MaLiorzh
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Green Shiso - seed germination problems - Perilla frutescens

Hi there,

I live on the north coast of Brittany, France - so oceanic climate with mild winters and mild summers. I bought a green coloured shiso plant a few years ago and it did well in my garden. My wife and I adored the taste and used it often in our Asian recipes. The plant eventually went to seed and died off but I was delighted when baby shiso plants came up in late spring the following year. I hoped that this cycle would continue but sadly the year following nothing.

No worries I thought to my self, If they self-seed and grow so easily on their own in my garden then all I have to do is buy a packet of seeds. After some scratching around on the web I also discovered that in parts of the USA shiso is invasive and can even grow up between the cracks in the pavement. People complaining that it self-seeds everywhere!

Thoroughly reassured, I bought myself a big pack of green shiso seeds from a supplier here in France and sowed half directly into the garden in autumn hoping to mimic the natural process. The rest I sowed the following spring onto a peat based compost, half the pots covered with a little vermiculite. I soaked the seeds for 24hrs in rain water before sowing. When sowed on they went to the kitchen table in front of the window. Nothing came up! Not in the pots and not in the garden. This year I tried again with new seeds and still nothing. What am I doing wrong? How can a species that is so invasive in other parts of the world, and that self-seeded once in my garden, by so difficult?

I have had much better luck with the bicoloured Perilla frutescens seeds but the taste of the plants leaves is just not the same. Equally, I can get a handful of different Basil varieties to germinate including tropical Thai basil.

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applestar
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Wow I’m one of those gardeners who have over abundance of shiso because they self-seed/sow very easily, therefore, I cannot tell you for certain what you could do to make them grow. (They just DO, OK? :> ) But for what it’s worth, in my garden, the Japanese green shiso is less prolific (which may explain part of your difficulty) than the red shiso which I REALLY have everywhere. The bicolor one I believe is Korean?

Hmmm.... Only thing I can think of is that they need cold stratification, just because in my garden, winter temperatures can get down to negative single digits °F (-5°F is -20°C). For effective cold stratification, you need to sow the seeds in moistened seed starting mix — I would just use a small community pot maybe 10cmx10cm. Water in to settle then put in a plastic bag and leave it in the freezer for at least 3-4 weeks. They are also later to come up in spring, so probably needs warmer temperatures to germinate, not cool.

imafan26
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I have had the same problem trying to grow shiso in the nursery. It does self seed itself in the garden. This is what I found out. Shiso will not sprout in the cold. Use a heating mat you want to keep it between 70-80 degrees. It also needs light to germinate. Don't plant it, just put it on the surface of the pot. I use community pots so I have a lot of seeds in one pot. Shiso will go to bloom early if it is too cold or the days are too short. I don't know if it is the temperature or the light but I do know when we had all that rain and clouds in February and March the shiso sprouted but quickly started to bloom. Temperatures then were still in the 60's and 70 in the daytime. Temperatures now are in the mid 80's in the day, 70's at night we have a little over 13 hours of daylight. Shiso will grow into a large shrub all through the summer and get between 5-15 ft tall. Then in September-October, when the days shorten again, the shiso will start to bloom again and die back.

I was surprised to find it was a weed in some places. Hawaii also has it as a high weed risk, but I know a lot of people even here who said they have a hard time getting it to grow. I only discovered how to grow it after someone mentioned that shiso always blooms and dies back in the fall and I remembered that it was right. In the cooler parts of the year ( Jan- Feb) and with short days, I could get shiso to sprout but it would quickly flower and usually die. Once it was warmer and the days longer, it would grow and not flower until the fall.

This has been a wacky year for weather again. We have had days of rain and cold fronts and warm spots in between. The shiso spouted during the warm spell, but when the cold front and rain came back for about a week, the shiso started blooming, even the young ones with only four leaves. The older plants got over it and survived even though they bloomed, once the sun came out again, but the young ones were goners. If you can get a plant to grow, it can also be propagated from cuttings which is more reliable for me than seeds.

pepperhead212
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As imafan noted, perilla will root from cuttings, which is what I do every season. Do you have any Asian markets nearby, where you could get some?

Something strange about the plants that I started from cuttings - they don't flower, sort of like tarragon, which I consider a good thing! Anyone else notice this? I always get the green, as I like the flavor better.

