animal component in a small suburban garden?

[applestar]

I'm starting to wonder about what animal could I possibly keep.

My property is not zoned rural/for livestock. I haven't actually checked, but I'm pretty sure nothing hoofed or feathered is allowed. If it's possible, I've often wondered about quail because I wouldn't mind having the eggs, and in the Australian permaculture forum, they had a lively discussion about "backyard quail," the apparent consensus being that the little Bantum chickens would be better than quail.

I couldn't butcher and eat anything I raise, so numbers have to be limited. I don't have and don't think I could build, a shelter, AND I have limited indoor space, so it would have to be winter hardy or maybe able to stay in the unheated garage, or take up very little room in the house and not smell too much. We have two gerbils and two cats right now (the cats are useless for the purpose of this discussion -- about the only thing they contribute is cat hair for the compost pile -- and, although the gerbils do what they can to help, they are too little to provide much service in that area )

Right now, only animals I can think of are rabbits and guinea pigs. I do dabble in limited spinning and knitting in the cold season, so I suppose long haired varieties might contribute something addditional. ) Can bunnies/guinea pigs be kept in "tractors" (with mesh floor, of course)? Would you set it directly on the ground so they can forage?

Any thoughts?

[cynthia_h]

I'm in an "old suburb," and up to 4 chickens are allowed. Rabbits and guinea pigs are of course also allowed.

You might see whether your municipal code (or at least parts of it) is available on line and check the sections about "domesticated animals."

If you decide on rabbits, please know that wire-mesh-bottomed cages are VERY HARD on rabbits' feet. The House Rabbit Society, www.rabbit.org, has a thorough discussion on housing possibilities for rabbits. I'm not sure what you mean by "tractor," though.

Rabbit poo is terrific in the compost. Probably guinea pig poo, too, since these "pigs" are herbivorous.

Good luck!

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

[TheLorax]

I couldn't butcher anything here either. Aren't we a sorry lot.

I was sitting here reading and trying to figure out why you would want an animal for outside if you couldn't use it on the dinner table and just realized you wanted the poops for your composter.

I don't know that it would be cost effective to have a rabbit just to get its poops. We had them as pets when we were growing up and my Dad made a tray that slid out of the bottom. It was really innovative at the time. Now, almost 50 years later, I see dog crates that have that same slide out style tray. That would take care of the mesh bottoms that are hard on their feet.

One thing I completely overlooked is that we have a pet rat that gets his cage cleaned every two weeks. I should have been tossing the spent litter from his cage into the composter. Eesh, I missed a golden opportunity to feed my composter.

Are you a risk taker? Chickens seem to be an ideal animal for people like us because we'd get the eggs and the poops. What about locating some farmer and telling him you want to borrow a few to see how the neighbors will react. That way if anyone complains, you could say they were just visiting for a bit. If no one complains, you could buy three or four of your own. Don't borrow a rooster. You don't need one and they are very loud.

I bought a book titled "Chicken Coops" by Judy Pangman. If you can pick up this book at the library, check out page 51. It's a small compact design perfect for four chickens complete with easily accessible nest boxes and two roosts. It has easy access from the outside to the nest boxes so you could hand collect your eggs. There is also a small yard enclosed in chicken wire. It's attractive so from that respect I doubt anyone would complain.

[applestar]

I had an idea
I might get one of those "educational incubators" and plan on hatching a few Bantam eggs next spring. I think my kids would be intrigued. When I was tossing this project idea around as part of our homeschooling curricula last year, a couple of families with farmettes said they would be willing to adopt anything feathered that we hatch if it turns out we can't keep them. So I have an out if after hatching and raising them for a while, it turns out that we're "skirting the law".

[TheLorax]

We've done the educational incubators before. Not only did the kids have a blast but we had a blast with them too. We watched for hours on end when the pipping started. We were riveted to the window on the incubator. I've never seen our kids so "glued" to anything. You won't be disappointed even if you don't get to keep them.

I was still poking around for chicken coops and came across one that is rather attractive-
https://www.backyardchickens.com/

Scroll down a little bit and look at that beauty complete with windows. I'm still going for the coop on page 51 but it was fun looking at that photo.

[webmaster]

...and plan on hatching a few Bantam eggs next spring.

It's probably a good idea to have somewhere ready to donate the roosters to. They're quite noisy.

[applestar]

Ah, yes. I was looking to see if you can buy sexed hatching eggs -- I'm pretty sure I read/heard somewhere that fertilized egg will be male/female depending on the temperature or some other environmental factors (... or maybe I'm wrong) Anyway, I haven't seen them offered that way anywhere, so I guess it's going to be luck of the draw.

I inquired at a local organic farm where I bought some eggs, and she's going to email me if the person she has in mind would be willing to take Bantam roosters. I have two other potential takers that I'll be checking with. Hopefully that will be enough to locate homes for our potential boys.

