Grocery store herbs vs Garden Store herbs.

[Gary350]

Has anyone compared grocery store herbs to garden store herbs?

In the past I have bought herbs at the Amish Garden store. They have several kinds of Rosemary and several different kinds of mint. Mint last year did not grow like mint and did not smell like mint. Year before that mint I bought didn't smell like mint either. Last year I did not buy Rosemary & year before that I'm not sure which rosemary I bought, but it was not good.

Last year grocery stores sold out of herbs so quick I had no choice but to buy herbs at the garden store again. Today I saw these plants so I bought them before they get gone like last year. I hate to baby set plants until April 20.

Grocery store mint seems to be generic mint. Garden store has 15 different kinds of mint.

[imafan26]

I rarely buy herbs at the store. Most of the time the herbs are not that fresh. I grow most of my herbs and have for years. The only ones I don't grow are garlic and some of the herbs or spices that take a lot of processing like arrowroot or tumeric. I have arrowroot. I don't use it much and it is a tedious process to powder it. I use fresh turmeric but for most dishes and medicine, I buy the powders. I also have vanilla, but my vine gets robbed by snails all the time. I am just happy it is still alive.

Fresh herbs taste very different from dried. I don't buy dried basil because it really does not taste the same. I have different kinds of mint, thyme, basil, and oregano. They all have different flavors and uses. I have cilantro now, but it is a seasonal herb that I can only grow from November-April. I am harvesting from my second planting now.

[PaulF]

Our herbs are grown from seeds rather than buying plants. They get started at the same time as tomatoes, peppers and flowers. We have containers for herbs that remain outside during the winter and transplant the seedlings. The new plants are a lot smaller than your garden store bought plants but they soon catch up.

Fresh grown is always better than store bought. Your plants look great and should give excellent results.

[pepperhead212]

The last time I bought herbs was an order in 2018, from Richter's, when I had to replace my rosemary. I also ordered a few other things (min. order 6 plants) that I have not seen around here for a long time. I will say that the Amish market is probably the best place in this area to get herbs, at this time of year, and that's where I've taken a few friends looking to set up a new herb bed (and give them some seeds, if they are up to that). There is an herb farm - Triple Oaks - that is pretty far from here, in Franklinville, but I haven't been there in many years, and those extra things that I got from Richter's (Thyme Scented [Syrian] Oregano and Large Leafed Sage) I got down there back in the 90s, but they were eventually killed with a really cold winter, but when I checked, they didn't have them down there anymore, and nobody else had them, either, and, like tarragon, are only grown from cuttings. In fact, many herbs are like this - even some that flower profusely - as they are either sterile seeds, or there are no seeds! I found this out with that Syrian Oregano - the flowers produced no seeds at all. And that, like sweet marjoram, are two herbs I dry, as they are even better than fresh, like other oregano varieties. I don't even grow the regular oregano; besides being invasive, like mint, the dry has a more intense flavor, and nothing is lost to drying, like with many herbs. If you can smell an herb's aroma really strong, without crushing it or chopping it, it's going to a lot of its aroma into the air when drying, like basil, rosemary, and mint. There might be something left, but nothing like the fresh. Sage is one that is good, but different, when dried. That's because there are two major flavor components, and one is fairly volatile, and a lot is lost when dried, but the other is less volatile, and most is still in the dried. And some of those rosemary varieties have different aromatics, and that's probably why you got something you didn't like. I got that bluish leafed ARP rosemary, back in the 90s; was supposedly hardy down to 0° (it really wasn't), and was not impressed with the flavor. I was glad when I got this Hill Hardy variety, that tasted like the regular stuff.

I've tried a number of mints, but wasn't impressed with most of them, compared to the regular spearmint and peppermint. That chocolate mint was interesting, but not strong enough to get that flavor into something - just smell it and taste it when eaten by itself. And, something that happened, that I'm not sure if it happens to other strange mints, was that after 4 years coming back up in the mint patch, the chocolate aroma got less and less every year, until it just tasted like peppermint, which it definitely started as, since it had the almost round leaves, not the pointed ones, like spearmint. A couple of the unusual mints died in the winter, while the spearmint has been in that patch since the 80s, and nothing kills it! Also, I tried "spearmint" seeds one time, but they almost didn't even taste like mint! My spearmint, like the Syrian oregano, is sterile, though it flowers in the late summer.

