How Do You Determine If It's Native or Not

[imagardener2]

If you would like to be taught how to try to determine whether or not a plant is native or not, would you please start a whole new thread with that in the subject line so anyone else who may be interested can find suggestions on how to go about ferreting out this information without digging through [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7054]this thread[/url]. I know I'd sure be interested in what tools others are using and why.

Here it is, Lorax.

Teach me!

[TheLorax]

I tried to check your profile to find a thread where I remembered you had posted a whole slew of really nice photos. I can't find it. I remember one of the plants you photographed was Clerodendrum ugandense. Let's use those plants to start and I'll show you how I would begin try to figure out whether any of those plants were native to me and how I'd try to figure out if any were native to you.

Your profile says you are from Three Rivers TX. What county is that?

[MaineDesigner]

If you Google flora and the name of your state or region you should get some useful links. The problem with many of the botanical sources for the layman is that they assume you have already have identified the plant or are able to key it out using a taxonomic dichotomous key. Especially since it is Texas based you may find this site useful: [url]https://www.wildflower.org/[/url].

[Garden Spider]

If you would like to be taught how to try to determine whether or not a plant is native or not, would you please start a whole new thread with that in the subject line so anyone else who may be interested can find suggestions on how to go about ferreting out this information without digging through
[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7054]this thread[/url]. I know I'd sure be interested in what tools others are using and why.

Here it is, Lorax.

Teach me!

My definition of "native" is plants that were here before Europeans arrived on the continent.

How I began was to find some good field guides to the native wildflowers, trees and shrubs in my region. I looked through each book before purchasing to determine whether or not it was something that would be very useful, moderately useful, or kinda-sorta useful. (even the kinda-sorta types are good for a quick reference when hiking, if they're small enough to fit in a back pack). I was lucky enough to find one that listed plants as native (Pre-European), introduced or iintroduced-invasive. You should be able to find local field guides in your local Barnes & Noble or Borders, or order them from Amazon.com Your local library will be a valuable ally--if they don't have a book on the shelf, they can get it for you from anywhere in North America by interlibrary loans.

I also googled relentlessly. I tried to find out what was native, what was introduced, what was invasive. I found a gardening website devoted to gardening solely in the Pacific Northwest (Rainyside.com). You may be able to find a similar website devoted to your area. I also checked out the County Extension Program webpage for my county. You can find one for your county by googling "[county name] extension program." I also checked out the National Wildlife Federation, Audubon, etc, since what I wanted to do was start a garden for wildlife, butterflies and birds. I looked up the local Native Plant Society, the county Noxious Weed Board, and my own county's Department of Natural Resources (they have a section devoted to gardening with native plants; your county may or may not have this resource).

I talked to people--on line, in person at nurseries, at garden shows, master gardeners, amateur gardeners with more experience than I had. I asked questions--lots of questions, and many "stupid" questions--until I got answers I needed.

And . . . I still do all those things. Refer to books (it helps that I'm addicted to books), google is my best friend, and I still ask a lot of questions. I'm always adding to my knowlege.

Does this help, or have I totally missed the boat?

[imagardener2]

Your profile says you are from Three Rivers TX. What county is that?

Live Oak county

you may find this site useful: https://www.wildflower.org/

Thank you!

At [url=https://www.wildflower.org/alternatives/index.php]PlantWise[/url] I looked up [url=https://www.wildflower.org/alternatives/?symbol_sn=&symbol_cn=LACA2]lantana camara[/url] and it listed it as an 'Invasive Species', but said "Native Status: Native to U.S." and it's listing at [url=https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LACA2]PLANTS Profile[/url] showed it's distribution in TX. It then went on to offer a 'Native Alternative' that's [url=https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LAIN2]PLANT Profile[/url] shows a distribution in only FL. Huh!?!?' [img]https://geocities.com/d_m_g_s/emoticons/Huh_anim.gif[/img]

[Garden Spider]

Your profile says you are from Three Rivers TX. What county is that?

Live Oak county

you may find this site useful: https://www.wildflower.org/

Thank you!

