Pre-planting Advice Please - Container Option

[al3tte]

Hi guys, I'm new here. Just looking for a little advice.

Just planted my garden over the weekend and am now looking to plant some herbs in a different bed right outside my kitchen door for easy access. I live in the Northeastern US so I know they won't survive winter, however, I was considering planting those that might survive indoors in containers so I could bring them in when it starts to frost.

I want to plant:

- Rosemary

- Thyme

- Oregano

- Basil (Genovese and Opal)

- Flatleaf Parsley

- Catnip

- Peppermint

- Chives

- Cilantro

- Lavender

I know the mint should be kept separate anyway because it will overtake as much space as you let it, cilantro won't make it after harvesting, and lavender I only want for the season, but the top 5 I use pretty much daily so I'd like to try and keep alive through the winter if I can.

What do you guys think? Should I plant them in the ground and dig them up before the frost, or just start them in containers and be done with it? If I go with containers, do you have any pointers on the size (bearing in mind that I'm 5 feet tall) and how many I could get away with keeping in the same container?

Thanks in advance

[imafan26]

Lavender is a perennial. It does have some cold hardiness to zone 5 but you will have to prune it annually. Basil is an annual and it won't last a very long time. Before downy mildew sweet basil used to last about 10 months, then it gets woody and the taste changes after it blooms. Some other basils do live longer but you may not like the flavor. Holy basil and African basils can be short lived perennials for me. The other herbs make good pot plants. Parsley is a biennial and will last a couple of years. Cilantro likes cool weather so it may be possible to grow it as an annual indoors.

I have other herbs that I grow in pots like bay leaf, citrus trees (lemons, limes, calamondin,kaffir), ginger, tumeric, Indian curry leaf (actually that one is in the ground), roselle (annual in the ground spring,summer), shiso (summer annual) cilantro cool season only, borage(summer), fennel (year round mostly to attract beneficial insects), cumin, fenugreek, nasturtiums, lemon grass, figs, hot peppers, daylily fulva, gogi, Jamaican oregano, Mexican tarragon, edible marigold, calendula (spring and early summer), culantro, pandan (it does not like pots, it is better in the ground), comfrey (does not like pots either), vanilla. Most of the tropical herbs and spices will grow as houseplants in temperate regions and summer outdoors.

[Allyn]

I have dill, basil, parsley, peppermint, thyme, par-cel, and oregano in containers, each in a 5-gallon SiP (sub-irrigation planter). I know folks keep herbs in cute little window-sill containers, but that's not enough for the way I use them. It's pouring rain outside atm so I can't run outside to take pics, but I found a pic showing the basil plant:


The basil is the foreground container on the left in the picture. There is par-cel and parsley on the right, but they're behind the pepper plant. I put one or two plants per container -- two basil, two parsley, two par-cel, two dill, one peppermint, one thyme, two oregano -- but they're fairly big containers. If you go with smaller containers, I'd probably only put one plant each.

I use Mel's mix -- one part peat, one part coarse vermiculite, and one part consisting of a five-part compost -- so the containers aren't terribly heavy, but there is a water reservoir in the bottom so they can be a little hefty to move when they're full. I have arthritis in my shoulder and hands so if I had to move them all myself, I'd probably go with 3-gallon containers. I can move the 5-gallon containers myself, but it isn't pretty and I make sure no one is looking (or I get my man to do it; that's what they're for, yes? to move/carry heavy things and open jars.).

[rainbowgardener]

Northeast US isn't very specific as to cold hardiness zone. You could be anywhere from zone 3 in Maine to zone 7 in DC/ Philly area. The zones just tell you how cold it gets in winter where you are, which tells you what things will survive outside for the winter. If you don't know your zone, you can look it up by zip code here: https://garden.org/nga/zipzone/

Rosemary: tender perennial. May survive outside in zone 7 (depending on your variety, some are hardier than that). North of that you have to bring it in for the winter. It will over-winter, but it isn't the easiest thing to do.

Thyme: hardy perennial, unless you actually are in Maine, you can leave it out for the winter, perhaps with some winter protection.

Oregano: hardy to zone 5, north of that bring it in for the winter. Should over winter easily.

Basil: as noted already, an annual, needs to be started fresh every spring.

Parsley: is actually a biennial. It sprouts and grows the first year, and then puts out flower stalks and goes to seed in the second year and then is done. Hardy to zone 6

Catnip: very hardy perennial. Should be able to over-winter outdoors almost anywhere in the US.

Peppermint: hardy perennial to zone 4 (but different varieties have different cold tolerance, so check yours). Probably can overwinter outdoors.

Chives: very hardy perennial, overwinter outdoors.