MaLiorzh
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Thanks for all that advice. Here in Brittany the temperature rarely goes below 0°C the lowest this winter was a chilly -5°C for a couple of mornings so perhaps using my freezer next year would be a good idea as well as investing in a heating mat.

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applestar
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Why wait until next year? Try it now if you still have seeds. The shiso grows until they fully mature their seeds or frost kills them here.

MaLiorzh
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Well at the end of the day I've got some reasonable plants of the three - green, red and bicolour shiso.

Now to eating!

The green is no problem. I love the taste and have no problem finding uses for it.

As for the red (in fact dark burgundy), to be frank, I see little interest. The leaves are remarkable from an aesthetic point of view but the taste - if you can say it has one - is uninspiring. It might be a good colouring agent for some Asian pickles but I'm not going to be producing any of them anytime soon.

Which brings me to the real reason for this post - the bicolour shiso/perilla. A beautiful plant with the dark green upper side to its leaves and purple under sides. If I didn't know I wouldn't have guessed that it was a perilla like the green and red. The leaves are highly aromatic too, the plant giving off a very agreeable odour when I brush by. However, here is the question: how do I eat it? I can't seem to find any recipes or suggestions for use, internet searches leading only to uses of the green and red types.
Last edited by MaLiorzh on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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applestar
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I think the bi-color ones are Korean, so you might find uses for them in Korean cuisine.

Try mixing the chopped red shiso with salt in a jar until moisture is released, then drying them. I like using this as condiment, crumbled over hot rice. I make a variation by adding same amount of vinegar as released moisture, then squeezing dry and dehydrating. The vinegary/salty liquid is actually refreshing to drink over ice mixed with water when dehydrated, or can be used for quick refrigerator pickling cucumbers, cabbage, cauliflower, etc.

In Japan, the red shiso is used to make cordial (sweet syrup) using similar basic plant material, lemon juice, and sugar ratio as often used for elderflower cordial. Except you do boil the leaves. Lemon juice is added at the end and the purplish syrup turns brilliant wine red. I have to look it up to find what they are called, but the red shiso “juice” contains phytonutrients that helps restore energy and is considered good summer drink to combat heat exhaustion.

MaLiorzh
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Trying a Korean Kimchi style dish with the bicolour leaves, and thanks for the tip about the red leaves.

imafan26
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The red shiso has a bitterness. Usually we put it in Ume juice (ume = salted pickled plums). It can be dried, and used in tea and furikake mix. The green leaf can be battered and fried like tempura, you could try that with the red one.
https://www.chopstickchronicles.com/shiso-juice/
https://cookpad.com/us/recipes/168483-p ... %20perilla
https://cookpad.com/us/recipes/150106-h ... %20perilla
https://wildgreensandsardines.com/2015/0 ... ake-2.html

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applestar
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Tempura green shiso is definitely yum!

...ooh... I wonder if we could make dehydrated chips out of them like kale chips? I think I will try that — thin so maybe sandwich/stack 2 leaves together with a little toasted sesame oil and salt?

imafan26
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I haven't tried chips, we ground the ones that were dried to add to tea or crumbled for furikake. Deep frying the chips until crispy... have not done that. The leaves crumble easily, I don't know if they will hold up, but then curly kale crumbles too.

MaLiorzh
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I've been researching the Korean perilla and although it has the same shaped leaves as my bicolour plants (I.e. not crinkly like the green and red shiso) the Korean plants all seem uni-colour green. I'm wondering if my bicolour plants are in fact some kind of ornamental variety.

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applestar
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I should always verify before posting because my memory is not what it used to be :roll:

The one I remembered as Korean was Vietnamese. There is a Japanese variety as well on this website. They list many names for the same plant in different languages which may help you search for more info.

Red & Green Shiso
https://www.kitazawaseed.com/seeds_red_green_shiso.html

They are both described as culinary but also attractive/ornamental in the garden.

- I have both ruffled and flat green shiso, and my crossed green ones are mostly flat, mostly light green with red overtones... crossed? ones with ruffles are purple/red looking like they LOST the red allowing green to show through ...or maybe it’s the other way around — the green has the chlorophyll overriding the red? I believe that’s how the fall colors appear— loss if green chlorophyll reveals the underlying red or yellow color of the leaves....

Not dramatic dark top/bottom colors like these.

MaLiorzh
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Mine look like the Jeok Ssam Ip

imafan26
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We have a lot of crosses since the red and green readily cross pollinate. The red seems to be easier to grow.



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