great (Brunnera do NOT like it; 'Jack Frost' has been going backwards for two years and will move this spring). Fair amount of pine needle in my veg garden too, and no issues there. And oak leaf duff (Q. rubra)is everywhere at Mom's; we pile it to knock down weeds and some end up in the bed no matter how many times you rake, and somehow things still grow. Nature sorts itself out pretty well in the long run and even my volatile pines, taken in moderation are still workable. Even black walnut leaves don't stay around forever; composting is a great way to start the process. Just be aware of too much of a good/bad thing...

HG

[gixxerific]

Great I'm not big on identifying trees so I guess I will have to look them up and go see if they are the same. I have a poo load of leaves at my house right now. What do I do if they contain oak leaves just go with the flow and hope for the best or get rid of 2 truckloads of leaves?

you were saying they have a herbicidal affect on grasses. If my memory serves me right there was no grass in that area. I was raking up rocks, that is a bad sign right there. It is a newer development and they have been doing some work right there so maybe that has something to do with it.

Now you tell me.

:EDIT: I just went through 50+ sites and didn't come up with much. The ones that had examples of trees that were allelopathic only mentioned the Northern Red Oak as being this way. Well actually 1 had some research on Blackjack Oaks. There were a few references to the brassica family as well with an emphasis on broccoli, go figure.

Opa do you have anything to add?