Worst case, there IS a farm auction two towns over... I think I heard first Sat of each month is when they have poultry.... Hmm, I suppose I *could* check there for the hatching eggs too, though I was considering McMurray Hatchery where I saw this
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/product/three_egg_full_auto_incubator.html

[cynthia_h]

There are a number of poultry suppliers listed at Dave's Garden's "Garden Watchdog" with feedback from customers. The "Suppliers--Poultry Farming & Equipment" search is at

https://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/advanced.php?category=131&submit=Go

Be SURE TO CHECK the rankings (positive, neutral, negative) of any company which seems to offer what you're looking for: sexed eggs.

BTW, I checked my municipal code on line the other night and it appears that chickens are no longer legal. So what I think has happened is that my down-the-street neighbors no longer have their rooster but probably do have the chickens. Along with a solid six-foot privacy fence! They're old-time Portuguese gardeners, so I can't imagine them without chickens.

(My street is interesting. We have three, sometimes four, Portuguese-speaking households on one block's worth of street. All of them are very good gardeners from way back when.)

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

[Bina]

If you want to check out another web site and it has some information on the cities and towns it's legal to keep chickens in the States and Canada. There's also some information on how to try and keep your chickens if you get into trouble. Try www.torontochickens.com

Hope it helps! Oh and I saw a "stealth chicken coop" for sale on the internet it was disquised as a garbage can and housed 4 hens.

Bina

[applestar]

Bina, I had this on the back burner for a while but your post revived my interest in it and I spent a day renewing my research. I found the "stealth coop" I think that could sit quite innocently next to my compost bins.
Typical me -- I don't even know if I'm really doing it, but I've checked out the different breeds available as bantam size and checked out possible sources! I have time -- the temps went down to 20ºF last night -- nobody's going to be shipping eggs until spring. But there's actually a bantam araucana (blue eggs!) breeder within driving distance

I think gardening must be an addiction -- I'm slooowly weaning myself away (restricting myself to indoor herb garden in pots, some last minute rescues from the veggie garden, a few beans I sowed for kicks, and the few pots of orchids that always flowers during the winter... oh and the 3 amaryllis bulbs I re-started for winter flower for the 4th year... and some tropical fruit seeds... and ) and reviving my winter hobby of knitting and crocheting.

I know YOU've gone and started a veggie garden in your basement! Long way from going on the wagon for sure.

[Bina]

Ducks actually Runner Ducks. I need to get some ducks. You see I have a reeeeeeeeeeally bad slug problem in my garden, and I need ducks. Honestly officer I have to have the ducks they eat the slugs and you really don't want me to poisons down where peoples pets and children could possibly get into them. Do you?
Do you think they'll buy it? If they do........ the chickens move in next. I live in one of those tourist trap towns that is more worried about appearances than in the enviornment, community gardens, allotments or anything else like that.
There are bets going that it will be a huge stink if I get caught.
Best of luck at your end
Bina

[Bina]

I just got the greatest news it just might be legal for me to have chickens in the backyard if I get a permit. Four hens for eggs and my husband bless him says he'll help me set it up. My sister in law says that she heard about two other women who have chickens and all they had to do was apply for the permits soooooo I am going to check into permits. Then I am going to look for four heritage chickens and set up a sustainable egg laying chicken tractor. I won't need a stealth coop.
I can't wait for spring! Maybe your town has permits too. And maybe I can get one for four ducks as well. I really do have a slug problem.
Bina

[!potatoes!]

went to a class on rabbit raising a few weeks ago and someone asked a question about 'tractoring' them...there's a couple of rabbit diseases that are entirely contracted by being in too close contact with their own feces...not that it couldn't be done, but the tractor would have to move very frequently, or designed to keep the animals far enough away from the ground that you might be better off bring them food anyway, cage-style...

it looks like you've got the chicken thing kinda worked out, and maybe aren't looking into rabbits any more, but I thought I'd throw that info out there.

[The Helpful Gardener]

How about pygmy goats? Cheese making opportunity; I love good chevre.

And I have yet to meet a goat dish I don't like, burria from Mexico, curry from India and Jamaica (not the same thing at all, despite the same name). And the pygmy types are really pretty small, so you don't need a huge place, but half an acre at least.. And no Bina, I doubt they will give you a goat permit, but hey, you thought you weren't getting chickens...

HG

[Dannyo]

I have been trying to convince my wife to get 3-4 hens for our backyard, but she says she "hates chickens" that's another story though sense she's never had chickens. I thought I'd throw a couple links in here that are very helpful for the back yard chicken idea

https://www.backyardchickens.com

https://thecitychicken.com

[cynthia_h]

I've been following the (hmm) "adventures" of Judy L., a quilter and blogger par excellence, at

https://www.patchworktimes.com/category/home-garden/

where she has the history of wanting chickens as pets / garden helpers for 20 years, how she and her DH and son moved to the country in Missouri from elsewhere in the Midwest, how DH refused to get chickens until...

they purchased farm-fresh eggs at a farmer's market...

You can take it from there!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9