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cherlynn
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The One-Straw Revolution

Hi All,

I have been reading The One-Straw Revolution by Masanobu Fukuoka, 1978. It is quite interesting.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for a good permaculture "read"? I do need to purchase a copy of Gaia's Garden
which is mentioned quite often in this Garden forum.

Oops...I just realized that I had initially heard about The One-Straw Revolution on this forum. Forgive me, in my retirement I have become a bit(more) flakey! I believe it was TheLorax who had mentioned it..Thank You!

TheLorax
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Hi cherlynn, I bought Gaia's Garden because it was recommended here however I wouldn't suggest you buy it.

Here are some of the issues with the book summed up quite nicely by some people who reviewed the book at Amazon-
The author says, You can't fight invasives, so don't bother trying. And don't worry about planting invasives such as bamboo, just keep an eye on them so they don't get out of hand. Invasives are one of the leading causes of species extinction. If the philosophy of the book is to help the biosphere through local action, this glib attitude toward invasives is counterproductive. I would still recomend the book, since it is concise and combines a handful of techniques into a powerful synthesis, but don't just accept the author's view of exotic species before checking out a book on native gardening for your region. I think it is still possible to employ these permaculture ideas while favoring the natives and keeping a close watch on invasives, which can wreak havoc on the neighborhood long after you're gone.
As a dedicated organic gardener and lawn hater, I waited excitedly for this book to arrive. I knew I was going to love it. I had previously read Permaculture in a Nutshell and liked it. What a disappointment. Gaia's Garden annoyed me so much I couldn't make myself read past page 42, and I rarely can't finish a book. For one thing, short of a couple mentions of the contributions of organic gardening to the development of permaculture, the author presents the world as divided between permaculture and "reliance on resource gobbling poisonous chemicals". What about farms growing organically, which are increasing rapidly? What about community-supported agriculture? What about those of us who already grow a lot of our own food organically? Since these aren't the topic of the book, I don't expect the author to dwell on them, but he could at least acknowledge they exist. I found this alienating, and it lessened his credibility. The frequent anti-mainstream rhetoric really got on my nerves after a while, which surprised me because he was preaching to the converted. By the time I got to the mention of planting to protect from fire and the author's "neighbors, with their power mowers, chainsaws, pyromaniac children, and other incendiary devices," I was ready to give up. OK, maybe he really does have some scary and careless neighbors, but how likely is it that we all live by pyromaniacs? There are so many examples of the author not seeming to present reality or indulging in over-the-top rhetoric that it undermined the interesting information in the book. A major flaw was that important detail and examples were left out frequently, leaving one only able to question the conclusions or unable to figure out how to follow the author's advice. For example, the author mentions areas for growing firewood. Do we cut down the trees or use dropped limbs? Is he suggesting that we heat our homes with the wood to reduce electricity and gas use? If lots of people did this, what would be the effects of all the wood smoke in the air? He mentions that for every 1000 square feet of home, 1 acre of clearcut forest has our name on it. Is this just the building materials for the home, or does it also include the wood products we use in daily life? What else would be necessary for people in North America to have 70 percent of our lumber come from community woodlots, as in Switzerland. Surely we must need some infrastructure for this to work. Is my personally growing trees for lumber on my 1/3-acre suburban lot going to help right now? How can we work toward the goal if we don't know what all is involved? There's a drawing of a "typical [planting] zone layout for a 1/4 acre suburban lot." It doesn't include a garage or a driveway. Is he suggesting we remove the garage and driveway, or was this just carelessness? I wish the author and publisher would tone down the rhetoric, fill in the details, and publish a second edition of this book, because I really feel there's something to this idea. It just wasn't accessible from this book.
The above two comments somewhat sum up why I couldn't in good conscience recommend this book. It wasn't until after I purchased the book and began reading it that I realized the publication was a huge disappointment. This book was written in the year 2000 and I, like many others, am having considerable difficulty overcoming the author's attitude toward invasive species. Just as we have learned that it isn't ok to dump left over lead paint out back behind the woodshed, we know that it's not ok to dump invasive plants into a landscape design and certainly not a design embracing the original theories and practices of permaculture. Counter productive would be an understatement. Another issue would be that I'm not into name-droppers. No point to the exercise and to do so detracts considerably from one's writing.