Basil is something I start from seeds, unless I have some in the hydroponics that I can root from. Dill I start from seed, and always have a bunch of volunteers. Garlic chives are invasive, so I removed them (not quickly!) a put them out behind my shed! Regular chives are not invasive, so I left them in my herb bed. Sweet marjoram, and that Syrian Oregano, are perennials, and I cut a lot of those down, and dry it all, then cover with a layer of ground up leaves, and when I remove it in the spring, there are a bunch of green leaves starting. I take a couple cuttings of both types, and root them on my back porch, in case they don't make it, but I haven't needed that yet.

Some Asian herbs I get at the Asian market, and root them. I've even seen some of those, as well as some other herbs, sold in pots, at those markets, at this time of year.

[Gary350]

Last year I planted Thai Basil. WOW that is amazing flavor and amazing good smell. I will never grow sweet basin again. Online info said, about 1 week after the plant blossoms and make seeds the plant is at maximum flavor. I pulled the whole plant up by the roots and hung it upside down to dry. Gravity makes all the tar and juices drain from the roots and stem into the leaves. The smell was so strong inside the house wife was choking so I moved the plant outside to the shed. Wow smell was very strong for several weeks. I removed all the dry leaves then crunched then into smaller pieces. I have enough Thai Basil powder to fill a 1 gallon air tight container. I cook with it, I think it tastes very good, wife things it is too strong.

I tried spearmint and peppermint 2 years ago. Sometimes I wonder if the big companies that grow 1000s of plants sometimes get plants labeled wrong. The spearmint and peppermint didn't have much smell. Usually you can rub several leaves in you hands to bring out the smell but nothing much happened. 15 years ago I remember have mint that had such a strong smell we could smell it 30 ft away, but I can't find mint like that anymore???

[pepperhead212]

That spearmint that you described is the type I have, and the aroma is intense! The peppermint is less intense, but different, and still good, and that's what I see in Indian markets, but I see the spearmint (more pointed leaves) and peppermint in the SE Asian markets. Their mints are like what I'm growing, not that stuff I started from seeds, which I wouldn't have identified as a mint, if I had blinders on! I only did that because my spearmint, for some unknown reason, attended aphids out of nowhere, every time when I tried growing it indoors, yet never outside! And peppermint never attracted it indoors, but I don't like it as much, so I tried the seeds. Maybe that's what they sell in your area, that doesn't have the flavor it should.

Maybe a supermarket or other store near you sells the good spearmint in those little herb packets - ridiculous prices for those things, but if it's the right thing, it would be worth it, as the cuttings root very easily. I

I had clusters of spearmint all over in the back, in my first year, in '84, and soon learned why, as it is an invasive plant. However, I had a bed out front, around to the side, on the N, with concrete all around, and a couple years later I put 6 cuttings in there, and it spread like it was on steroids! In 5 or 6 years, the bed was packed, so I dug out all the clusters in the back, and got rid of them
. They send out runners, and choke out just about everything! The relative lack of sun doesn't bother the SM, and the PM does ok, but not as strong.

Here are a couple of photos showing how fast it comes in, after these first plants showing up in March every season.
Mint is growing fast! Some of it is 6 inches tall already, and it is filling out the area, as usual. April 17, 2022 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

Mint patch 6-4 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

This last photo shows some peppermint on the left, with the larger, more round leaves, so easy to distinguish. That section is shorter, because a few years ago I dug up the dirt from about the left 20" of the bed, and put some fresh dirt in, so I could start those peppermint rootings. As you can see, the spearmint is taking over again!
A little bit of mint, 6-10 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

[Gary350]

Can you tell what mint this is in the picture. I don't remember what I bought last year. I remember someone telling me to plant spearmint. I remember the garden store was almost sold out. I don't remember if I bought what was available or ordered seed on Ebay. This plant was very slow to grow, it took most of the summer to get 3' wide and 6' along the patio. It gets about 3 hrs of sun about 8:30 am to 11:30 am then bright shade the rest of the day. The plant was a foot tall when I drover over it with the lawn mower it did not have much smell. The plant grew back and I cut it down several more times. It is growing back now.

Summer before last I planted a different mint in the same location. I think I planted peppermint but not sure. I cut it down several times with the lawn mower and it died.

[imafan26]

I plant a few herbs from seeds, but most of them I plant from starts or cuttings. Rosemary, bay leaves, thyme, oregano can be grown from cuttings if I get to them soon enough. If you can find fresh herbs at the store or farmer's market, you can always root some of the herbs you don't use and grow your own. I have not been able to get rosemary to sprout and lavender is hard to start from seeds. I start those from either a small starter plant or from cuttings. Lavender cuttings from an acclimated plant will do better than from a plant at the market that may not have been acclimated.

