Gardening with Native Plants in the NYTimes

[TheLorax]

Hey Garden Spider, if you edit your post by adding to the original content as well as by adding a few more paragraphs, would you please note that you did so or maybe just start a whole new post. Helps to keep track of the sequence for the sake of others.

As for non-native species for wildlife . . . why not?

Douglas Tallamy's new book answers these questions and many more quite nicely however there are many other authors who do too and Sarah Stein comes to mind as being an easy read.

You can most certainly use non-native ornamentals for wildlife, it's your property. Let's just leave it as I personally don't believe it to be appropriate to promote the use of non-native plants in a native plant forum regardless of what you choose to do on your own property and the many whys. I don't know how others feel about this however the administration has provided many areas of this site to discuss non-native plants used in landscapes so why do it here?

Best wishes to you with your non-native ornamentals such as that dwarf cattail.

[webmaster]

I think that a different view is healthy, and that Garden Spider's brought up some interesting points for consideration. Regarding harvesting from public lands, reminds me of an article in the New Yorker from last year about the Matsusake harvest done every year in Oregon, some [url=https://www.newyorker.com/online/2007/08/20/slideshow_070820_bilger]photos available here[/url].

[Garden Spider]

Hey Garden Spider, if you edit your post by adding to the original content as well as by adding a few more paragraphs, would you please note that you did so or maybe just start a whole new post. Helps to keep track of the sequence for the sake of others.

I apologize for that--I'm still learning how all the functions work in this forum. I should have familiarised myself better on how to post here before jumping in. Patience is not one of my virtues, I'm afraid.

You can most certainly use non-native ornamentals for wildlife, it's your property. Let's just leave it as I personally don't believe it to be appropriate to promote the use of non-native plants in a native plant forum

Again, I apologize. It may not be the appropriate forum for the discussion of non-native plants; however this point was raised by someone in this forum, and I thought it better to respond here, rather than in another forum, out of context.

And again, I want to say it is not my intention to criticise someone's POV--differernces are what make discussions interesting. I respect everyone's opinion.

[Garden Spider]

I think that a different view is healthy, and that Garden Spider's brought up some interesting points for consideration. Regarding harvesting from public lands, reminds me of an article in the New Yorker from last year about the Matsusake harvest done every year in Oregon, some [url=https://www.newyorker.com/online/2007/08/20/slideshow_070820_bilger]photos available here[/url].

Thanks for posting that, Webmaster. I had completely forgotten about the mushroom harvesters. Families in the Pacific Northwest often partially support themselves by gathering wild mushrooms.

[NEWisc]

The idea that non-native plants benefit wildlife is a popular, but misguided, belief. It is grounded in a short term, site specific view. If looked at in a longer term, habitat/ecosystem wide view it's flaws become readily apparent.

Let’s say that a gardener plants ornamental “Opâ€

[imagardener2]

People should be free to grow non-native ornamentals, but they should not feel comforted in the illusion that they are benefitting wildlife or ecosystems.

I'm really lost here. I live in deep S Texas and I'm really not sure what's native here and what just grows in the bar ditches and fence rows. Personally I have a huge variety of plants in my yard (a small portion can be seen [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7263]here[/url]) and few are what I would classify as native to this area. I have a 16+ varieties of [url=https://www.floridata.com/ref/L/lant_c.cfm]lantana[/url] which I suspect are native here as they grow wild in the fence rows. I also had numerous varieties of [url=https://www.floridata.com/ref/R/ruellia.cfm]ruellia[/url], but they've tried to take over so I now have only 2 and I believe both are hybrids.

As I try to attract flutterbys and hummers to my yard I have, among quite a few other things, 2 varieties of [url=https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/wildseed/21/21.4.html]butterfly weed[/url], [url=https://www.floridata.com/ref/C/cuph_ign.cfm]cigar plant[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kniphofia]red hot pokers[/url], aloe, [url=https://www.paghat.com/sagecoralnymph.html]salvia 'Coral Nymph'[/url], 3 varieties of [url=https://www.floridata.com/ref/D/dura_ere.cfm]duranta[/url] and a couple [url=https://www.floridata.com/ref/C/cler_uga.cfm]clerodendrum ugandense[/url]. My guess is few ~if any~ of these are native here, but the bees and hummers can't get enough of them.

Am I wrong for having them in my yard?

[webmaster]

>>>Am I wrong for having them in my yard?

What's wrong and right is subjective. For the most part people want to do what's best. What's best is clearly defined by many things and not everyone is going to agree on those defining characteristics.

If we really wanted to be earth friendly we'd give up our cars (or at least our SUVs) and walk or ride bicycles or drive more economical vehicles. However the reality is that there are limits to how far individuals can go in not hurting the environment.