If one reads 'The One-Straw Revolution' first, one is in a much better position to spot exactly why Gaia's Garden was such a tremendous disappointment and falls so short of expectations. Permaculturists are supposed to "know better" than to promote the spread of invasives. Seems as if the author of Gaia's Garden is sort of hung up back in the 80's.

Appears the Gaia's Garden publication enjoys a cult-like following of people enamored with the theories.

https://www.becomenatural.com/blog/2007/08/permaculture-criticism-reasons-against-it/
excerpts from above-
Though the general principles of Permaclture seem to be sensible, early texts promote the use of non-native invasive species or environmental weeds e.g. many Acacia species. John Robin has been one of the strongest critics of permaculture, criticising it for its potential to spread environmental weeds, reflecting a divide between native plant advocates and permaculture.

The perceived lack of evidential data about the performance of the system and lack of a central body representing the system have also been sources of criticism.

Bill Mollison himself has also been critical of itinerant teachers of permaculture who would go on to teach after only a short course. At one point Mollison unsuccessfully tried to trademark the term permaculture to prevent this practice.

Perhaps the strongest criticism of permaculture is to be found in the Review of Toby Hemenway’s book Gaia’s Garden, which was published in the Winter 2001 edition of the Whole Earth Review. In it, Greg Williams critiques the view that woods were more highly productive than farmland based on the theory of ecological succession which says that net productivity declines as ecosystems mature. He also criticised the lack of scientifically respectable data and questions whether permaculture is applicable to more than a small number of dedicated people....
Much criticism of this publication out there of which I was unaware when I purchased it. Now that I have read some of the book, I believe the criticism is well deserved particularly for those who garden in temperate regions.

I have a new book at home that I believe you will not only enjoy reading but will get more out of. The writing style isn't laced with rhetoric as is Gaia's Garden and the author is respectful and considerate of neighbors. I had begun reading this book while waiting for kids to finish sports practices and such before we left for a vacation. Can't recall the title and can't recall the author right now and am not in a position to run out to that car to retrieve this information but I believe you will find it much more consistent with the true spirit of permaculture. Get a hold of me after Labor Day when we'll be home and I can get my hot little fingers on the title and author. My mind is drawing a complete blank right now. Off the top of my head, look for any publications by Bill Mollison.

That being said, I believe permaculture has a place in the lives of North Americans and I am a native plant advocate. I believe the two can merge quite nicely as is evidenced by countless native plant advocates out there already putting permaculture theories into practice.

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cherlynn
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Thank you Lorax,

I have noticed that you are always quite thorough in all of your posts and your reply to me was no exception. I am really enjoying The One-Straw Revolution and have found it to be quite informative. I will be reading more of it today.

I have seen what invasive plants do to our native species with bamboo invading my mother-in-law's yard from her neighbors. I am also a beginner in identifying plants and gardening. Retirement has afforded me the time to pursue this interest and pleasure!

I have also watched the video Permaculture- In Grave Danger of Falling Food with Bill Mollison.

It will be great to get the title of the book you are reading. Thank You! I will certainly be in touch after Labor Day.

TheLorax
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Hi cherlynn,

Thank you very kindly for the compliment.

The book is in my car, on the floor, probably underneath dirty gear and clothes they stripped out of before we went out to eat the last time. Really sorry, I know what it's like to be chomping at the bit for information and you have to wait to get it. Truly sorry about that but we're in a rental car right now.