[pepperhead212]

Can you tell what mint this is in the picture. I don't remember what I bought last year. I remember someone telling me to plant spearmint. I remember the garden store was almost sold out. I don't remember if I bought what was available or ordered seed on Ebay. This plant was very slow to grow, it took most of the summer to get 3' wide and 6' along the patio. It gets about 3 hrs of sun about 8:30 am to 11:30 am they bright shade the rest of the day. The plant was a foot tall when I drover over it with the lawn mower it did not have much smell. The plant grew back and I cut it down several more times. It is growing back now.

Summer before last I planted a different mint in the same location. No mint sold by the name MINT to be found anywhere but lots of other mints, I think I planted peppermint but not sure. I cut it down several times with the lawn more and it died.

That mint you picture is like what I grew from seed - very dark, not as pointed as the spearmint I grow outside, and it sounds like you had the same experience with the flavor! I would look for some cuttings from a store, that has the really good flavor, and root that, instead of seeds.

I would offer to send you some cuttings, but the problem is that mint is one of the fastest wilters. Maybe root it first, then wrap the roots in wet bounty, then put it in a vacuum seal bag, slightly puffed up? I've sent lime leaves and curry tree leaves, but those are drier types.

[ApertureF11Sniper]

Why is it it seems that everything you get at the grocery store any more is garbage relatively speaking. I heard from a lot of people that my peppers had better flavor then the store bought ones so I imagine with herbs it's the same. If I knew what commercial growers used on plants, chemicals and all I would probably have nightmares about it.And I imagine that impacts the flavor for sure.

I am growing Basil, cilantro and Parsley this year. I love love love Parsley and put it on about everything, I should try it in my coffee. But I am getting my plants from a small privately owned garden center that when you go there the owner and his wife are at the till or working in one of the green houses and they are strictly organic.

[imafan26]

There are a lot of different varieties of herbs. I got Thai peppers from Baker's seeds, but they were different from the Thai basil seeds I had before. I also got Thai basil from them but again it was a different variety and not what I was expecting and it did not have a lot of flavor. There are three 4 different kinds of rosemary prostrate, Tuscan blue, and the common upright rosemary. There are all kinds of flavored thyme, multiple varieties of thai basil, including Rama tulsi which is the basil preferred in Thailand, many different flavors of basil. There are the downy mildew resistant basils, that arfe not only not truly resistant to downy mildew but taste more like Thai basil than sweet basil, broadleaf, variegated and purple sage, moss curled parsleyl, Italian parsley, and a few cultivars of cilantro. There are also several varieties of lavender augustifolia. lavender multifeda, and
lavendins. Then there are mints of which there are also many flavors spearment, peppermint, chocolate mint, orange mint, mohito mint, and some others I can't think of right now.

Some of the herbs like the mints are easy to grow from seed. Others like rosemary are hard for me. I can grow lavender from seed, but it takes so long, I would rather grow them from cuttings. Some basils like African and Ajaka don't really set seed so you have to grow them from cuttings.

I don't buy a lot of store herbs, but I agree they are not as good as fresh ones from the yard. The taste also changes when they get older or after they have bloomed.

[pepperhead212]

There are a lot of different varieties of herbs. I got Thai peppers from Baker's seeds, but they were different from the Thai basil seeds I had before.

I never got any Thai peppers like their Thai basil, either.

Seriously, though, I got Thai basil seeds from a number of places, labeled Siam Queen, which is the variety I have always liked best, and they just weren't the same! Some didn't even have the purple flowers, so I knew right away they were not Siam Queen! I finally got some from Renee's, that was the real thing.

And you want to see a lot of varieties of all those herbs? Here's where I've seen the most, and this is the list of herbs they sell as plants - many are only available this way, not as seeds, and this place has more than any other place I have ever seen.
https://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_ ... 08.2469335

They also have a huge list of seeds.
https://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_ ... 08.2469335

[imafan26]

I bought seeds from Richters before. They have an excellent selection of rare and unusual seeds, but they are expensive. Most places won't ship plants to me, so I rarely buy plants from anyone.

[Gary350]

I bought seeds from Richters before. They have an excellent selection of rare and unusual seeds, but they are expensive. Most places won't ship plants to me, so I rarely buy plants from anyone.

I buy a lot of seeds on Ebay. I look of prices $1.75 to $2 free postage. Seed quantity depends on the seller 50 to 250 seeds. Shipping time is usually 2 days.

[ApertureF11Sniper]

I bought seeds from Richters before. They have an excellent selection of rare and unusual seeds, but they are expensive. Most places won't ship plants to me, so I rarely buy plants from anyone.

