Snowball Bush...

[Grey]

When I first saw this plant, I assumed it was part of the hydrangea family. But I looked it up and found it was part of the highly diverse viburnum family, Viburnum opulus. (there is a Japanese and a European variety)

Well, today in my meanderings around the Internet while flat on my aching back, I found a site that claimed Snowball Bush is a part of the hydrangea family, Hydrangea arborescens. That was on this site:

https://www.jsonline.com/entree/gardening/jul04/245304.asp

I did a little digging and found hydrangea arborescens is Annabelle Hydrangea: https://greenwoodnursery.com/page.cfm/4246.

*scratches head*

But there are 25 other sites that say it's Viburnum.

So is the name Snowball Bush often used in place of Annabelle, or were these folks just confused?


EDIT: now I am more confused: https://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/horticulture/hydrangea.html

https://www.jsonline.com/entree/gardening/jul04/245304.asp

[grandpasrose]

Hi Grey - what confusion!
I have both of these shrubs in my gardens, and they are both beautiful, but do grow differently.

Snowball bush is Viburum Opulus, and has a woody like structure, with jagged edged leaves.

Annabelle is Hydrangea Arborescens, and has more fleshy stems, and the leaves have smooth edges.
Hope this helps!
VAL

[Grey]

I kinda figured somebody had it wrong, and while I intitally thought Snowball bush was part of the hydrangea family, I did notice the difference in the leaf shape that made sense when someone told me it was part of the viburnum family.

But I think it odd that I found two websites, one is the first thing that pops into google when you type in Snowball Bush, the other by a GA horticultralist, claiming it's part of the hydrangea family!

[grandpasrose]

I know what you mean. I googled it just to see, and a couple of sites do have the snow ball bush as a hydrangea. However, in all of my perennial and shrub books, is shows as Viburnum Opulus, with the other as Hydrangea Arborescens - Annabelle.

Sometimes two plants end up with the same "nickname", the same as one plant can end up with several "nicknames". Try "snow on the mountain" for example. You'll get Aegopodium Podagraria, Euphorbia Marginata and Breynia Nivosa - all for the same "nickname". Go figure!

As if keeping track of all these names of things wasn't hard enough!!!
VAL

[The Helpful Gardener]

THIS is why we in the trade use botanical names; too many cossovers in commons and it indeed causes confusion.

There is an Americanviburnum that has only recently gotten it's own species designation (V. trilobum) that could've further muddied the water; I have also seen V. utile listed as snowball bush.

Learning the Latin seems a pain, but in the long run it saves time and aggravation. If you really want to get the right plant, learn the Latin name...

Scott

P.S. Grey, 'Annabelle' is the most common cultivar of H. arborescens in the trade, mostly for it's (much) larger blooms. Also one of our (North American) only native hydrangeas...

[Grey]

Yep, the only other North American native is Oakleaf Hydrangea, from what I have read.

I was wanting both for my gardens, though the Oakleaf will need to stay in a pot, it will definitely not care for the clay around here.

I could have the backyard all in hydrangeas!

I know what you mean about Snow on the Mountain. The one I had in FL looks nothing like what was labeled as such around here!

[grandpasrose]

"Annabelle" is beautiful - especially for those of us who live in regions who normally can't grow hydrangeas. It doesn't seem to be particulary fussy about soil either, and requires little care.
Another hydrangea that seems to be particularly hardy, that I don't know if you have read about is "Endless Summer".
I don't know what hardiness zone you are in Grey, but I have to watch what I get, and these have all done well here - Zone 3b-4a.
Hope you get at least one hydrangea - there is nothing like them!
VAL

[Grey]

Endless Summer has gotten a lot of attention! I haven't gotten one yet, I don't want to plant anything while it's still hitting the high 90s some days. That and I have a hard time justifying the $30 price tag for a 1gal plant! I'm going to ask my local garden supply center to order it in, they're always reasonable with their prices - the $30 is on the ones at Home depot and Lavender Mountain Hardware.

I'm in zone 7a. I think Annabelle would do okay here from what I read.

What's the one that just stays green? There's one down the street from me like that, I don't know if it lacks the nutrition to turn color or if it's a green variety.

[The Helpful Gardener]

'Endless Summer' has changed hydrangeas forever; a good blue hydrangea that's Zone 3/4 hardy and blooms on first year wood. And good to Zone 8 as well; covers ALL the bases...