At [url=https://www.wildflower.org/alternatives/index.php]PlantWise[/url] I looked up [url=https://www.wildflower.org/alternatives/?symbol_sn=&symbol_cn=LACA2]lantana camara[/url] and it listed it as an 'Invasive Species', but said "Native Status: Native to U.S." and it's listing at [url=https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LACA2]PLANTS Profile[/url] showed it's distribution in TX. It then went on to offer a 'Native Alternative' that's [url=https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LAIN2]PLANT Profile[/url] shows a distribution in only FL. Huh!?!?' [img]https://geocities.com/d_m_g_s/emoticons/Huh_anim.gif[/img]

This exerpt from a PDF file might clarify things:

Range.—The native range of lantana extends from
Bermuda, the Bahamas, the Greater Antilles, the
Lesser Antilles, through Trinidad and Aruba. On
the mainland, it is native to coastal areas of the
United States from Georgia through Texas and
from northern Mexico to South America including
Brazil and Peru and probably Bolivia, Paraguay
and northern Argentina. Lantana has naturalized in
most suitable habitats in tropical and subtropical
Africa, Asia, and Australia. Most of the world’s
tropical and subtropical islands including the
Hawaiian Islands, Guam, Pitcairn Island,
Madagascar, the Juan Fernandez archipelago,
Reunion, and the Galapagos have naturalized
populations. This colonization has occurred largely
during the last century.

Sounds as if it's native to Texas, but not Florida, and introduced into Florida, has become a noxious weed there.

[doccat5]

Actually, the site shows that there are various specie of lantana that have been introduced to various southern states and are extremely weedy in character.

However, lantana camara is in not native to TX, it is however, native to Puerto Rico.

[imagardener2]

This exerpt from a PDF file might clarify things:

Sounds as if it's native to Texas, but not Florida, and introduced into Florida, has become a noxious weed there.

The point of my post was not to ask if lantana camara is native to Texas, (which it is not although it has naturalized here; it's [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lantana_camara]native to Central & South America[/url]), but to note the conflicting info out there and that the one site was suggesting the substitution of one non-native for another non-native.

[TheLorax]

I'm sorry for having been silent imagardener2.

I can't answer that question for the following reason, you garden in Texas where there are several species of Lantana that are actually native which I believe would be more appropriate to use for the butterflies that would be present in your area rather than the Lantana involucrata that is native to Florida as you noted.

Something to consider would be that the website recommending the L. involucrata is on the big www and isn't capable of communicating one to one with the people visiting to sort things out as we all are now in this thread. They're somewhat at a disadvantage from that respect. Other thoughts would be that the Ladybird Johnson site might be recommending that particular species because at least it is native to the continental US (FL) and they do appear to want to promote native species? It's somewhat of a stretch but is it no inconceivable that seed of that species could have ended up in TX via a hurricane? Perhaps the authors took into account the range of native butterflies using that particular plant as a host and determined them to be present in other areas of the US not just FL? There are species of NA butterflies that derive benefits from the existence of the L. involucrata as opposed to the L. camara which would be of greater benefit to the butterflies on the continents where it co-evolved for thousands of years? I strongly suspect at least one reason why the Florida native species was recommended was because the authors took into account that L. camara was formally identified as being a non-native invasive in many regions of the US and determined that suggesting the L. involucrata (which happens to be easier to track down and purchase) would be a more environmentally responsible alternative given it is a Lantana and butterfly gardeners want to use lantanas in their butterfly gardens.

The species native to Texas are:
Lantana canescens
L. achyranthifolia (might even be a locally native species for your county)
L. urticoides (probably locally native to you)

Hope this helps a little bit. We'll hopefully carry on with your original question at a later date.

[Toms92gp]

If you have a local University with a good horticulture department, then they may have a website listing native plants. I know N.C. State University does for NC. They have a really good website for identifying plants of most types and they also have a page the just lists native plants to NC. There page actually helped me alot in picking out plants for my property. I know its not for your area, but this is what NC State has for NC.
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/index.html

[EarthFirstNatives]

The wildflower.org is an excellent site, as is the North Carolina oneThe USDA also has a database on plants and will tell you if and where a plants are native to. the link is

https://plants.usda.gov/

Also check you state native plant society, or New England Wildlfower Society, Conneticut Botanical Society are all good resources for self study on native plants.

I have used all, and find them good.

raven

[raptor]

This is how I determine nativity, Plants of the Chicago Region, by Floyd Swink and Gerould Wilhelm

USDA site is good

NE wildflower society is fair to midland