We live in a world of Amazon , Fed Ex, UPS and Uber anything how could you live somewhere where you can't get plants?

For me it's easy I live a hour north of Seattle. Out in the sticks but 30 minutes from a big town. But still with all the delivery options.

[pepperhead212]

Hawaii, where imafan26 lives, has incredible restrictions as to things that can be shipped there, especially plants and seeds, due to agricultural considerations - they grow so much there, they have to prevent bringing any insects or diseases into the state. CA, FL, AZ, and some others are also very restrictive about things coming into the states, since they grow a lot, too, but HI is notoriously the worst for this. NJ has some restrictions, but nothing like those other states.

[imafan26]

The main reason for the agricultural restrictions are to protect local crops and natives. We have the highest species extinction rate in the world, which is not a good thing. The native plants and animals here were isolated thousands of miles from land so they evolved with few predators. Feral pigs, cats, goats, deer, and chickens. Invasive plants bought in by the ornamental trade are invading the remaining forests and the native plants and birds that evolved together are dying.

The latest restriction now is on anything in the myrtle family so no eucalyptus plants for instance can be imported, not even from amazon. Amazon will also not ship live plants, beneficial insects, some fertilizers, and forget about a cooking torch. There is a ban that has been in place around Washington state for the shipment of seeds or plants in the brassica family to prevent the spread of blackleg. Companies selling brassica seeds usually say they are selling certified seed.

Pests still manage to sneak in here. Once they get here, it is very hard for us to get rid of them or control the spread as they usually don't come with predators. Hawaii does not want to import predators for pests. If you haven't heard the story about the mongoose and the rat, you should check that out. The last import of a predator that I can remember that worked was the 9 purple ladybugs that was released to kill millions of white flies. We still have white flies and a few more than 9 purple ladybugs. Whether it is a plant or an animal, or insect, once an alien species gets established here, it is hard to eradicate. We don't have a hard frost to kill the bugs or the plants, there are few predators, because we can't import them easily either. Plants that are houseplants and annuals on the mainland can be perennial here. Plant diseases will also spread rapidly. Currently we do have Asian psyllids that spread HLB in the mainland, but currently we don't have the disease. But it is in California. If the disease gets here, it won't take long to spread since the vector is already established.

It is also why I have a hard time participating any seed exchange outside of this island. I have to take the seeds or plant material down to the dept of Ag with all of the packing material. They will inspect it, say yes or no. It has to be packed in front of them, they will stamp the package with the certification. I don't know if I also will have to pay for an export certificate. That is a new thing now. Then I can take it to the post office. Plant material and fresh fruit are also not always allowed off island. You can if they are seeded and frozen and declared. There are restrictions in moving some material between islands as well. I was going to visit my friend in Seattle and I got stopped at the Agricultural inspection station because when they xrayed the bag they thought the Portuguese sausages were bananas.

Most companies and amazon will not ship certain items to Hawaii and I will get a message or a note when I put in my zip code that the item is restricted. If you look at the catalog on some products they will list which states they will not ship to and Hawaii is often one of them. I cannot get live plants, bulbs, living organisms from most sites. If the company does not have an agricultural certificate, it won't ship. Park seeds adds $20 special charge for Hawaii because they have to get a certificate for the shipment even for 1 package of seeds. I can get roses from Jackson and Perkins and some things from Logee's but they have certificates.

[ApertureF11Sniper]

Sad iamafan26.....I understand and all but still sad....... = ( I will certainly no longer complain when something arrives late, at least I get what I order.

[Gary350]

Hawaii, where imafan26 lives, has incredible restrictions as to things that can be shipped there, especially plants and seeds, due to agricultural considerations - they grow so much there, they have to prevent bringing any insects or diseases into the state. CA, FL, AZ, and some others are also very restrictive about things coming into the states, since they grow a lot, too, but HI is notoriously the worst for this. NJ has some restrictions, but nothing like those other states.

AZ dropped many of their restrictions about 30 years ago. There use to be road blocks on all the roads interring the state so inspectors could search vehicles. Most, fruits, vegetables, plants, seeds, were confiscated.