[Grey]

posted at the same time -lol

[grandpasrose]

Annabelle should do fine where you are! Probably right though- should wait until it's a bit cooler, and the back is better!
I didn't know they were that much now! I got mine a couple of years ago.
I get all my plants at local nurseries, never box stores like Home Depot, Walmart, etc. The box stores have brought in plants that have been forced to reach the point they're at, not gotten proper care since they were shipped, and are not chosen for your specific area, but rather mass shipped to all their stores, regardless of hardiness. Alot of disappointed people thinking they are terrible gardeners, because they couldn't get their magnolia to live through a -35 winter!!!!!

There are a couple of green hydrangeas that I know of - Limelight, and Antique green. There are probably more, there are so many hydrangeas out there!

Scott, my Endless Summer is blooming pink! It's gorgeous!
VAL

[Grey]

Oh I know all about the dangers of buying plants at Home Depot (and forget Wal-Mart, those are the saddest plants I've ever seen). I see zone 10 plants sold here sometimes, and many times while living in FL there were plants there that were listed as perennials... well they are, in zone 6! In zone 9 they perish in the hot summer sun.

I get a little peeved at box stores for this reason. That and as a beginning gardener I quickly realized the associates there know nothing! It made me learn fast that if I wanted a decent garden, I could look around there and learn the names, then go home and look up the plant's true nature and needs before buying.

[grandpasrose]

Exactly!!
Also, your local garden centre has done alot of that research for you already, and only carries plants that will survive in your area. An added bonus is that the money you spend on the plants stay in your own community instead of some head office in some big city somewhere!!
Get the idea this is a pet peeve?!?
Have a lovely day Grey!
VAL

[Grey]

Hey Val - I had one garden center near me and it was awful (I was in a small town). The others were overpriced and had so little selection, even those an hour's drive away, it was all palm trees and stuff. That's why I wound up landscaping my yard in FL from plants bought at Home Depot. (sigh).

Here I have a great one, about a half hour's drive through Shinbone Valley (talk about gorgeous drive!). Great selection, awesome prices and they're both really knowledgeable folks.

[grandpasrose]

I guess I am spoiled! We have several local nurseries here - 8 or 9 I think, and the one not even a mile down the road from me!
I live about six miles out of town, so have to travel to most of them, but it's worth it!
I know it's hard for those who don't have a choice on where they can shop. We also have alot of people who bring plants to our weekly farmer's market as well, and those you know will survive, because they came right out of people's gardens!
Sometimes when I can't find something I really want, (like a rose - the nurseries here just carry the old standbys that I already have), then I end up either ordering from out of town, or getting someone to pick up something I have phoned for 6 hundred miles away!! Many of my roses are from that far.
Oh well, ya do what ya gotta do!!! Gotta love it!
VAL

[Grey]

A MILE from your house? How do you keep from walking over there and buying a plant or two a day? I would have a terrible time!

We have something called Trade Day here in town every Tuesday and Saturday. Tuesdays are better - but there are a lot of gardeners selling their extra plants. I got some of the most unusual varieties of herbs this spring, like purple sage. And they're usually very reasonable.

Oh - and I have heard of Limelight!
I have a neighbor a few blocks down with the most intense purple hydrangea I have ever seen. I can't find an actual hydrangea variety like that, it seems you pick an intense blue or intense pink bush, and adjust the acid accordingly to create purple.
When I'm better, I'm knocking on that lady's door and asking how she did it.

[grandpasrose]

I used to find it a lot harder to keep myself from going down to the nursery that's close to me all the time, but I'm running out of room!!!!! We have an acre, and there is another acre behind us for sale that we have been looking at - then look out!!!

I think the difference in soil is why my Endless summer is blooming pink, when I guess it is normally blue! Pretty anyway!
VAL

[The Helpful Gardener]

Right on the pink and blue thing, Val it's PH for sure...

But Grey, that purple is almost certainly H. macro. 'Hortensia' , the ONLY one I have ever seen that shade and for some reason almost never seen in the trade anymore. Get cuttings!

Scott

[roseJ]

When I first saw this plant, I assumed it was part of the hydrangea family. But I looked it up and found it was part of the highly diverse viburnum family, Viburnum opulus. (there is a Japanese and a European variety)

Hi grey. I'v been searching this very issue today and came across your post, so I joined!