That Gaia's Garden does have some great ideas that could be modified to be more environmentally responsible but it was too aggravating for me to have to weed through so much that grated on me to get to it. I've been gardening long enough to know what's consistent with my "green" style of gardening and what isn't which is a big help. If the book is available at a library (it is quite popular), it might be worth some of your time. Me, I don't like owning books that I don't feel comfortable pulling off a shelf to hand to somebody to borrow as a "great read" and I definitely don't like spending money wastefully so this particular book ended up being a dud for me that cost money I would have preferred to spend on something else. It wasn't a book I'd keep to refer back to and isn't a book I'd donate to a local library so that's going to leave it sitting around collecting dust. I think my problem with the book is that there was so much hype about it that my expectations were beyond what it could offer and then there was that major issue of him stating it wasn't worth the bother addressing invasives. It wasn't exactly chalk full of good sound ideas for me to run out to begin applying anyway. The One Straw Revolution on the other hand, is a publication that I would have paid $100 to own to be able to refer back to it time and time again so I guess I'm even since that one cost me nothing and is housed on my desktop.

Have a great summer, what's left of it.

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Ah, that's too bad. Gaia's Garden did provide an invaluable stepping stone for me though -- it's opened up all kinds of possibilities for my small, suburban, cookie-cutter development property that I was previously unable to even envision, considering the pressure of nearly identical neighborhood-friendly landscape "designs" everywhere. You, Lorax, are WAY ahead of everyone else in this respect, --- [edited to mention: I realized this might end up sounding sarcastic to people who don't know the background, so I'm going to mention theLorax's [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9218]Turf Busting[/url] -- scroll to bottom of p.1 for details of her GREAT PROJECT --- so I can see how this book would have fallen short of your expectations. I definitely agree about problematical lack of concern for native species/invasives. I can't see the logic in ignoring this very important issue for the ultimate health of our environment :?, so I've been trying to wrap my mind around/integrate the multiple ideas into a cohesive whole that makes sense to me. :idea:)

I've been trying to read One Straw Revolution and have been sampling snippets of info in both English and Japanese, but I got sidetracked when I went full-tilt into researching Plant Communities and Native Plants vs. Invasives pertinent to my specific area. Thanks for the reminder. :wink:

Thanks for the link to scribd, cherlynn. It led me to some articles by Bill Mollison, which I've been sampling. If you're checking in JennyC, there's was a mention of a farmer who solved his blackberry problem by planting fruit tree seedlings in the middle of the patches and letting his pigs and cattle trample down the blackberries after the fruit trees grew up and started dropping fruit among the surrounding brambles. :shock: The livestock manured the trees in the process. :lol:

TheLorax
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The book in the car is "An Introduction to Permaulture: Concepts and Resources" by Bill Mollison and Reny Mia Slay. I finally remembered the name then went online looking for a book that had the same cover as the one I bought when I went to a seminar with Chowmom. Ta da, I remembered the name of the book and picked up the authors when I saw the cover online. Here's a link to what the book looks like and my bet is that the library has it or it can be ordered from Amazon-
https://www.attra.org/attra-pub/perma.html

David Holmgren would be another author to look for in the league of Mollison. Let's face it, the Aussies and the Japanese are leap years ahead of us given their sensitivity to global environmental issues. Something sorely lacking over here in the US thanks in great part to the power of our nursery industry and our chemical industry lobbyists. In my mind, it's real simple, the nursery industry creates demand then pumps out the noxious weeds and invasives for us to buy and the chemical industry provides us with endless aisles of quick fix products to eliminate them once our awareness is heightened. It's a vicious circle and the promotion of invasives in a popular permaculture publication of all places, defied logic.

I got to thinking about Gaia's Garden, which in all fairness to the author, does have quite a bit of useful information. I was whining to a girlfriend who also wasn't thrilled with the author's comments on invasives or his use of them throughout the book but she told me to read all of it because of the design possibilities mentioned by you. She has a valid point and I do already own the book.