[imafan26]

The airports inspect baggage going out that is Federally funded to protect the mainland crops from what comes from Hawaii. There are inspectors at the airport checking the wheel wells from planes arriving from guam which is overrun with brown tree snakes. There are even dogs trained to sniff out the snakes. However, they can only train the dogs with dead snakes. If the snakes get into Hawaii, there may be a use for the mongoose after all. But it would be devastating for the native Hawaiian birds that nest on the ground and in the trees. Baggage is x-rayed and dogs sniff the incoming bags at the airport and the beagles alert by sitting in front of the source, usually they are looking for fruits. However, military cargo is a problem. The coconut rhinoceros beetle probably came in from the military, it was first noticed on Hickam killing the coconut trees. They did try to eradicate it, but now they have given up on eradication and are trying to just keep it from moving to the other islands. The military are usually the source of the illegal snakes and reptiles as well, although most have either been turned in by the amnesty program or were found dead somewhere. Very few were found alive. Military ships household goods for the military but they are not subject to the same inspections as everyone else. They have their own inspectors but those are concentrating on the brown tree snake and other hitchhikers on military planes and cargo.

The latest is the rose ringed parakeet which is apparently a worldwide problem. It started from a pair of pet birds that escaped on Kauai and it can ruin the fruit in a commercial fruit orchard in a weekend. They only have a 2 year grant which is running out. The birds are smart and don't really take to baits or traps. The best way is to find their roosts and shoot them. This though causes a PR issue because they have to do it at night and not only is it not sporting, but the birds nest in palm trees around resort and residential neighborhoods and people get upset seeing the birds killed that way. The birds have appeared on Oahu, just a couple of miles away. Like most alien pests, they do not have predators. We don't have hawks and they nest in coconut trees where most predators cannot get to them and the grant is running out. The task force that is hired to hunt them won't be funded and the farmers say they cannot protect 65 foot lychee trees with netting which is what the task force is recommending. Their other option is to get a DLNR permit to shoot them on their land as a nuisance pest, but the task force only recommends using professional sharpshooters.

It is why the State wants to keep anything we don't have out. Once something gets in, we may not have a predator and they will get out of control in a very short time. Insect pests are the hardest to find since they are so small and can't easily be detected especially since we have to ship 80% of our fresh food from California every week. The state relies on traps placed in the containers and inspectors from California making sure the produce on their end is clean.

[ApertureF11Sniper]

Here in Washington state last year they found the first ever Murder Hornet and later found more and I think a nest to. So if they find a nest theres probably 2 or 3 others they have not found. They kill honey bees and they are HUGE....

[BloomingBrilliant]

Hey there, fellow herb enthusiast! I've definitely noticed the differences between grocery store and garden store herbs. And let me tell you, it can be a real toss-up sometimes!

Ultimately, the best choice for you depends on your individual needs and priorities. If you just need some basic herbs for occasional use, the grocery store might be fine. But if you're passionate about flavor and variety, and you have the time and space, the garden store is definitely worth exploring.

[imafan26]

It also depends a lot on when you pick your herbs. Most herbs will be better picked in the morning when they have the strongest scent. Fresh herbs should be added at the end of cooking to get the most out of them. I have to use a lot more of the dried herbs and once the bottles are opened, they should be stored in the freezer because they lose quality in a short time. Infusing herbs in vinegar or oil helps to preserve their flavor, but I can't make too much because the oil or vinegar has a shorter shelf life.

[imafan26]

Herbs don't really take up that much space in the garden, Well, I take that back, some can. But for the most part herbs can be tucked in between other plants and most of them make fine container plants and are not demanding for care, so even someone who only has a small space or a sunny window can grow a few. Once you get used to fresh herbs it is hard to have to settle for cut herbs at the grocery store or dried herbs.

I grow ginger, turmeric, galangal, arrowroot, Italian parsley, rosemary, bay leaf, mints (more than one kind), thyme, sage, basil, the ones resistant to basil downy mildew. I have Prospera, a new Rutger's DMR basil. It looks like sweet basil and so far has the best disease resistance but it does not taste like sweet basil, Thai basil, kra prao (Rama) tulsi, Ajaka, Cinnamon (mainly for pollinators), Blue spice for pollinators it doesn't taste that good. I have English, French, Lemon, and orange thyme, Jamaican oregano (Lippia micromera), lavender ( Goodwin creek, l. multifeda (for pollinators), Provence, Otto Quast, l. dentata ) The lavendins and multifeda does the best in my climate.

Seasonally, I can grow cilantro in the cooler months and Shiso and dill in summer.
I also grow roselle in summer.

Some herbs are short lived for me like sage, borage, thyme, oregano, cilantro so I do have to replace them more than the others that only need to be divided.

It is especially good to have fresh herbs growing now because the prices of herbs are soaring and even then some of what used to be common herbs are getting harder to find. For a long time there wasn't any bay leaves so I was lucky I could dry my own. There are a lot of herb blends on the shelves, but some basic herbs are becoming harder to find. Not to mention plain salt.