My "snowball bush" has grown to 6- 8 feet tall, so for now, I'm thinking it's viburnum. I believe the hydrangea family is a smaller, up to 5' shrub.
Just by going with the pics and info I'v run into thus far. I also found a Chinese snowball bush that looks similar to mine. {Viburnum macrocephalum)

[The Helpful Gardener]

We look forward to seeing it...

[roseJ]

hmm.. k. how bout this...

I was just told "hydrangea paniculata". Think I'll be doing some research for awhile. Just call it 'Snowball Bush" !!

[The Helpful Gardener]

No image there, Rose...

[roseJ]

I don't know why it redirects the page. The url has to be typed into the address bar. sorry bout that. I need a new place to store pics I guess.

[grandpasrose]

Hi Rose!
Hydrangea paniculata is PeeGee Hydrangea. PeeGee has flowers that grow into a plume or cone like shape, and it's color changes as it is open longer, from white through to pale pink.
Earlier in the thread, Grey and I spent some time sorting "Annabelle" hydrangea arborescens and Viburnum Opulus out. Annabelle has very fleshy stems and smooth leaves, while viburnum opulus has a woodier type stem, and it's leaves have jagged edges.
Also, don't judge by height necessarily, as I have seen some "Annabelle's" well over six feet.
Hopefully without seeing your picture, this will help a bit. Would be nice to have a photo though!
Good Luck!
VAL

[The Helpful Gardener]

Only a few hydrangeas and LOTS of viburnums, many of which go by the moniker "snowball bush". I'll wait for a picture...

[roseJ]

Hi again. than-q guys for all the help and patience. now its on Flickr!!
Hope it works. I'm starting to think that it's more of a Snowball Tree. Any such thing?
[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrose/[/url]

I also posted my hydrangea.. its mixed with purples this year. *sigh*

[grandpasrose]

Great that you sent pictures from so many angles - way easier to get a good look at the plant!
Definitely not "Hydrangea Arborescens Annabelle", and I'm pretty sure that it isn't "Viburnum Opulus" as the leaves aren't right. Not "Hydrangea Paniculata Grandiflora PeeGee" either. On all three of these, not only were the leaves not right, but the quality of the flower was different too. Your flower has a much thicker lush look to it's petals.
I think you were on track when you were thinking about the "Viburnum Macrocephalum", commonly known as "Chinese Snowball Viburnum".

Not sure I've been much help - maybe even confused the issue!
What are your thoughts Scott?

VAL

[Grey]

I agree it isn't Annabelle or PeeGee - but in my search I found the mother of all hydrangea sites! https://www.hydrangeasplus.com/customer/search.php?substring=&in_category=&page=1

I looked up Chinese Snowball Viburnum - I agree it looks similar but to me the leaf formations are off, and, if your plant is blooming now, it can't be viburnum as viburnum blooms in early to mid spring (according to most sites). But then this site:
https://almostedenplants.com/mall/chinesesnowballviburnum.asp
Said it may re-bloom in the Fall. Soo..... maybe it is viburnum.

Whatever it is, it's very pretty and I WANT ONE TOO!

[grandpasrose]

If we ever figure it out!! It's a gorgeous bush, and I love how thick the petals on the flowers are, almost like plumeria.
We'll get it - don't give up!
VAL

[The Helpful Gardener]

I'm not entirely sure we should rule out H. paniculata; it may not be 'Grandiflora', but I'm not sure we can rule that one out entirely either.

I think viburnum and H. arborescens are right out (based on the leaf), and considering bloom time and the general appearance, it's H. paniculata (Just went back for a close-up on the leaf and I'm calling it, for sure...)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

Scott

[roseJ]

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

Scott

Thank You so much Grey, Val, and Scott.
After searching Zillions of Trillions of pics.. I'd have to agree, even though most didn't show the close up of leaves.

May we all never have another snowball situation untill the spring. hehe.
(not likely)

You peeps are great. .........Jo

[grandpasrose]

It's like we invented a new game! Which Snowball do you have?

I'm glad we all sort of arrived at the same place - even though Scott wasn't going anywhere else even if we wanted to!

Enjoy your wonderful bush, they are beautiful, if confusing!
VAL

[The Helpful Gardener]

See why I like scientific names?



HG