Ah yes applestar, I'm so far ahead of the game that I really did hire professionals to bail me out of the fine mess I've got on my hands here. They're coming out in October. A few friends of mine are coming to hang out that day to hear what they have to say because they are in similar situations. I already know NEWisc and MaineDesigner pointed out the obvious to me quite nicely but I'm still hoping for that silver bullet.
but I got sidetracked when I went full-tilt into researching Plant Communities and Native Plants vs. Invasives pertinent to my specific area. Thanks for the reminder
Rumor has it he is writing a second book. I suspect his next publication will be more sensitive to the environment and probably more considerate of neighbors. After all, none of us lives in a bubble and what you do affects me just as what I do affects you.

applestar, could you confirm something for me if possible since you read and write Japanese and may have friends or relatives in Japan? My brother taught at the Imperial University for about 10 years and he told me that Masanobu Fukuoka passed away at the age of 95 about a week ago according to something he read from a friend who is still a Professor at the University where he used to work. Is this true?

cynthia_h
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Masanobu Fukuoka (福岡 正信 Fukuoka Masanobu February 2, 1913 and August 16, 2008) author of The One-Straw Revolution, The Road Back to Nature and The Natural Way Of Farming, was one of the pioneers of no-till grain cultivation. His system is referred to as "natural farming", Fukuoka Farming, or the Fukuoka Method.

from Wikipedia

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

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applestar
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Oh, I just hit reply and saw cynthia found out the info already. I was somewhat delayed in my response because I was getting goosebumps for some reason as I read the news article. Confirmed he died on the 16th at age of 95. Was August 16 full moon? Someone mentioned that he died on the night of the Full Moon Festival, when the spirits of family ancestors are supposed to return to visit and bless their children and their descendants.

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cherlynn
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TheLorax,

Thank you for looking up the title and author of the book! I am almost finished reading The One Straw Revolution and another read is just what I'll need! I must say that Masanobu Fukuoka's spiritual connection with the earth and life resembles what I have read of Eckart Tolle. Tolle, may not be a "gardener" however his book A New Earth is on a similar level.

I certainly appreciate being able to learn from your experiences and that of others on this gardening forum. I have really learned a great deal from the posts that I have read here!


Applestar,

You, too have been quite helpful to me, as I expand my knowledge of gardening. We seem to have similar interests in gardening. Although, you are much more well versed in gardening than I...which is great for me...you are quite generous in sharing your experiences!

I did a similar thing to you, when you grew your weeds out to see what you had, but only in my flower gardens. Some seemed very invasive. I too would like a balance of these multiple ideas. Haven't we imported many of the invasives at some time? I have so much to learn and I think that I have found some great resourses in this forum...especially the people here!

How's the sunflower house...I'll have to check yours out soon. I'll post more photos of mine on the thread that you started about yours soon.

I was just about to share the links with you both when I saw that Cynthia had already replied to TheLorax.

Off to read the info on Masnobu Fukuoka's passing...I just saw your reply too, Applestar.

Then on to check out Lorax's Tuf Busting...hmmmm.

Have a Good Day all of you!

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August 16 was the full moon, at least in the Western Hemisphere, according to my calendar.

Exactly when the moon passed the "line," I don't know, but Fukuoka-san surely was prepared.

O-Bon is the Festival to which I believe applestar refers.

Cynthia

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applestar
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O-Bon is the Festival to which I believe applestar refers.
That's right! :D
It's generally celebrated on the full moon in mid-August in the Kyoto/Osaka area and south (where Fukuoka-san lived) and in mid-July in the Tokyo area and north. It's also the HARVEST FESTIVAL. Cynthia, whether Fukuoka-san was prepared or whether the ancestral spirits had gathered to escort/welcome him home for his great deeds here on Earth, the thought sure gave me goosebumps :shock:

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cherlynn
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FromThe One- Straw Revolution
All someone has to do to know nature is to realize that he does not really know
anything, that he is unable to know anything. It can then be expected that he will lose
interest in discriminating knowledge. When he abandons discriminating knowledge,
non-discriminating knowledge of itself arises within him. If he does not try to think
about knowing, if he does not care about understanding, the time will come when he
will understand. There is no other way than through the destruction of the ego, casting
aside the thought that humans exist apart from heaven and earth.