Cilantro: annual, start it over in the spring

Lavender: half-hardy perennial. You need to check your variety. Depending on whether you have English, French, Spanish etc. there's a wide range of cold tolerance for lavender. English lavender is common and is the most cold tolerant. English lavender is listed as hardy to zone 5. But I grew it and over-wintered it outdoors in zone 6. It did fine most of the time, but died when we had a much colder than usual winter. So I think zone 5 would be pretty borderline.

So depending on where you are, the ones you might bring in for the winter are mainly rosemary, oregano, and lavender. The ones you can over winter outdoors will definitely do better in the ground than in containers. The ones you bring in for the winter should be in pots to start with. All of these are Mediterranean herbs that like sandy soil with good drainage. Mix your potting soil half and half with cactus mix and they will like it much better. You will put one plant each of rosemary, oregano, and lavender, in a decent sized pot (at least 12" by 12").

[imafan26]

It is true for most things living long term in pots, bigger is better. If you have larger pots, invest in a dolly, to make it easier to bring them inside.

[al3tte]

Wow, thank you, all of you! I added my zone to my profile location (Sorry, didn't know I could do that!) to avoid any confusion in the future. I grew up in Arizona and moved across the country in 2010, always had large and prolific gardens in and out of doors, but never had to worry about overwintering - at least not in the same way - until I moved here! I love living here, but gardening is definitely different. Last year, after just keeping what I could in tiny pots for short amounts of time in an apartment setting and then giving up all together for a while, I finally moved into a house with several nice little beds, including one just off of the kitchen, and a 10 x 15 foot plot fenced in on one side with a barrel that collects rainwater. Our first garden produced some killer tomatoes and cucumber, this year we're trying some different things, including a little bit of companion planting, so fingers crossed!

Now that I've had a little bit of experience with the soil I want to get a herb garden going. As a former chef, now home-cook and food-blogger, I really like to use fresh herbs year round as much as possible. So this year I've really been trying to focus on getting them established at the right times in order keep what I can indoors for the winter.

Ya'll have been extremely helpful, so thank you! I'm going to get it all going in the next week or so and I'll try to update with pics when things start to grow

[rainbowgardener]

you are very welcome! Looking forward to the pix!

[imafan26]

I grow a lot of herbs in containers for the kitchen. I have become quite spoiled and I really don't like to use the dried herbs unless I don't have a choice or they are bay leaves. I really miss not being able to grow basil because of basil downy mildew. I haven't make Thai food in a long time because of it.

[rainbowgardener]

imafan - would your basil be OK if you grew it indoors under lights?

[Rayan]

hi, I know several people in NE area (New Jersey, Virginia etc) who grow Curry and Tulsi (a type of Basil) successfully outside from around April/May through to Sept/Oct, and bring the pots inside for winter. Some people struggle to keep them alive when over-wintering, but I think the key thing is to cut back around 30% of the plant when bringing back in during fall, and to not water them too much. I got mine last year and so far they survived the VA winter - but looking 500% happier now outside! Herbs are amazing - good luck with yours!

[al3tte]

Thanks, Rayan!

I have a curly parsley and a sweet mint that I was able to keep alive in a cool part of my home with minimal watering all winter. they grew slowly, but still fast enough for me to use regularly. I'll be replacing the curly with flat-leaf parsley when it goes to seed this year but I just planted all my lil seedlings and got two baby bay laurels that I'm very excited about for this season!

[imafan26]

I have grown basil in a green house but the spores are in the air so it still gets contaminated. I also live in a wetter part of the island so it rains here almost every night. I can't grow any plants in the house. I do have some plants on the lanai. It is open on the sides so it will help with the rain but not with the spores in the air.

My mom lives in a drier and hotter place and she has been able to grow basil. She cannot get seeds from her plants, and they aren't making seedlings so I bought seeds. I did not want to do that since downy mildew will transmit on seeds. Last time, I saw downy on the plants and told her to pull them all out and toss them. She planted more seeds, I have to see if the basil is still good.

It still is not the same because I would actually have to do a lot more planning. I used to be able to go out in the yard anytime to pick up the herbs I needed for Thai dishes.

I had basil, ginger, chili peppers, kaffir lime, and lemon grass in the yard. These are the basic herbs and spices for most of the Thai dishes. I usually also had tomatoes and Asian greens for the soup. I just got another pak wan. I had one before, but I lost it. Like chayote, sweet potato leaves, and NZ spinach, you can't eat it fast enough; does not take a lot of care and it produces a lot. The tips have a slight peanut butter taste, the young tips are used in Malaysia as a stir fry vegetable.

https://hihort.blogspot.com/2011/11/vers ... k-wan.html