I do my best to leave a small footprint. I don't go so far as become a vegetarian (much less a vegan), but I do buy grass fed and low environmental impact meat. For some, even that is not an option for a variety of reasons, or is not going far enough.

Gardening with native species is an ideal. It works for a variety of reasons and is recommended and promoted by this forum. HOWEVER, just like all ideals there are going to be variations and limits to how far anyone can take it, and for some it's not that far. And I think that's ok.

With that in mind, it's probably helpful to be aware of what species are considered a threat in any particular state. Conveniently there's a government site that has a [url=https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/unitedstates/state.shtml]list by state of invasive species information[/url].

There is also [url=https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/international/canada.shtml]invasive plant information for Canada[/url] and [url=https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/international/europe.shtml]Europe[/url], including links to this website about [url=https://www.nonnativespecies.org/]non-native species affecting Great Britain[/url], [url=https://www.invasivespeciesireland.com/]Ireland[/url] (Ooooo! What a cool looking website! ), [url=https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/international/australia.shtml]Australia[/url], and [url=https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/international/nz.shtml]New Zealand[/url].

[NEWisc]

My post was not intended to determine "right" or "wrong", only to clarify a common misconception. One of the consequences of this misconception is that responsible, ecologically friendly gardeners don't always get the best information on how to achieve their nature friendly goals. And as the webmaster pointed out, this is not a simple black and white issue. It's complex, and there are tradeoffs to be dealt with.

I will say that the best way I know of to benefit wildlife is to use as many native plants as you can. The native plants and the insects that frequent them in any area have a natural rhythm that has evolved over thousands of years. They both have adjusted their life cycles to the local temperature, moisture, and other weather events of that area.

I know just about zero about the native flora and fauna in south Texas, so I can't comment on your list of plants. I wouldn't suggest that you get rid of any of your plants, unless they are on the invasive list that the webmaster cited. One strategy that you might consider for the future is to use some native plants to replace any plants that you loose to age or the elements. There are some great native plant organizations in Texas, one of them might be able to help you become more familiar with the native plants in your area.

Keep in mind that you already have the most important thing when it comes to our natural world - you care!

[imagardener2]

You said...

they should not feel comforted in the illusion that they are benefiting wildlife or ecosystems.

I'm just trying to understand what you mean by it.

Am I hurting my environment/ecosystem by having plants in my yard which aren't native, but from which butterflies and hummers feed? Am I just neutral, neither helping or hurting?

If I'm going to add plants to my environment I would like that effort to have the maximum impact when possible or at least not do harm. I'm not as well versed on natives as others here, but I do desire to improve my skills in that area.

Teach me. Please.

[TheLorax]

A very wise man once shared with me that there is one point often lost in the shuffle; Native plants are a distinct group because they are the only group of plants that have a positive impact on their local ecosystem no matter where that ecosystem is located. Not negative, not neutral, but a positive impact. No other group of plants can make that claim. It's a much more meaningful claim than the "because I like them" or "because they are pretty" or "because they grow well in my garden" rationale given so frequently for wildflower as well as other non-native and naturalized species.

If you're looking for maximum impact species, native flora for native fauna is always best and there's irrefutable science out there to support this claim. It boils down to that natural rhythm mentioned earlier that comes from species co-evolving over tens of thousands of years.

If you would like to be taught how to try to determine whether or not a plant is native or not, would you please start a whole new thread with that in the subject line so anyone else who may be interested can find suggestions on how to go about ferreting out this information without digging through this thread. I know I'd sure be interested in what tools others are using and why.

[NEWisc]

Please remember that I'm talking about the long term, habitat/ecosystem wide, impact of plant choices. And that my purpose was to dispel a common misconception [illusion] that any plant that attracts bees/butterflies/hummingbirds/etc., is necessarily good for the environment. It's more complex than that. There are intricate relationships that exist between the flora and fauna of an ecosystem. Changing one part affects many other parts.

I'm not suggesting that gardeners give up enjoying their ornamental plants. What I am suggesting is that gardeners, who want to dedicate part of their gardening efforts to improving things for wildlife, would be much more successful in achieving that goal if they used plants native to their area. Each gardener can make things a little better; the combined efforts of many gardeners can have a significant impact. I don't think that many gardeners are made aware of this when they ask for plant recommendations from nurseries or other gardening information sources.

I wish I could be more helpful for your specific situation, but I'm just not familiar with the flora and fauna of Texas. I do think that TheLorax's suggestion of starting a new thread on becoming familiar with the native plants of an area is a very good idea. I will try to contribute to that thread if I can.