TheLorax
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(sigh) It's true. He's gone. Thank you all for checking for me. All my brother could e-mail me was a scan of an article he received which I believe was written in kanji.

I found "A New Earth" at Amazon and there were some reviews-
[url=https://www.amazon.com/review/product/0525948023/?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&tag=thehelpfulgar-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325]Reviews[/url]
Somehow I think "A New Earth" is going to be a much better read than my "awakening" in the Turf Busting thread.

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Applestar wrote:
If you're checking in JennyC, there's was a mention of a farmer who solved his blackberry problem by planting fruit tree seedlings in the middle of the patches and letting his pigs and cattle trample down the blackberries after the fruit trees grew up and started dropping fruit among the surrounding brambles. The livestock manured the trees in the process.
Thanks, Applestar. That does sound like a good idea, though, since my blackberries are inside my garden fence, I can see some drawbacks there! :lol:

Actually, I'll probably be keeping more of the blackberries than I'd intended. I mentioned in another thread somewhere that my neighbor has nuked my blackberry hill (aka his formerly unused pasture) with some sort of broadleaf herbicide. I'm going to have to keep some of the garden berries or go further afield next year.

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cherlynn
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I just finished reading The One-Straw Revolution . To be read and referred to again and again!

The Lorax, thank you for giving me a chance to "listen" to Masanobu Fukuoka.

cynthia_h
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You know how you can read something many times but not REALLY see what's there until the Nth time???

That just happened to me.

There I was, looking through the Introduction ("Building Soil, Building the Future") to John Jeavons' How to Grow More Vegetables... (7th ed.), when it jumped out at me on page xiv:

"Agriculture in the future will probably be a synthesis, a sustainable collage, of:

‣ Grow Biointensive(tm) mini-farming
‣ Agroforestry
‣ No-till Fukuoka food raising
‣ Traditional Asian blue-green algal wet rice farming
‣ Natural rainfall "arid" farming
‣ Indigenous farming...."

I just about dropped the spoon back into the chili when I saw that one!

Clearly, I hadn't looked through this Introduction in the past couple of months. I usually get fixated on Jeavons' Chapter 4: Compost, and just sort of let the rest of the book go...but not tonight.

Yipes. Last night was the second full moon since O-Bon. *Something* made me read that Introduction....

Cynthia

cynthia_h
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What *is* it with these full moons? I think we're an evening, maybe two, shy of the Hunter's Moon???

Saturday afternoon I checked out a copy of The One-Straw Revolution on interlibrary loan.

Last night I opened it.

Two hours later, I closed it.

Not finished, but just had to get some stuff ready for going in to my client's offices this week.

What a teacher, philosopher, aikido master (combining his energy with that of the earth to produce a greater flow), grower, and sensei.

Arigato gozaimashita, Fukuoka sensei.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

Timlin
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I'm going to find One Straw Revolution and read it but if I might?

Another very good book, one that taught me sooo much as I was learning to garden is "The Joy of Gardening" by Dick Raymond.

He expanded my understanding of gardening and I tried so many of his ideas it made gardening an adventure for me.

I still plant my early things, peas, lettuce that sort of thing weeks before anyone else in my area is planting. I always get this frowning reaction as they tell me it makes no sense but I'm always eating fresh produce weeks before they are too!

His green manure ideas were not anything I had understood before reading this book. At one point DH and I had a disagreement about how to get an area ready for lawn. Finally we split the area, he did his side his way and I did my side Dick Raymond's way. We never disagreed after that. DH decided to go Dick Raymond's way too!! :)

If you can find this book its a great read.

cynthia_h
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Beginning in August 2010, the forum hosted a directed group discussion of Fukuoka-sensei's book. The various threads, generally one to a chapter (but not always), can be found [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=46]here[/url].

Cynthia



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